Hornby TTS Decoders No Longer Enabled On DC Mode?

[DCB]

17 hours ago, BritishRail60062 said:

Unfortunately where I live. There is no local model train store here in Derry and Enniskillen is too far and there is no model train store in Belfast either. That means I have to rely on online shopping for my model train needs unless a model train shop does open here in Derry although I would have expected a model train shop in Belfast but this is not the case sadly.

We'll just have to wait and see what Hornby will say on this issue next week.

All the best

Ash.

I am sure my local Model Shop which is "Cheltenham Model Centre" would test a loco on DC for you before sending it  if you explained the problem.  They do mail order and are pretty good on price and very helpful.  I have been a customer of theirs and their predecessor on the same site "The Modellers Den" for over 40 years.

[Derails Models]

Hi Ash,

 

Ian Hargrave just alerted me to this thread and I thought I'd add my twopenneth:

 

I agree with one of the comments above that says that CV29 appears to be set against DC running despite what the "destruction" manual might say. I will flag this to Mr Isles of this parish, to see if he can shed any light on the matter.

 

I have just tested one of my stock 60's and too have the same issue. Unfortunately at this current point in time my GM Prodigy set is away for repair and I'm using a temporary Bachmann E-Z controller that doesn't do complicated CV Values, so I can't do much more "fiddling" at this point in time.

 

If anyone is purchasing one of these models and, like the OP, doesn't have access to a DCC Controller (which is totally understandable, I should add), I would call the shop it's being ordered from and kindly ask them to test it on DC, and if it isn't set correctly, could they alter DCC29 to suit and then re-test before they ship the model; for some retailers like ourselves, this would not be a problem at all.

 

I would also be interested if anyone out there has one of these 60's and could try changing CV29 to just double check that it would work, ahead of me getting my GM kit back and trying myself. 

 

HTH

[Widnes Model Centre]

 

Had a quick reply back from Hornby. DC Mode is disabled. This has been sent for further investigation. As we suspected may not be intentional. 

 

Once Hornby have anything further l will post any updates.

[RAF96]

Maybe DC running was turned off deliberately in order to reduce the chance of DC runaway under DCC operation.

Obviously DC users buying a TTS DCC fitted  loco will be inconvenienced, especially if they do not have access to a controller.

[Ian Hargrave]

17 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Maybe DC running was turned off deliberately in order to reduce the chance of DC runaway under DCC operation.

Obviously DC users buying a TTS DCC fitted  loco will be inconvenienced, especially if they do not have access to a controller.

 

Turned off ? By whom exactly ?  I don’t think there’s anything deliberate about this situation. The vast majority of these go straight from factory to customer without intervention.

[truffy]

29 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Maybe DC running was turned off deliberately in order to reduce the chance of DC runaway under DCC operation.

If that were the case, don't you think that a warning note would've been included to that effect and help DC users?

 

Like @Widnes Model Centre says, more likely an oversight.

Edited July 22, 2019 by truffy
spilling

[BritishRail60062]

4 hours ago, Derails Models said:

Hi Ash,

 

Ian Hargrave just alerted me to this thread and I thought I'd add my twopenneth:

 

I agree with one of the comments above that says that CV29 appears to be set against DC running despite what the "destruction" manual might say. I will flag this to Mr Isles of this parish, to see if he can shed any light on the matter.

 

I have just tested one of my stock 60's and too have the same issue. Unfortunately at this current point in time my GM Prodigy set is away for repair and I'm using a temporary Bachmann E-Z controller that doesn't do complicated CV Values, so I can't do much more "fiddling" at this point in time.

 

If anyone is purchasing one of these models and, like the OP, doesn't have access to a DCC Controller (which is totally understandable, I should add), I would call the shop it's being ordered from and kindly ask them to test it on DC, and if it isn't set correctly, could they alter DCC29 to suit and then re-test before they ship the model; for some retailers like ourselves, this would not be a problem at all.

 

I would also be interested if anyone out there has one of these 60's and could try changing CV29 to just double check that it would work, ahead of me getting my GM kit back and trying myself. 

 

HTH

Hi there. In truth, this is a brand new problem that I have experienced and considering that all past purchases of DCC and TTS fitted have DC mode enabled by default. I was kind of surprised because the first one I just sent it back as I thought it was just a bad egg or a dud and that one had a nasty scratch on the cab roof. But when I bought my replacement and put it on my DC loop of track. When I applied power, there was nothing and I thought to myself. I'd better alert potential users to this issue as my gut instinct told me that there was something wrong with the decoder and power was not reaching the motor nor the lights. After testing with a blanking plug once I got confirmation that it wouldn't invalidate the warranty by doing this test. The model worked and responded like a DCC ready model with the planking plug in place. As a result, this confirmed that the DC mode on the decoder is turned off as default by Hornby which I found to be a very odd movement. 

 

As to fair to Hornby on this issue. I am 99.9% certain that this was not intentional but for those that do not yet have a DCC system like myself or those that are not interested in DCC. It will be somewhat inconvenient and perhaps could cause hassle to buyers that buy the locomotive from a retailer or on eBay and think they have a faulty locomotive when infact DC mode is disabled. That was another reason I raised this matter to help sellers and retailers be aware of this issue so they can take counter-measures if necessary .

2 hours ago, Widnes Model Centre said:

 

Had a quick reply back from Hornby. DC Mode is disabled. This has been sent for further investigation. As we suspected may not be intentional. 

 

Once Hornby have anything further l will post any updates.

I will look forward to seeing what the response will be on this matter and hopefully they can fix it on their supply of models and all retailers can fix their stock before shipping it out onto the buying public. Its better to avoid a backlash of complaints using prevention than cure .

