What's on your S Scale Workbench?

[MarshLane]

3 hours ago, Lacathedrale said:

I'm blessed to have my own office (10' x 7') and a workshop (8' x 8') but still finding it hard to figure out a layout in either space. I guess it's that old chesnut of 'oh, if only I had another 9 inches...'

 

Can appreciate that view!  I am incredibly fortunate that from next year I gain a new 'railway room' of significant size for the 'big project' - The layout that will be the long-term one, albeit split into numerous little achievable projects that link together.  The length is available, just limited on the width - hence my query about minimum radius.  But with what you and Steve have commented, I am confident that I could achieve what I wanted long-term in S.  I know I can in 4mm (just not happy with the size of the trains!) but not in 7mm (those damm radii again!).  Hence giving serious thought to S, along with a growing desire to scratch build things.  The old adage of less is more always comes into effect, just problematic when you know what you want to do, just don't have the space to do it!

 

Thanks everyone for your input ... time to go and think in a darkened room, which could mean formulating a plan - oh dear!

 

@Timber - the etched frame with the 3D print boiler looks nice.  What have you done for the hornblocks? Fixed or HLK versions?

Rich

Edited July 27, 2020 by MarshLane
spelling

[Regularity]

10 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I am only talking about the tyre here (boss thickness varies with the type of wheel) but Gibson P4 wheels are 2.2mm thick and therefore too narrow for 1:64. I'm still struggling to understand the problem here, most of my S scale experience is in NZ 3'6" gauge but Gibson wheels work perfectly.

I wouldn’t personally use P4 wheels, either, Mike. One of my locos came with P4 wheels already fitted, and they were a ****ing disaster. They were replaced with SSMRS brass castings fitted with turned steel tyres, and a lot of problems went away. P4 wheels have a fat flange, which happens to be about S scale, but everything else is 1:76.2 to suit the “metric mix”. The Manchester/Pendon “EM fine” standard as produced by Ultrascale differs from 1:64 scale only in that it has a deeper flange (about 24 thou compared to 18 thou) but this doesn’t cause any problems as long as any inset track isn’t filled to less than 0.024” of the railhead! 
 

If proprietary ranges can be adapted to suit, be that by removing a bit of the tyre rear face (which improves the standard EMGS profile anyway) or by reducing the B2B to maintain the correct wheel check gauge, so that compatibility with the published standards is achieved, that’s good. 
If someone wants to widen their track gauge and use 00 wheels at wider B2B, then as long as they accept that they cannot run anywhere else, that’s fine.

 

This is why we have a single set of standards, and those standards are not based on any proprietary ranges, but on the real thing scaled down and several layouts have been built and successfully exhibited using them.

 

If anyone is sitting there and struggling to follow some of the terminology/maths, the answer is simple. Use the published (by SSMRS) standards. The maths has been done. One single tyre profile(*) and one back-to-back gauge will see you tight.
 

It us surprising what can get achieved by having the frames slightly closer together (or is it apart?) than scale: just 10 thou (that’s a quarter of a millimetre) of side play play gauge widening achieves an astonishing amount. Ditto for having all axles able to go up and down (twin-beams plus a pivot compensation, or full springing) on locos. For large locos on tight curves, you can always speak to Jas about he did it, or consider a smaller scale, larger space, or different subject!

 

* I am aware that the prototype had more than one tyre profile, but this was to reduce side play on coupled wheelbases, as connecting rods were not supposed wobble sideways. We can allow that on our models, hence a single profile.

 

I strongly urge anyone coming into S to use the SSMRS wheel and track standards, unless they are very sure of what they are doing and aware of the consequences of deviating from those standards.

[Lacathedrale]

I got a new roof on my SER covered wagon. This is more substantial (and probably over-scale?) but it at least looks better. I'm going to take advantage of archer rivet transfers for the outside bracing - the spacing won't be correct but I'll have the opportunity to see how it looks in anger:

 

 

 

[steverabone]

Beautiful modelling on that SER van. Once you've painted it I suspect the roof issue will be less obvious.

