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Model Rail / Heljan Class 11 0-6-0DE

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1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Bit like Panniers then, seen one you've seen 'em all.

 

Says someone with an American thing as his avatar....

 

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Says someone with an American thing as his avatar....

 

 

 

Jason

Surely everyone can spot a EMD GP40M-2 :dontknow:

 

 

 

 

 

Don't tell Jason I looked it up on Fallen Flags, a wonderful web site. :secret:

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Funny thing is the only US model railway item I've ever bought was GP40s.

 

Only for their chassis as I used them under Langley kits when I modelled in N gauge.

 

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Surely everyone can spot a EMD GP40M-2 https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_dntknw.gif

 

 

 

 

 

Don't tell Jason I looked it up on Fallen Flags, a wonderful web site. :secret:

 

Just to be pedanticly facetious, its an MK GP40M-2 as its a Morrison Knudsen rebuild rather than an EMD product ;)

 

You can tell from the lack of traditional SP light package, or plating over thereof on the nose and positioning of the SP which points towards a later addition to the fleet and the lack of a later extended anticlimber points firmly at a rebuild. The ditch light mountings are a dead giveaway for the MK jobs of the later rebuilds and the white line along the walkway denoting a 'Speed lettering' liveried machine which dates the image quite well.

 

Alltogether easier to identify than the average GWR samealike. :jester:

 

Back on topic though (I could REALLY bend an ear when it comes to tunnel motors and all the batch variations by the way)...

 

Oh who am I kidding?! It'd be rude of me not to order the second to last diesel shunter built by the LMS, and lifelong Saltley incumbent, 7128. Having said that; would 7129 not be a better candidate? My logic behind this suggestion is thus...Being the very last LMS build before BR continued, 7129 led a near identical life to 7128 with both spending their entire lives at the same shed on the same duties, and as the last of a particular era it holds that tiny bit more historical significance. In the same breath, a model of 7130M with 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' lettering would also be lovely to see, it representing the first of the new era under nationalisation. In either case they're easy to renumber from the chosen subjects, but their significance does warrant a look at for production models.

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It is a pity that they are doing Basra again as the Longmoor loco which was previously produced by Bachmann for Modelzone, although this will obviously be a more accurate representation. They could do the other one Bari, which was the one that was involved in the serious accident on the railway involving a number of fatalities.

RB

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2 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

It is a pity that they are doing Basra again as the Longmoor loco which was previously produced by Bachmann for Modelzone, although this will obviously be a more accurate representation. They could do the other one Bari, which was the one that was involved in the serious accident on the railway involving a number of fatalities.

RB

I think you've probably explained the reason for the choice. (CJL)

 

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49 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

I think you've probably explained the reason for the choice. (CJL)

 

 

It does not stop models of the RMS Titanic appearing!

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Just now, Mark Saunders said:

 

It does not stop models of the RMS Titanic appearing!

 

 

I was on about that just the other day mark.  Titanic must be one of the few objects of mass loss of life that seems perfectly ok with people to have lots of mainly tat memorabilia. 

The other one but by far less is enola gay 

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54 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

I think you've probably explained the reason for the choice. (CJL)

 

So why is it the model in WD green?

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10 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

 

I was on about that just the other day mark.  Titanic must be one of the few objects of mass loss of life that seems perfectly ok with people to have lots of mainly tat memorabilia. 

The other one but by far less is enola gay 

Oddly as the prices of 'Titanic' memorabilia went up a lot of new entrants in the ephemera and memorabilia market started hunting down stuff connected with the 'Lusitania'.   Seems that things involving major loss of life have a particular (ghoulish?) fascination.   I suppose a model railway equivalent would be 46202?

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2 hours ago, Paul.Uni said:

So why is it the model in WD green?

Because that was the livery carried by the prototype, I guess? (CJL)

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Currently on the Industrial Railway Society website there are scans of the Ainsworth Collection being posted showing  a MoD one in green and ICI ones!

