Why Use Specific Point Motors?

[Pete the Elaner]

On 20/07/2019 at 10:50, RFS said:

 

Where you have a route to set, it could be done with a mimic diagram with the toggle switches inserted into that, so you just flick the switches on the diagram as necessary to set the route. 

I don't think you've visualised that correctly.

If you have 4 sidings with 3 points feeding them, with solenoids motors & a diode matrix, you only need 1 button for each siding, which can throw 2 or 3 points the correct way to select the entire route.

You would need something more complex with slow action motors to achieve the same because they rely on a constant current which needs to be reversed.

[RFS]

10 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I don't think you've visualised that correctly.

If you have 4 sidings with 3 points feeding them, with solenoids motors & a diode matrix, you only need 1 button for each siding, which can throw 2 or 3 points the correct way to select the entire route.

You would need something more complex with slow action motors to achieve the same because they rely on a constant current which needs to be reversed.

 

By mimic diagram I mean a track diagram, with a lever switch located on each point position on the diagram. It's therefore just a case of flicking each point's switch as necessary to set the route. The lever itself acts as a visual indicator to show which way the point is set - they're on-on changeover switches, not the centre-off type.  

Edited July 22, 2019 by RFS

[Pete the Elaner]

40 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

By mimic diagram I mean a track diagram, with a lever switch located on each point position on the diagram. It's therefore just a case of flicking each point's switch as necessary to set the route. The lever itself acts as a visual indicator to show which way the point is set - they're on-on changeover switches, not the centre-off type.  

You have not understood the scenario.

A diode matrix requires 1 2-way switch per 2 sidings, or 1 stud on each. Any previous point in the throat gets thrown automatically by the diode matrix, requiring no switch. This last part is difficult to achieve with slow action motors.

I am not arguing that a diode matrix is better, just different. Solenoids/diode matrix leave no indication as to which way the point was last thrown & require extra work to build the matrix itself.

[Vecchio]

On ‎19‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 13:24, RLWP said:

Has anyone tried these?:

 

https://www.rapidonline.com/White-Label-1396900-Points-Motor-With-Limit-And-Polarity-Switches-59-1100?IncVat=1&pdg=pla-339166022633:kwd-339166022633:cmp-757438067:adg-44804851896:crv-207912323492:pid-59-1100:dev-c&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1MXpBRDjARIsAHtdN-2I7hXCiIadUwF-Qj3o_Crkg5nKsb8zxauYRXt8FdtVDE_-wKedOIQaAqmmEALw_wcB

 

Richard

 

Yes, probably 20 of them in a show layout. Rapid electronic is the UK outlet of Conrad electronic, which is a shop similar as Maplin was, but with more focus on modelling. I also used Fulgurex, which I consider as a better quality than the Conrad one. 

Stall current on the conrad motor is not an issue as the device has an end position switch. There are 2 different size of actuator wires in the package to get the right force for the application. Most positive was the price. At 2005 I paid 4 Euro per piece, about a quarter of the price of a Fulgurex.

 

After some positive comments now a negative one: the switches for frogs and for the motor using PCB and bronze strips - you can imagine that the copper layer on the PCB will not last forever. On my 8 module Austro-Italian layout I had one critical point - entrance from the mainline to a long branch line - and this one went during a show... I replaced it with a Fulgurex. They have proper relays like contacts.

 

And today? Both on my home layout as at the club I use RC servos together with the Megapoints controller.  

[jcredfer]

24 minutes ago, Vecchio said:

 

Yes, probably 20 of them in a show layout. Rapid electronic is the UK outlet of Conrad electronic, which is a shop similar as Maplin was, but with more focus on modelling. I also used Fulgurex, which I consider as a better quality than the Conrad one. 

Stall current on the conrad motor is not an issue as the device has an end position switch. There are 2 different size of actuator wires in the package to get the right force for the application. Most positive was the price. At 2005 I paid 4 Euro per piece, about a quarter of the price of a Fulgurex.

 

After some positive comments now a negative one: the switches for frogs and for the motor using PCB and bronze strips - you can imagine that the copper layer on the PCB will not last forever. On my 8 module Austro-Italian layout I had one critical point - entrance from the mainline to a long branch line - and this one went during a show... I replaced it with a Fulgurex. They have proper relays like contacts.

 

And today? Both on my home layout as at the club I use RC servos together with the Megapoints controller.  

 

I have to agree on the use of Servos. 

Small- very, very small if required;

Mountable under or on top of the board [small enough to go under a platform];

Speed completely adjustable to any of the above requirements;

Will apply a small pressure to the points at each end of the throw  [NO they don't buzz, if set up correctly!!];

Control rodding can be from any angle, as servo arms can be in line or bell crank;

Control rods can be attached to the outer ends of the throw arm, simple z-bend and insert;

Can be operated by simple DC switches, contact button, or DCC, or both;

Silent;

Long lasting, as under no stress;

Very simple to install.

 

Agree about Megapoints, but Peco and a few others can be found with different numbers of servo outlets.  Personally, I would stick with Magapoints or Peco, there are rumours that they are from the same source.

 

Regards

 

Julian

 

 

[57xx]

9 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Does anybody know what the stall current of the Conrad / White Label point motors is? I need 11 for a layout and I am trying to work out what size power supply I need. The data sheet just quotes 1 amp, but I assume that is not the stall current, otherwise they will  get very hot.

 

 

Hi Roy, they don't stall, they have built in limit switches to stop the movement.

[RFS]

4 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

You have not understood the scenario.

A diode matrix requires 1 2-way switch per 2 sidings, or 1 stud on each. Any previous point in the throat gets thrown automatically by the diode matrix, requiring no switch. This last part is difficult to achieve with slow action motors.

I am not arguing that a diode matrix is better, just different. Solenoids/diode matrix leave no indication as to which way the point was last thrown & require extra work to build the matrix itself.

 

We seem to be at cross purposes here! I  fully understand that the scenario is different with slow-motion motors compared to solenoids. What I'm saying is that if you were using slow-motion motors you probably wouldn't bother with a diode matrix but instead have a paddle-type lever switch positioned on each turnout on the mimic diagram and just flick the turnouts you need to change. The levers give the indication of which way the turnout is set. 

 

But if you really wanted a diode matrix with slow-motion motors then what you could do is have miniature latching DPDT relays instead to provide power to the motors, dispensing of course with the CDU.  These relays can be had for no more than a £1 each if you shop around., 

Edited July 22, 2019 by RFS

[57xx]

2 hours ago, 57xx said:

 

Hi Roy, they don't stall, they have built in limit switches to stop the movement.

 

Here's one I broke earlier...

 

 

I managed to burn out one of the control diodes and whilst it's been sat languishing in a box, the actuating arm appears to have got bent.