 

 

[Regularity]

Flubrush has clarified the position with the wagon wheels supplied by Alan Gibson Workshop: they have deeper flanges, which affects the looks slightly but can improve the track-holding, but are otherwise in conformance with the SSMRS standards. (Sounds like the “EM fine” profile.)

 

William, how thick is your roof? Wooden roofs were quite substantial affairs, and I would guess that 20-30 thou thickness is about right.

[ScottW]

It's funny what pops up from time to time. Last night when surfing Facebook a post popped up from Endon Valley Custom Decals showing a couple of pictures of a very nice Drewry Shunter belonging to a chap named Kelvin.

 

 

 

This particular little shunter was built by myself a number of years ago and is based on the S Scale etches sold by Worsley Works. Having all but completed the locomotive a few gremlins were needing sorting out to get it running smoothley but, by that time, I had lost interest and packed it way in a box for a rainy day.

 

 

Fast forward a few years and I was persuaded into selling the loco on. It has subsequently passed through a few hands but one owner had the vision to finally complete the loco. I believe Trevor Nunn had a hand in getting it running and putting the final touches to the model. This is the first time I have seen the locomotive finally completed and with Trevor working his magic I'm sure it runs as well as it looks.

Edited January 23, 2021 by ScottW

[Beechnut]

Don’t panic Scott, it still runs very well and is a credit to your building skills. Kelvin sold all, or most of his S scale stock earlier this year.

 

Brendan

 

 

 

 

[ScottW]

Thank you for sharing that, Brendan. The locomotive is looking superb in it's new BR livery.

 

On seeing the two pictures online I contacted Kelvin to confirm it was the same model and he informed that you were the new custudian. I hope it brings you much enjoyment, it's nice to see it in operation and not lying in a box waiting for that rainy day.

[flubrush]

  I've had difficulties during recuperation trying to concentrate on matters,  including railway modelling. :-)    But the arrival of a new book from the Caledonian Railway Society at the beginning of this week focussed minds wonderfully.

 

https://www.crassoc.org.uk/web/node/374

 

I've now mapped out what locos I might build over the coming years and started work on the driving wheels I might need.   I make my wheels by using my CNC mill to cut the spoke centres from brass,  then fit steel tyres.  I have to hand code some of the files for profiling the spokes and that usually causes a bit of messing around when I try to remember how I did it last time round,  maybe several years before. :-)    

 

So I opted to produce the code for all the wheel sizes I might need so that it is available when required.

 

 

The largest spoke centre on the right is for a 5' 9" 20 spoke driver which will suit any of the ubiquitous members or the Caledonian large 0-4-4 tank classes.    The larger of the bogie wheel centres is for a 3' 2" wheel which also suits the large 0-4-4T. 

 

The next larger centre is fo a 5' 0" 16sp driver which will suit any variant of the Drummond 0-6-0 Jumbo.  It will also suit the Lambie Class 1 4-4-0 tank along with the larger bogie wheel.

 

The smallest centre is for a 4' 6" 14sp driver will will suit all the 0-6-0 goods tank classes.  It will also suit the diminutive Drummond 0-4-4T along with the smaller centre for a 2' 6" bogie wheel.

 

These are test cuts using Plastikard to prove out some of my hand coded files for CNC - easier on tools and nerves when trying them out for the first time. :-)

 

 

The centres also have the distinctive deep boss of the Caledonian drivers.  The Caledonian from Drummond to McIntosh was an inside cylinder line,  so could have deep bosses on driving wheels.  But most wheels available are for outside cylinder prototypes,  where the boss depth was restricted by the motion.

 

There's no way I'm going to build all these locos immediately - that's not the S scale way. :-)  But I'll probably start cutting brass on a set of the 4' 6" wheel centres for an 0-6-0T and I know I've got the files available for any other wheels when the time comes.

