Cavan and Leitrim Coaches

[rue_d_etropal]

Thought I should start a new thread. With all this talk of the Cavan and Letrim Railway, I got hold of as many of the drawings published as I could find. The drawings of the composite coach in MRN 1953 are superb, not surprising given that the railway and the coaches still existed at the time so no need to base drawings on photos alone, and the museum in Birmingham also helped. Wish other drawings were as good.

I have just finished my design for a basic coach body for 3D printing, in many scales from 2m/ft up to 1/32 scale. The railings on tha balconies are the only tricky part so made it with and without them. I may do a separate one , but it will only be worthwhile for larger scales, as the railings are not very thick anf possibly better done in metal.

I can easily adapt design to create the all third. MRN article says it was based on same design with different window postions, so just a reflection of the 3rd class end . The conversion to a brake coach should also be easy, and pabnelling can be removed from design. The original coaches had lights in the clerestory, so that can be done . 

[Porkscratching]

So what kind of price are you looking at for one at 7mm scale for example?

It doesn't matter about the railings as these would be quite nice to scratch build anyway..

Edited July 15, 2019 by Porkscratching

[rue_d_etropal]

Its all on my website now, but for 1/43.5 scale abut £100, depending on exchange rate plus postage from Shapeways.

 

Personally, if I was modelling in this scale range, I would opt for 1/50 scale as it could use either EM or OO gauge track,etc, and 5ft 3in gauge could use 32mm gauge.Another advantage of the smaller scale is the price for the basic coach goes down to £75 approximately.

Edited July 15, 2019 by rue_d_etropal

[Porkscratching]

Thanks for the info..good luck with those..

[rue_d_etropal]

One of my aims is to get more people modelling something different,not just relying on manufacturers to supply r2r models, and to think of modeling in different scales. Remember that Gordon and Maggie Gravett's Pempoul is built in 1/50 scale and it is now a lot easier thanks to 3D printing.

[rue_d_etropal]

I've added the other 2 versions of the bogie coach, both in late condition, and the pasenger brake van in condition it was up till end of 40s. May add them all in original condition, ie birdcage roof and clerestory lights. And then there is coach 7L, which I hope to be abe to work out ftom known dimensions and good photos. Other items of stock are on list, after I have found drawings, but have some wagon drawings and ex T&D coaches.

[Compound2632]

I had the scale / gauge discussion when a 7 mm/ft scale, 14 mm gauge Lynton & Barnstaple layout was exhibited at Warley some years ago. I made the point that 16.5 mm gauge is bang on for 1/36 scale 2 ft gauge (prototypically 23.5 in gauge) - 1/3 in/ft or 8.467 mm/ft - and would give models with just that bit more heft. The killer point made in reply was that there is so much ancillary material available in the conventional scales - figures were mentioned - that would be much more challenging to make in the non-standard scale, compared to building track. 

 

Of course as Simon says, if such things are 3D printed, that ceases to be an objection!

Edited August 2, 2019 by Compound2632

[Ravenser]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I had the scale / gauge discussion when a 7 mm/ft scale, 14 mm gauge Lynton & Barnstaple layout was exhibited at Warley some years ago. I made the point that 16.5 mm gauge is bang on for 1/36 scale 2 ft gauge (prototypically 23.5 in gauge) - 1/3 in/ft or 8.467 mm/ft - and would give models with just that bit more heft. The killer point made in reply was that there is so much ancillary material available in the conventional scales - figures were mentioned - that would be much more challenging to make in the non-standard scale, compared to building track. 

 

Of course as Simon says, if such things are 3D printed, that ceases to be an objection!

 

In that particular case wouldn't military 1/35 scale material be available?

[rue_d_etropal]

1 hour ago, Ravenser said:

 

In that particular case wouldn't military 1/35 scale material be available? 

the range in 1/35 has bloomed over past 5 years with quite a lot of non military models including figures.  I would say the range for 1/35 is in many ways better than for 1/43 especially as most of the kits are plastic and easy to adapt. Just look at Miniart website https://miniart-models.com/

[HSB]

On 15/07/2019 at 12:55, rue_d_etropal said:

Its all on my website now, but for 1/43.5 scale abut £100, depending on exchange rate plus postage from Shapeways.

 

Personally, if I was modelling in this scale range, I would opt for 1/50 scale as it could use either EM or OO gauge track,etc, and 5ft 3in gauge could use 32mm gauge.Another advantage of the smaller scale is the price for the basic coach goes down to £75 approximately.

I have thought for some time that 1/50th would a sensible scale to model Irish railways with 32mm working out at exactly 1600mm and EM working out as near as dammit to 3'. You also have all the lorries and buses readily available in this scale along with figures and architectural bits and pieces.

