RMweb Gold JohnR Posted July 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 12, 2019 5 hours ago, LMS2968 said: Don't take too much notice of that: the Ivatt tanks were 2P but the tender engines were 2F; this didn't mean that they didn't work passenger trains and the tanks were passenger only. Unfitted goods were not common and tended to be short, the train shown by the link from Metr0land is running as Class E: Express Freight with at least four fitted wagons at the head; or Express Freight unfitted but with limited load. You won't find 40 mineral wagons behind a Class 4 tank, not because of problems pulling it but stopping it again once on the move. Both the 2-6-2 tank and the 2-6-0 tender Ivatt engines were classified as 2MT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 30 minutes ago, JohnR said: Both the 2-6-2 tank and the 2-6-0 tender Ivatt engines were classified as 2MT Not in LMS days. 'Locomotives of the LMS - Official illustrated list of all LMS locomotives specially arranged for engine spotters', and published by the LMS, lists the tanks - then only Nos. 1200-1209 - as 2P, and the tender engines - 6400-19 - as 2F. And they should know! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Even more S&DJR naughtiness Cheers Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 (edited) Btw;- It is Spetisbury and post-closure. It is a train of obsolete RS vehicles withdrawn from Blandford Camp on their way (hopefully) to oblivion. The vehicles include Humber 1ton comms and a WW2 vintage Morris General Utility Cheers Jack Edited July 13, 2019 by Jack Benson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 9 hours ago, RedgateModels said: I think there was a reluctance to use tank engines on freight workings towards the end of steam due to the lack of tender wheels to assist the braking effort. Possibly the tendency to use longer trains to increase efficiency having an effect? I'm sure they were used though I'm sure you'll find that most steam drivers would only use the loco brake for stopping unfitted trains. Very often tenders were only fitted with handbrakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 I've never come across that. To the best of my knowledge, in the days when tenders where fitted with handbrakes only there were no brakes on the loco at all. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Even more S&DJR naughtiness Cheers Jack 11 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Btw;- It is Spetisbury and post-closure. It is a train of obsolete RSR vehicles withdrawn from Blandford Camp on their way (hopefully) to oblivion. The vehicles include Humber 1ton comms and a WW2 vintage Morris General Utility Cheers Jack Are those Humbers radio trucks? If so, there's an excellent chance that my father was the officer who waved them goodbye from Blandford, whilst breathing a deep sigh of relief. He loathed the things and was pleased to see the back of them. Not that he was much keener on the Austin K9s which survived in service much longer. Mind you, the only British military vehicles he was ever remotely complimentary about were the Matchless G3 motorcycle, the Bedford RL truck and the Land-Rover (but not the Air Portable). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 Some of these are empty stock workings but they are examples of Standard 4MT tanks on non-passenger stock: 4-MTT_RaynesPark by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 80139_StDenys_20-8-65 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 80036_Euston by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 80133_CJ_30-4-66 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 1 hour ago, PatB said: Are those Humbers radio trucks? If so, there's an excellent chance that my father was the officer who waved them goodbye from Blandford, whilst breathing a deep sigh of relief. He loathed the things and was pleased to see the back of them. Not that he was much keener on the Austin K9s which survived in service much longer. Mind you, the only British military vehicles he was ever remotely complimentary about were the Matchless G3 motorcycle, the Bedford RL truck and the Land-Rover (but not the Air Portable). Pat B, My era was Bedfords, Land Rovers, Steyrs and various German specialist vehicles. The British Army's procurement policy was never user friendly for those who actually did the work. The comms cull was the result of a general minaturisation led by SRDE, removing the need for large (big target) comms vehicles and by the mid 60s vehicle depots were being cleared. Many Humbers morphed into the infamous 'Pigs' so familiar to viewers of the evening news in the 70-80s I have no idea of the ulimate destination of the vehicles from Blandford, at one stage Ludgershall may have been used as it had a railhead and was still open as a RAOC depot in the 60s but pure speculation. Cheers Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bike2steam Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 In early '64, Feltham had about half a dozen standard 2-6-4T's on it's books (ex Brighton), not bad for a freight loco shed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted July 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 13, 2019 Feltham was used to 2-6-4Ts, having used the W's on transfer work for many years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkscratching Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 Looks like I've got pretty much free range as it turns out, thanks for some great shots and info... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkscratching Posted July 13, 2019 Author Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Pat B, My era was Bedfords, Land Rovers, Steyrs and various German specialist vehicles. The British Army's procurement policy was never user friendly for those who actually did the work. The comms cull was the result of a general minaturisation led by SRDE, removing the need for large (big target) comms vehicles and by the mid 60s vehicle depots were being cleared. Many Humbers morphed into the infamous 'Pigs' so familiar to viewers of the evening news in the 70-80s I have no idea of the ulimate destination of the vehicles from Blandford, at one stage Ludgershall may have been used as it had a railhead and was still open as a RAOC depot in the 60s but pure speculation. Cheers Jack Humber Pigs !... I had the lovely job of being 'brakesman' in one of these lumps that was being towed, 10 miles or so...peering out of the little vision slit thing you could see virtually bugga all, glad I never had to drive one in anger ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 13, 2019 Share Posted July 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Jack Benson said: Pat B, My era was Bedfords, Land Rovers, Steyrs and various German specialist vehicles. The British Army's procurement policy was never user friendly for those who actually did the work. The comms cull was the result of a general minaturisation led by SRDE, removing the need for large (big target) comms vehicles and by the mid 60s vehicle depots were being cleared. Many Humbers morphed into the infamous 'Pigs' so familiar to viewers of the evening news in the 70-80s I have no idea of the ulimate destination of the vehicles from Blandford, at one stage Ludgershall may have been used as it had a railhead and was still open as a RAOC depot in the 60s but pure speculation. Cheers Jack All sorts bought these second-hand:- https://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p938759029/h7d3ac0#h7d3ac0 I recollect Matchbox did a nice K9. There was a base near Uttoxeter (Marchington?) which acted as a disposal/ auction site, with a lot of vehicles arriving by rail; apart from the obvious 4x4s, there were lots of things like Morris 1000 Travellers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