 

Jim.

[Timber]

wheels look great - the geometry is complex but results look fantastic.  

[flubrush]

Things have moved on a bit and I've got some brass centres cut now.   It took a while since I referenced back to wheels I had cut some years ago and I thought that the settings for the cutters was asking for trouble.  I use carbide cutters.  They are a bit expensive and they show a marked tendency to go ping if you push them too hard.  So I started off slow and easy on Thursday and got one centre done,  then started notching things up a bit on Friday,  and got two done,  and finally did a bit more notching up and got three done yesterday - on the settings I had used some years ago. :-)

 

 

All six on the sheet of brass they were cut from.  I find this the best way to cut centres since it is easy to hold the centres for milling and mostly cut right through,  but with each having four thin tabs to keep them located,

 

 

...and the six released from the plate with a small amount of cleaning up.  I still have to go round them all with scrapers and small files to finish off the spokes.    I had considered doing just one as a master for casting but I opted to go with cutting the lot so that I had them to hand relatively quickly.  But I'll maybe consider doing the other wheels as masters for casting.

 

Jim.

 

[Timber]

hello - just fitted some 3D printed wheels to my Albion loco.  First attempt - I am using the society tyres and Markit axles.  Results were better than expected but by no means perfect.  Next version is in production, I have modified some of the measurements and sent the prints off to Shapeway.  The plastic outside diameter was smaller than the inside diameter of the tyre by a fraction of a mm but I managed to centre reasonably well.  This will be fixed in next release models.  The crank pins are temporary. 

 

I used the versatile plastic from Shapeway - just super glued into the tyre.  It is possible to print in brass but will save this test until I have the exact model I need.    

 

Model is using gibson pickups off the drivers, nothing on the leading wheel.  It needs the tender pickups to improve pickup but left off for this demo clip.

 

 

[Rosedale]

On 26/07/2020 at 22:13, flubrush said:

 

The price to produce a similar set of gauges today would be a lot more than the £6 price which was set a good few years ago.  I made a few investigations when Parts Officer with no results which would have provided a reasonable price.   The ones in the stores at the moment were made by me on my CNC machine and are a quite basic bar and slot type - to fill a gap.  However,  I had an idea that might produce a gauge and had started to investigate the possibilities just before the AGM,  but got no further for other reasons. :-)  

 

Basically my idea is to produce a rolaguage type in two halves mounted on a screwed rod.  Then the gauge can be adjusted to whatever variant is required and locknutted.   The only critical part in manufacture is the width of the slot to fit the rail.   This means that stores only have to stock a basic gauge assembly which can be adjusted to suit.

 

I was never really happy with having a set of four gauges for standard gauge and the three widened gauges.   Too often you require several gauges of the same measurement when building pointwork and you would accumulate a fair number of non-essential gauges if buying in sets of four.

 

I'll have a chat with Paul Greene and see what he thinks.   We are now using quite a reliable supplier who provides our steel tyres and back-to-back gauges and who might be able to do the job.

 

Jim.

Good idea Jim! Your gauge is great by the way, but you do often need more of the widening gauges so yes I'll explore the possibilities.

 

Paul

[flubrush]

I've been digging around in my workshop and unearthed a wagon project that I had been doing six or seven years ago.  Then various things like Parts got in the way. :-)   But the main object was to make sprung chassis for rolling stock and the main problem was that sprung models need a bit of weight in them so that the springs can work properly.   That can be difficult to achieve if you are using light materials like wood or styrene for the bodies.  So I set out to make underframes with enough weight in them to do the job.   I actually documented the early work in the Western Thunder forum and here's a pointer to the thread - I think you have to register to see pictures in full size.

 

https://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/re-rolling-stock-for-banavie-road.700/page-10

 

This jumps in near the end of the thread when I started on the wagon underframes - the earlier part is about coach underframes and etching "W" irons.