 

Mark Saunders 

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9 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Oddly as the prices of 'Titanic' memorabilia went up a lot of new entrants in the ephemera and memorabilia market started hunting down stuff connected with the 'Lusitania'.   Seems that things involving major loss of life have a particular (ghoulish?) fascination.   I suppose a model railway equivalent would be 46202?

 

To be honest I think of them as objects and separate to the disaster. Usually portrayed in happier times. Unless you are modelling the actual disaster which is very rare in model railways. 

 

I think that military modellers have a different view. Most of the planes, tanks, ships, etc. would probably be blown up, shot down or sunk at some point in their existence. Soldiers shot on the battlefield.

 

People have different viewpoints. Neither is right or wrong. I think you should be tolerant if someone is upset though. But I also think you shouldn't be judgemental if someone does model realistic battle scenes or a ship sinking.

 

Funnily enough when I grew up in the 1970s/'80s my grandparents talked about the Titanic as if it was yesterday. It was still a big thing in Liverpool at the time as most of the crew was from here. Now they have an awful hotel based on it. Offensive? I don't know. It's certainly a bit tacky.

 

http://www.irishseashipping.com/features/sinkingtitanic120113/sinkingtitanic200113.htm

 

 

 

 

Jason

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9 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

To be honest I think of them as objects and separate to the disaster. Usually portrayed in happier times. Unless you are modelling the actual disaster which is very rare in model railways. 

 

I think that military modellers have a different view. Most of the planes, tanks, ships, etc. would probably be blown up, shot down or sunk at some point in their existence. Soldiers shot on the battlefield.

 

People have different viewpoints. Neither is right or wrong. I think you should be tolerant if someone is upset though. But I also think you shouldn't be judgemental if someone does model realistic battle scenes or a ship sinking.

 

Funnily enough when I grew up in the 1970s/'80s my grandparents talked about the Titanic as if it was yesterday. It was still a big thing in Liverpool at the time as most of the crew was from here. Now they have an awful hotel based on it. Offensive? I don't know. It's certainly a bit tacky.

 

http://www.irishseashipping.com/features/sinkingtitanic120113/sinkingtitanic200113.htm

 

 

 

 

Jason

Going somewhat OT (sorry) the overwhelming majority of the Titanic's crew came from the Southampton area - a consequence of which was that some streets in that town lost a very high percentage of their adult male population as a result of the sinking.  There is a seemingly full list on Wiki (sorry) - but it does reflect what was shown in a number of official lists and contemporaneous newspaper reports based on the home addresses of crew members at the time of the sinking.  it is of course quite possible that some of those involved had moved from Liverpool to Southampton with their families;  the population of Southampton had grown by 33,000 between 1907 and 1911 as people moved in from all over England to seek work as new liners were based there.   724 members of the crew of RMS Titanic (which totalled 885 according to the official Report) came from Southampton and of their number 549 died.  The highest percentage (and number) of crew deaths was in the Victualling Dept where 397 died.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_of_the_RMS_Titanic

 

Back to diesel shunters (probably?)

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Going somewhat OT (sorry) the overwhelming majority of the Titanic's crew came from the Southampton area - a consequence of which was that some streets in that town lost a very high percentage of their adult male population as a result of the sinking.  There is a seemingly full list on Wiki (sorry) - but it does reflect what was shown in a number of official lists and contemporaneous newspaper reports based on the home addresses of crew members at the time of the sinking.  it is of course quite possible that some of those involved had moved from Liverpool to Southampton with their families;  the population of Southampton had grown by 33,000 between 1907 and 1911 as people moved in from all over England to seek work as new liners were based there.   724 members of the crew of RMS Titanic (which totalled 885 according to the official Report) came from Southampton and of their number 549 died.  The highest percentage (and number) of crew deaths was in the Victualling Dept where 397 died.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_of_the_RMS_Titanic

 

Back to diesel shunters (probably?)