602Squadron Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Robert Hendry's "Goods Wagons in Colour" (P36) has a colour shot of 80072 on 27/7/64, at Fenny Compton on a rake of iron ore hoppers conveying chalk for the Greaves Sidings Blue Circle Cement works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 The area that I’ve delved into most deeply is the Oxted/East Sussex complex of lines, and use of 4MT on goods seems to have been “rare to never”, because (a) they were prime passenger power, being both powerful and fast enough, (b) because there were plenty of goods engines available in the form of radial tanks and C2X, and (c) the goods services from the London end radiated from Norwood, which only had goods engines and shunters anyway. In this area the 4MT was direct successor to classes that were very distinctly passenger-only, Atlantic tanks, Pacific Tanks, and Fairburn 2-6-4T (4P, not 4MT, for some reason). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 On 13/07/2019 at 19:22, Fat Controller said: All sorts bought these second-hand:- https://ccmv.aecsouthall.co.uk/p938759029/h7d3ac0#h7d3ac0 I recollect Matchbox did a nice K9. There was a base near Uttoxeter (Marchington?) which acted as a disposal/ auction site, with a lot of vehicles arriving by rail; apart from the obvious 4x4s, there were lots of things like Morris 1000 Travellers. Dad's opinions on the various military vehicles he encountered through his long career were always diverting. BSA M20 - "Overweight slug" Triumph TRW - "Oh God" Commer Q4 - "Ghastly" Humber 1 Ton- "Why on earth would anyone buy one of those?" Austin Champ - "Bl**dy lethal" Bedford MK - "Dual fuel and they're useless on either" Land Rover 110 - "Not as soldier-proof as the SIII" Hillman Hunter Mk2 - "I wish we'd sold them to the Iranians instead" Can-Am Bombardier 250 - "I think buying one would be an error" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 I used to work with someone who did his apprenticeship at Rolls-Royce: he spent most of it stripping down and rebuilding the (supposedly 'multi-fuel) Champ engines that the Army returned under warranty. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porkscratching Posted July 14, 2019 Author Share Posted July 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, Fat Controller said: I used to work with someone who did his apprenticeship at Rolls-Royce: he spent most of it stripping down and rebuilding the (supposedly 'multi-fuel) Champ engines that the Army returned under warranty. A Rolls Royce engine seems a bit over the top for an army run about doesnt it !...a mate had a couple of wrecked champs, I think they got 'Frankensteined' into one good vehicle in the end ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatB Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Porkscratching said: A Rolls Royce engine seems a bit over the top for an army run about doesnt it !...a mate had a couple of wrecked champs, I think they got 'Frankensteined' into one good vehicle in the end ! At one stage the British army attempted to standardise on the RR engine as a sort of modular concept. 4- pot in the Champ, 6- pot in the Humber(?) and, IIRC, a straight-8 version which went in things like the Alvis Stalwart. The 4-pot was certainly potent enough to propel the Champ at speeds at which it became rather easy to invert, hence Dad's "lethal" comment. And now I'll try to shut up and let the thread get back on topic ;). Edited July 14, 2019 by PatB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted July 14, 2019 Share Posted July 14, 2019 Back on track Has anyone mentioned the reluctance of 'management' to use BR 4MT 80000 for longer trip workings? Peter Smith mentions this issue in Footplate over the Mendips, as the coal capacity was just about on the limit for B to B, would this have been a factor for goods workings? Cheers Jack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium NCB Posted July 14, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2019 They weren't around for that long, but as they displaced older locomotives they could be found on any suitable service as required, including both freight and passenger. Versatile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted July 15, 2019 Share Posted July 15, 2019 On 12/07/2019 at 20:41, LMS2968 said: Not in LMS days. 'Locomotives of the LMS - Official illustrated list of all LMS locomotives specially arranged for engine spotters', and published by the LMS, lists the tanks - then only Nos. 1200-1209 - as 2P, and the tender engines - 6400-19 - as 2F. And they should know! This changed in the early 1950s but I can't remember exactly when. At Kew there is a freight WTT which has the Special Notices bound into it. From memory it came from Euston House (funny the things you can remember and those you don't!). In the notices it states exactly which locos were to be considered mixed traffic (which was most) and how they were to be designated. Although my research was restricted to LMR it has subsequently become clear that the other regions had very different ideas on the implementation of this concept e.g. The Black 5 was just '5' on the LMR but 5MT on the ScR and the WR and ER, NER didn't bother. The SR just went it's own way e.g. The Ivatt 2-6-2T became 2P 2F and later 2P2FA. Regards 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2019 Another on the Southern https://www.anistr.com/-/galleries/photos-of-british-railways-1948-1968/photos-of-br-standard-steam-locos/br-standard-4mt-class-2-6-4t-steam-locos/-/medias/8154d3b3-2e74-4888-ba36-b57fb78f1444-standard-4mtt-80016-pokesdown 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 15, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2019 This one is a bit longer. https://www.anistr.com/-/galleries/photos-of-british-railways-1948-1968/photos-of-br-standard-steam-locos/br-standard-4mt-class-2-6-4t-steam-locos/-/medias/ad52f984-993e-4096-be05-ac6251998393-standard-4mtt-80139-southampton-central 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now