7 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

I am sure my local Model Shop which is "Cheltenham Model Centre" would test a loco on DC for you before sending it  if you explained the problem.  They do mail order and are pretty good on price and very helpful.  I have been a customer of theirs and their predecessor on the same site "The Modellers Den" for over 40 years.

I have used them in the past via eBay and they have given me an exceptional service in the past and I have no problems using them again mate .

59 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Maybe DC running was turned off deliberately in order to reduce the chance of DC runaway under DCC operation.

Obviously DC users buying a TTS DCC fitted  loco will be inconvenienced, especially if they do not have access to a controller.

I don't mind DC mode being disabled as long as I know beforehand as then I can buy the model and put it away until I get my hands on the NCE Powercab or remove the chip entirely . As I have said before. I am doubtful that Hornby would intentionally do this because it would be bad business practice and the reason I am bringing this issue to light now is to prevent a backlash of complaints from non-DCC users such as myself. That way Hornby and  the Hornby retailers can take appropriate action on this issue imminently. Prevention is better than cure I think .

 

Disabling DC mode if you are a DCC user is a good thing to do if you use DCC only as it will prevent runaways and random runaways like on the older TCS decoders which I found quite annoying to be honest . But new models should have DC mode enabled by default which was sadly not the case this time for the Hornby TTS Class 60.

 

All the best

Ash.

[Steamport Southport]

They've known about this for months. The NBR J36 with DCC Sound was already being advertised as not being suitable for DC without removing the chip before it was released. As was the Lord Nelson.

 

Please note that this model will not operate on a DC (analogue) layout without removal of the TTS sound decoder and replacement with a blanking plate.

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/337743/hornby_r3600tts_class_j36_0_6_0_673_maude_in_north_british_railway_lined_black_as_preserved_tt/stockdetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

[Kaput]

Pretty sure Hatton's added that line off their own backs after the model actually released.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Kaput said:

Pretty sure Hatton's added that line off their own backs after the model actually released.

 

It was mentioned before it came out because I was planning on one, but didn't want DCC. Otherwise I would have pre ordered. Now I'm just hoping to pick up a cheaper one with the TTS removed.

 

Rails have similar on the LN.

 

PLEASE NOTE: This locomotive does not run on analogue. It is DCC ONLY, unless fitted with a blanking plug.

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/34844/Hornby-r3603tts-oo-gauge-lord-nelson-br-green-lord-nelson-class-4-6-0-steam-locomotive-no-30850-dcc-with-tts-sound-

 

 

 

Jason

[BritishRail60062]

Oh that's new to me then. So does that now mean that Hornby are intentionally disabling DC mode on the TTS decoders now?

 

If this is going to be norm then perhaps Hornby should release two versions of the model. One with TTS sound that won't work on DC and a DCC ready model that WILL work on DC like they did in the past when Hornby did DCC ready and DCC fitted models of the Class 153 and the new models of the HST. Or maybe just leave DC enabled for non-DCC users and leave it up the the DCC user to manually disable it or not .

[Hilux5972]

With regards to an earlier comment of giving the option of DCC Ready/Fitted available to purchase, the new Prairie, Princess Royal and I believe the Terriers have this option. Maybe Hornby will return to this permanently for new released from now on. Would be greatly appreciated for those that don’t want to pay the extra fro something they won’t use.

[RAF96]

Several manufacturers give the option of DCC Ready, DCC Fitted or DCC Sound for the same model. Maybe Hornby should adopt this principle and folk could decide themselves. At least it would increase the numbers on the market    such that when models were getting scarce an option variant may be available for purchase.

 

Why anyone would want to buy a TTS Fitted model for DC running is beyond me as it is well known the sound doesn’t work on DC anyhow, regardless of any motor control. I think disabling DC running is a logical factory fix for a well known problem. Several manufacturers have even disabled their controllers from running DC locos, either as optional default or in toto.

[Hilux5972]

49 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Several manufacturers give the option of DCC Ready, DCC Fitted or DCC Sound for the same model. Maybe Hornby should adopt this principle and folk could decide themselves. 

Like I said, Hornby have returned to doing so this year, just not the sound option. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by Hilux5972

[BritishRail60062]

4 hours ago, RAF96 said:

Several manufacturers give the option of DCC Ready, DCC Fitted or DCC Sound for the same model. Maybe Hornby should adopt this principle and folk could decide themselves. At least it would increase the numbers on the market    such that when models were getting scarce an option variant may be available for purchase.

 

Why anyone would want to buy a TTS Fitted model for DC running is beyond me as it is well known the sound doesn’t work on DC anyhow, regardless of any motor control. I think disabling DC running is a logical factory fix for a well known problem. Several manufacturers have even disabled their controllers from running DC locos, either as optional default or in toto.

Perhaps because people like me want that model but are forced to buy the TTS version because there is no alternative as a DCC ready model like 60044 on this occasion. I will be buying more of them but I shall just remove the chip and flog the decoder on to those that want them and will replace them with V5 LokSound with Legomanbiffo sounds. That way I can enjoy DC mode and when I get DCC, I can use them on DCC whilst enjoying the best of both worlds on that choice. 

9 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

With regards to an earlier comment of giving the option of DCC Ready/Fitted available to purchase, the new Prairie, Princess Royal and I believe the Terriers have this option. Maybe Hornby will return to this permanently for new released from now on. Would be greatly appreciated for those that don’t want to pay the extra fro something they won’t use.

I too would welcome that move as then we won't be forced to buy the TTS version that in reality I do not want at this present time .

4 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Like I said, Hornby have returned to doing so this year, just not the sound option. 

They haven't done this with all models yet mate. Otherwise I would have bought the DCC ready version in the first place .