Proof that the Titanic can find its way into any discussion! I've had a morbid interest ever since trying to prove whether or not an ancestor of my late wife was among those lost (subsequently proven to be untrue). Having been to the cemetery in Halifax (in 2012) and to the Titanic Artefacts exhibition, the tragedy is not something I would personally want a 'memento' of, yet crazy money is paid for the smallest bits of original paperwork. Getting back on topic, I don't know why Basra was chosen and not Bari. However, Basra as a place name will be more familiar to people thanks to more recent history and also there is a tendency among railway and model railway people to avoid locomotives associated with tragedy or said to be 'jinxed'. In recent years we've seen locomotives renumbered to avoid certain numbers, we've seen plans to issue a limited edition great train robbery loco dropped, and - given the choice, it's no surprise that a Class 11 directly associated with loss of life was not selected. (CJL)

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Going somewhat OT (sorry) the overwhelming majority of the Titanic's crew came from the Southampton area - a consequence of which was that some streets in that town lost a very high percentage of their adult male population as a result of the sinking.  There is a seemingly full list on Wiki (sorry) - but it does reflect what was shown in a number of official lists and contemporaneous newspaper reports based on the home addresses of crew members at the time of the sinking.  it is of course quite possible that some of those involved had moved from Liverpool to Southampton with their families;  the population of Southampton had grown by 33,000 between 1907 and 1911 as people moved in from all over England to seek work as new liners were based there.   724 members of the crew of RMS Titanic (which totalled 885 according to the official Report) came from Southampton and of their number 549 died.  The highest percentage (and number) of crew deaths was in the Victualling Dept where 397 died.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_of_the_RMS_Titanic

 

Back to diesel shunters (probably?)

 

Most of the crew from Southampton were people from Liverpool who had moved down from Liverpool by the shipping company. You weren't putting a bunch of farmers on your new ships. You wanted trained people who knew what they were doing.

 

Even the captain was from Liverpool and he probably hand picked all his main men.

 

 

Jason

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59 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Most of the crew from Southampton were people from Liverpool who had moved down from Liverpool by the shipping company. You weren't putting a bunch of farmers on your new ships. You wanted trained people who knew what they were doing.

 

Even the captain was from Liverpool and he probably hand picked all his main men.

 

 

Jason

Clearly written by an expert on Southampton. 

 

1894 saw Southampton become the principal port for British peacetime troopship movements. 1895 saw the largest dry dock in the world constructed. In 1899 on 20th October five troopships were despatched between 2:30pm and 4:30pm, with nine vessels berthed and dealt with simultaneously, in addition to the ordinary shipping of the port. 

In July 1890 the Empress Dock opened, the only port in Great Britain at which vessels of the deepest could enter or leave at any state of the tide. No idea how these untrained farmers who didn’t know what they were doing managed these sort of capers. 

 

Fortunately Southampton was saved by the arrival in 1907 by some people from Liverpool. I often wondered why Cunard, and Canadian Pacific and P&O transferred there services there, why Imperial Airways flew from there with all these untrained farmers who didn’t know what they were doing all over the place. Who’da thought it needed a bunch of scousers to show them how to do it properly..

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3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Most of the crew from Southampton were people from Liverpool who had moved down from Liverpool by the shipping company. You weren't putting a bunch of farmers on your new ships. You wanted trained people who knew what they were doing.

 

Even the captain was from Liverpool and he probably hand picked all his main men.

 

 

Jason

Captain Smith was from Joiner's Square, Hanley, Stoke on Trent; mind you, not an area reknowned for its seamanship, the largest nearby body of water being the Cauldon Canal.

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A bit late coming to the 'it was involved in a fatal crash so shouldn't be modelled' subject, but a recent purchase threw up the fact that this didn't stop Hornby producing Black 5 45274 (R3453). For those unaware, that is the locomotive which overturned at approximately 55-60mph on the sharp 30mph curve through Sutton Coldfield station, killing 17, injuring 25 and demolishing the northbound platforms. As tragic as these sorts of events are, they are often lost in the mists of time and largely forgotten, sometimes a model serves as a reminder to events which deserve to be remembered...as long as its done in good taste.

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