 

 

 

Here's one of the underframes with the "W" irons tack-soldered in place.  The frame in the background aligns the "W" irons square and at scale nine foot centres.

 

 

The spring wire used is steel guitar strings - like the D'Addario one above.   They go in one thou steps from 0.007" up to around 0.020" and they uncoil straight,  unlike coiled spring steel wire which always retains a bend when uncoiled.

 

 

The spring wires have been inserted in the "W" iron etch...

 

 

...and the wheels and axles and bearing holders are placed in the bearings slots and the bearing holders are rotated around until they locate in their guides at the top of the "W" iron,  and the spring wire locates on the small peg on the carrier to apply downward pressure.   That's me making it sound simple - sometimes it works that way first time,  other times it becomes a complete fiddle. :-)   But the more I did it with the other underframes,  the better I got. :-)

 

 

The frame right way up...

 

 

...and with its unfinished body perched on top.

 

 

I also fitted springs and wheels to the other five underframes.   The axles have parallel journals and I machined the pin-point ends of the Society axles to achieve that.  The bearings used were the Exactoscale 2mm diameter ones.

 

I also dug out something that I had completely forgotten about...

 

 

... a Society wagon kit with a metal frame fitted.

 

Even with the brass and nickel silver frame,  the weight of the underframes wasn't quite enough and I had experimented six years ago with putting some lead strip in the "W" iron base,  which did the job.

 

Now to fire up the 3D printer and start making buffer stocks,  springs and axleboxes to add some details.

 

Jim.

[Timber]

Hello - more progress on 3D printed driver wheels using the society tyres.

 

Printed some 5'2" wheels for my Sharp Stewart 0-4-2 loco - i think that it is the B&M equivalent of the Cambrian Atlanta Class - (need to refit brakes and paint other wheels that are Gibsons).  I now have prints for 5'2" 14 spoke PB plus 5'7" 16 spoke with a 12" IL throw and 17 spoke with a 10" IL throw.  

 

Clearly early days but the results are still encouraging.  

 

Next steps is to work out how to package on Shapeway so that I can reduce the price per wheel.   Plus I have some Ultrascale tyres that I will have a look at.

[Timber]

Hello - over the past few months I have become a fan of High Level gears.  Until now I have been using the RoadRunner but in an attempt to try and rebuild my Albion Class locomotive with the correct boiler I tried out a LoLoader.....once again a wonderful product that did the job nicely.  With the LoLoader you get an extra gear carriage that gives that little bit more flexibility and space something that just allowed me to squeeze the motor into the boiler.

[Lacathedrale]

Looking great!

 

What's the process for fixing the extra segment in the LoLoader?

[Timber]

Thank you - it is just part of the kit......there are three components, the motor fixing, drive wheel fixing and the flexible carriage in the middle.  This provides the a

dditional flexibility.  After I took this picture i dropped the motor down to one slightly smaller so that there was more clearnance in the boiler.  

[Timber]

hello - following on from the 3D printed plastic wheels I have printed a wheel in steel.  It has a cast feel to it but will paint up nicely ( I think ).  It sits on a Markit axle (that will need to be split) with a society tyre.

 

Question - I have never made a split axle chassis - question for those that have - do you push fit the wheel into the tyre? and if you do how many thou or fractions of a mm do you typically use to get the push fit?

 

I am working on a split axle design that I will share if it looks like it will work.

 

 

[flubrush]

24 minutes ago, Timber said:

Question - I have never made a split axle chassis - question for those that have - do you push fit the wheel into the tyre? and if you do how many thou or fractions of a mm do you typically use to get the push fit?

 

 

I don't do push fits of spoke centres into tyres now since there's always the possibility of the spokes distorting if the press fit is tight.  I go for very easy push fits which require a gentle press, then use solder paste to fix the two parts together.  