[Regularity]

Plus 1:50 is near as makes no odds 6mm=1’, so the mental arithmetic is fairly straightforward for marking out.

 

But here’s a radical thought: choose the scale you wish to work in, then set the track gauge to suit. Track is not difficult to make, and with a bit of care, neither is anything else. Most commercial wheelsets other than Romford drivers use parallel axles, so wheels can be pushed in, pulled out or even put on new axles.

 

For larger scales, 1:25 or 12mm=1’ is perfect for 5’3” on gauge 3 track, as the track gauge is 63mm...

[Compound2632]

Simon, I'd have expected you to be advocating 1" gauge for Irish standard gauge modelling?

[Regularity]

Paul Greene’s Irish outline uses the correct 63/64”, which as it happens is 25mm.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Regularity
Autocorrect corrected: “lute S scares t“

[rue_d_etropal]

The old traditional way is to adapt gauge to traditional scale, but building track and wheel sets are beyond the skills of many railway modellers. If it was that easy 21mm gauge would be widely used , not 16.5mm as is used.

[Compound2632]

... but one doesn't see much Irish railway modelling at pi mm / ft.

[Regularity]

8 hours ago, rue_d_etropal said:

The old traditional way is to adapt gauge to traditional scale, but building track and wheel sets are beyond the skills of many railway modellers. If it was that easy 21mm gauge would be widely used , not 16.5mm as is used.

Skills are acquired through repetitive practice.

The issues are trepidation and the extra time involved, and a desire to use existing RTR chassis. 

For diesels with bogies and rolling stock, new wheelsets are an easy replacement. For steam locos, it can be more difficult.

It’s just a question of mindset.

 

[rue_d_etropal]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

Skills are acquired through repetitive practice.

 

It’s just a question of mindset.

 

Sadly that is a view I totally disagree with. Fine for a few, but for the many it is just not the case, otherwise everyone could be a brain surgeon! Everyone is different, and starts from a different point. I am better at seeing things in 3 dimensions, but don't have an ear for music(but still love it). Some can play any instument they try, but get lost in their own home.

How ever much you hit a square peg it still won't fit into that round hole. It certainly is not just a question of mindset. Unfortunately those with the mindset that any 'skill' can be aquired.don't seem to have the 'skill' to see that not everyone can aquire those skills, however hard they try.

It's an old discussion idea, one which has been talked about many times, and obviously some are not prepared to accept reality. The hobby is for the many not just the few.

 

Quote

.. but one doesn't see much Irish railway modelling at pi mm / ft.

I am sure I was not first to come up with idea of using 3.14mm/ft(not quite pi ), but it is something I am trying to promote. It is still a compromise(unless you plan to do everything 'dead' scale, but can make use of what are probably the two cheapest scales/gauges, ie OO/HOand N . 15mm wargaming items are pretty close to 1/100 scale so close enough,and range is increasing. 3D printing is just the icing on the cake.

[Compound2632]

On 03/08/2019 at 10:52, rue_d_etropal said:

I am sure I was not first to come up with idea of using 3.14mm/ft(not quite pi ), but it is something I am trying to promote. It is still a compromise(unless you plan to do everything 'dead' scale, but can make use of what are probably the two cheapest scales/gauges, ie OO/HOand N . 15mm wargaming items are pretty close to 1/100 scale so close enough,and range is increasing. 3D printing is just the icing on the cake.

 

We all choose our compromises - I'm living with being 7" under gauge.

 

Dividing 16.5 mm by 5.25 ft gives 3.142857... which differs from pi by 4 parts in 10,000; 3.14 mm/ft is out by 9 parts in 10,000 - over twice the error! (How can you live with that )

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Compound2632

[Regularity]

On 03/08/2019 at 10:52, rue_d_etropal said:

Sadly that is a view I totally disagree with. Fine for a few, but for the many it is just not the case, otherwise everyone could be a brain surgeon!

That’s a depressing and limiting view of humanity. Sadly, it seems to be the attitude of the many.

Making your own track involves learning how to file, and how to solder. Neither of these are particularly difficult tasks, and can be reasonably mastered in just a few sessions.

Becoming a brain surgeon involves rather more than that. A detailed knowledge of neurology, exquisite fine motor skills, and a degree in medicine as a starting point. The comparison between making your own track and being a brain surgeon is insulting to the latter, and at best facetious with respect to the former.

[Porkscratching]

I think people should be inspired to have a go, otherwise we'd still be living in caves eating raw food!

Examples of work others have done can be very motivational and make one think " I could try that"  I suppose we all have different attitudes, some would just think they could never do whatever, and wouldn't even attempt it.

..however , I reckon the more you try, the more you'll find you can do..we've all got talents, possibly in areas we've not even thought of, if you don't try you'll never know!