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Porkscratching

BR 4MT tanks on Parcels & Goods ?

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Though mainly I guess a suburban passenger use loco, did these get used to any degree on parcels ( or goods) traffic ?

I haven't been able to find any photos of this occurring...rule No1 could apply naturally, but would like to be feasible!..your thoughts gents would be most appreciated...

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No reason why not. A Class 4 locomotive is a Class 4 locomotive, designed as a machine for pulling trains. The constraints that matter relate to its weight, gauge limitations (and the BR standard locomotives were design to be go anywhere machines in gauging terms) and operating range. Clearly, a freight loco without train brakes or screw couplings could not be put on a passenger duty, but a passenger loco can be put on a freight duty.

 

Jim

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They were used for goods on the Ballater branch i believe. No idea where i saw that particular photo but its a start !

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I think there was a reluctance to use tank engines on freight workings towards the end of steam due to the lack of tender wheels to assist the braking effort. Possibly the tendency to use longer trains to increase efficiency having an effect?

 

I'm sure they were used though

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Thanks chaps, I would think it likely that they would have been used, but just the total  lack of pics made me wonder.

The braking issue is a good point though, possibly parcels may be more viable than goods, as parcel trains being somewhat more akin to passenger stock anyway, and were often not that long..

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Not a Std but Dumfries also used their single Fairburn on a pick up goods at least once. 

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Sorry to state the obvious but...

They were designed for freight, which is why there were 4MTs, not 4Ps.

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Photos of goods and NPCS trains tend to be rare, as photographers saved their film for the more exotic trains, it's not like the digital photography world of today where you can snap away to your hearts content.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Sorry to state the obvious but...

They were designed for freight, which is why there were 4MTs, not 4Ps.

Don't take too much notice of that: the Ivatt tanks were 2P but the tender engines were 2F; this didn't mean that they didn't work passenger trains and the tanks were passenger only.

 

Unfitted goods were not common and tended to be short, the train shown by the link from Metr0land is running as Class E: Express Freight with at least four fitted wagons at the head; or Express Freight unfitted but with limited load. You won't find 40 mineral wagons behind a Class 4 tank, not because of problems pulling it but stopping it again once on the move.

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Posted (edited)

I just found this one too, so we have a couple of precedents, I also saw a couple of fuzzy images that looked like a few passenger coaches with a cct van behind the loco, so I don't feel to bad now!

As stated above the class is defined MT as in mixed traffic!

Tho as Lms2968 suggests, you wouldn't be hauling half a miles worth of coal wagons!

_20190712_142942.JPG

Edited by Porkscratching
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Shrewsbury occasionally used its Std 4 tanks on pickup goods services to Hereford. There's a picture of 80136 at Leominster on such a train in Hereford Locomotive Shed by Steve Bartlett.

 

Justin

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It may have been a question of preference - the roster clerk thinks the 4MT tank is better for certain jobs, & there are suitable locos for the freights.

 

There is a picture of a 4MT on a military freight on the S&D - may have been Blandford after closure of the rest of the route

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42 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Sorry to state the obvious but...

They were designed for freight, which is why there were 4MTs, not 4Ps.

 

I thought they were designed for Mixed Traffic hence 4MT.

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38 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

 

The resident of Llandysul beat me to it - my first thought was ....Look to the Cambrian.....

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26 minutes ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

I thought they were designed for Mixed Traffic hence 4MT.

& mixed traffic covers freight as well as passenger, so that's being a little picky.

 

Some 'things' are designed for a certain purpose but are found to be useful for something else, which is why some 3F Jintys ended up being push-pull fitted.

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Not a Standard but their Stanier ancestors were known to work the Dudley parcels from New Street at times. 

29 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Some 'things' are designed for a certain purpose but are found to be useful for something else, which is why some 3F Jintys ended up being push-pull fitted.

And the LMS in their wisdom had 100 built with steam brake only. Why provide vacuum gear when only being used in a Shunting yard?

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On the Southern where I lived - Staines - we had Q1s on the pickup freight, replaced by Ws (SR 2-6-4T) which in turn were replaced by standard 4MT tanks. I remember one fly  shunting (correct use of a term which is usually considered illegal, not loose shunting) at Twickenham in front of a platform full of customers one Saturday afternoon near the end of London area steam.

 

Don't overlook that what was normal for donkeys years was all thrown in the air towards the end of steam all over the place, to use the remaining more modern locos. In the brief years of my teenage ECS into Waterloo changed from M7s to WR Panier tanks to Standard 3 and 4MT tanks. As is usual with such questions period is important.

 

Paul

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I don't think the MT designation is in doubt, just that use on goods appears to have been by exception apart from a few locations.

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Posted (edited)

It's an oddity but I've seen more archive cine of Class 4 tanks (of all types) with freight and parcels than stills.

 

Regards

Edited by PenrithBeacon
Correction!

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They were used on freight on the southern section of the WCML.

As far as Tring for sure and they probably ventured further north.

Bernard

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Thanks gents, it seems I've got a fair bit of latitude particularly in the 'death steam' period certainly.!

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Posted (edited)

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