 

I think, in the diameters we are talking about, that the press fit allowance will be under one thou which becomes quite tricky to reproduce for several wheels when using the lathes that we can afford. :-)   For push fits  I find I tend to creep up on a diameter,  then when I'm getting close,  turn down a short length of the diameter until it just fits the hole it's going into,  then set the cross-slide back quarter to half thou (depending on diameter) and turn down the complete length.   This usually gives me a good push fit and the reduced easy fit start gives a good lead in for the push fit.  But it's a bit of a pain for a set of four, six, or more wheels unless you can trust the accuracy/repeatability of your lathe. :-)

 

Jim.

Edited September 17, 2020 by flubrush

[Timber]

Thank you Jim.  It came off the printer as a gently touching the sides of the tyre so i will give it a go with some solder paste.

 

Thank you

[Timber]

hello - continuing on the theme of printing wheels

 

I have now printed a wheel and a half axle in steel.  The axle has a square hole printed into the middle.

 

I then have a 3D printed insulated spacer with a square pin on each end.

 

The square pins simply push into the square holes in the axles providing stability, quartering and correct b2b.

 

There is a bit of work to do.....when pushed together and glued the system is robust and appears to be true but I may need a sleeve to go over the spacer to strengthen - i need to build a split axle frame to test..... 

 

 

[flubrush]

What are you going to do about axleboxes/bearings? - fit two full ones on the axle stubs before joining the parts,  or provide half bearings in the frames.

 

I would also see how the parts work out in practice after joining without a strengthening sleeve.  You might find that the stresses under normal usage when mounted in bearings doesn't cause problems.

 

Jim.

Edited September 26, 2020 by flubrush

[Timber]

jim - ..they are a very tight push fit.   So I plan to build the chassis with bearings in chassis hornblocks, axle in from each side and push together to make true.  The proof will be if the loco stays on the track or better still runs with no wobble.

 

The next version will have a smaller spacer but longer square pins.  I will then pass the square hole right through the axle and wheel.  Otherwise the square hole gets print material debris in it that is difficult to clean out.  If I have a hollow axle i can just push a piece of bar through to clean it.  The small spacer will reduce any flexing that may occur.

 

more to do.......

[flubrush]

The time has come to start fitting 3D printed parts to my wagon underframes.  The first parts are Caledonian buffer stocks and I've had a fair bit of messing around getting the 3D prints into a good shape to use.  The main problem is that I require a good spigot to use when drilling the buffer stocks and the normal way of 3D printing puts the details sides on top and the back sides underneath.  This means that the shape of the spigots underneath gets much modified by the dimples left by supports and by excess resin collected during the printing process.    So there's been a lot of experimentation to put the spigots on top and the detailed side underneath which meant a lot of fiddling with support placement so that the detail isn't too badly affected.

 

I also made a small set of simple tools to make life a bit easier when drilling the stocks.

 

 

The main reason for the tools was to make drill changing as easy as possible when drilling through the buffer stocks - the left hand tool has a small spigot to fit the hole in the 3D print to line the part up for drilling.  The middle tool holds a 1.2mm drill to drill the clearance hole for the buffer shank and the right hand tool holds a 0.5mm drill to drill the holes for the reduced shank of the buffer.

 

 

Here's the spigot tool algning the buffer stock in the chuck...

 

 

... and here's the 1.2mm drill opening out the clearance hole for the buffer.  The brass collar limits the depth to 4.5mm - I'm springing the buffers so the depth has to be set to suit this.

 

 

All the bits,  with the drilled stock on the left,  a Society 12" buffer,  and springs from Wizard models.

 

 

...and the finished product temporarily fitted to the underframe.

 

The lathe is probably a bit of overkill since a pillar drill could do the same job,  or even a hand drill if you can trust yourself to drill square. :-)   But it's what comes easiest to me in the workshop.

 

I'll fit the stocks to the solebars and leave the fitting of the buffers until the rest of the wagon is complete and painted to avoid any possibility of stray paint gumming up the buffers.

 

Jim.

Edited September 26, 2020 by flubrush