Interfrigo Ferry Van

[grahame]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here (under UK prototype) or the foreign section, although as they were built to UK loading gauge and ran here I've dropped it in here, but apologies if it's wrong.

 

I'm contemplating scratch-building/bashing one or two of these in 1:148 scale (British N gauge). I appreciate there were many variants including two axle and bogie versions, and vans with rounded or angled roofs but I'm looking at Diagram type E375. This website shows the type: http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/ferry/italy-interfrigo-van-1.htm

 

I've know that Andy has made one for his Kensington Olympia model: 

and that there are GA diagrams on the Barrowmore club site: http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Book_02_Issue.pdf

and, of course, Paul Bartletts site, but I'd be grateful if anyone could supply good reference photos and flow details to help with understanding and the build.

 

TIA.

 

G

 

 

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Grahame,

 

This is the same van that I am looking to model.

 

Lots of general photos of them but only a few of them in Scotland.

 

Peter Tandy's book on Standard wagon also has an outline drawing and a photo.

 

Somewhere else on here are photos showing them in Scotland on trials.

 

Thanks

Phil H

[03060]

OPC's 'The West Highland Mallaig Extension in BR Days' by Tom Noble has photos of these wagons at Mallaig and Corpach (p.61) on trial in March 1987.

 

The blurb states that this was a trial by the Icescot consortium involving eleven of these (or very, very similar) wagons working between Mallaig and Grimsby via the 06.01 Mallaig Jun. to Mossend Speedlink service. The trial ran until mid-summer but then falted due to issues at the Icelandic end of the operation. Fifteen of the wagons were then stored at Mallaig Junction Yard, Fort William. (Which is where my interest in them stems from.)

 

I'd be very interested to see how you get on with making these, please, as I've kept a loose eye out on the continental 'N' gauge market to see anybody releases a 'usable' offering, there are some Interfrigo vans available but nothing that I've seen so far that's a near enough likeness (I'm aware of the scale difference.)

 

Hope this of use,

Regards,

Ian.

 

[westie7]

I picked up an Electrotren HO one randomly, with the plan of 

 

A. Making it a bit closer to OO to pass with other wagons.

B. Using that knowledge to come up with an N gauge plan.

 

If it works out I will share it 

 

Mark

[jonhall]

I've never been completely certain about the roof shape of those.

 

Jon 

Edited July 21, 2019 by jonhall

[The Johnster]

The Electrotren is in H0 and probably more trouble than it's worth to attempt a conversion to 00; practically everything needs to be altered, in size, shape, and proportion, not just in buffer height!  What about the Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster plastic construction kit  This was originally (when I built one back in the 60s) branded as '00/H0' but is to 4mm AFAIK; buffer heights are a giveaway and IIRC mine matched my other stock.  I believe this is still available and not expensive; in fact, now you mention it, I may look into one for Cwmdimbath.  Probably a bit late in terms of period, though.

[grahame]

22 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

The Electrotren is in H0 and probably more trouble than it's worth to attempt a conversion to 00; practically everything needs to be altered, in size, shape, and proportion, not just in buffer height!  What about the Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster plastic construction kit  

 

My project, as the OP, is to scratchbuild a 1:148 scale N gauge model (not OO, although someone has said they will attempt that  from a HO one to help produce a suitable N gauge plan). I'd have thought shrinking down a model would be as problematic as enlarging one.

 

What I'm after are some good reference photos and plans/diagrams (if possible), as well as some ideas and discussion about building it.

 

G

[Fat Controller]

28 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

The Electrotren is in H0 and probably more trouble than it's worth to attempt a conversion to 00; practically everything needs to be altered, in size, shape, and proportion, not just in buffer height!  What about the Airfix/Dapol/Kitmaster plastic construction kit  This was originally (when I built one back in the 60s) branded as '00/H0' but is to 4mm AFAIK; buffer heights are a giveaway and IIRC mine matched my other stock.  I believe this is still available and not expensive; in fact, now you mention it, I may look into one for Cwmdimbath.  Probably a bit late in terms of period, though.

The Airfix (now Dapol) Interfrigo is of a non-Ferry type, so is a HO representation of a Berne-gauge wagon. You mention the idea of one on Cwmdimpath; if you look on the Barrowmere site ( http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html ) you will find several books of drawings of Internationally-registered wagons. Amongst the various types is, IIRC, a Greek bogie insulated van with restrictions on use; these included, inter alia, the Trimsaran branch of the BP&GVR!

[PaulCheffus]

Hi

 

Although not the same type I have started work in a Hungarian Interfrigo van. It’s currently stalled as I can’t find and roof or under frame detail photos.

 

i think it’s diagram E620/1/2 and there is one photo of the type in David Larkin’s book Working Wagons Volume 2 bottom of page 51. At the top of the same page is the type I think Grahame is referring to.

 

Photo of progress so far

 

Does anyone have any further information on this type?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited July 21, 2019 by PaulCheffus
Grammar

[The Johnster]

Just ran through the earlier topic here, and it looks as if the Kitmaster is not actually a model of a ferry van built to the British loading gauge but a 'mainland' van to the Berne loading gauge to 1:87 scale.  It 'gets away' with being a ferry van because a Berne sized vehicle in 1:87 is a good match for a UK loading gauge sized one in 1;76.  They were apparently built during the 'late 50s'.  

 

I'm still tempted.  It wouldn't be the worst anomaly on my layout (Hornby 2721, Limbach 94xx, London/Birmingham division suburban stock in South Wales, etc), and the period is 1948-58 so maybe one can be permitted.  A cold store on the trading estate siding, not actually modelled, attracts insulated vans and containers already.  And they're cheap.  The Interfrigo is one of the first Airfix railway kits I built as a child, so can't be that hard (sounds like famous last words to me!) and there is the nostalgia element.

 

Check out HMRS Paul, Paul Bartlett's site for photos, G, and as mentioned there is a topic here, 3 pages of very useful information.  It's a more complex subject than initially appears, but there's nothing unusual in that!

[The Johnster]

3 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

The Airfix (now Dapol) Interfrigo is of a non-Ferry type, so is a HO representation of a Berne-gauge wagon. You mention the idea of one on Cwmdimpath; if you look on the Barrowmere site ( http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html ) you will find several books of drawings of Internationally-registered wagons. Amongst the various types is, IIRC, a Greek bogie insulated van with restrictions on use; these included, inter alia, the Trimsaran branch of the BP&GVR!

It doesn't get much more obscure than the Trimsaran branch, FC!  If one got up there, I reckon I can justify ferry markings on a Kitmaster (ex Dapol ex Airfix) for Cwmdimbath!

[Steamysandy]

Interfrigo ferry vans regularly worked to a siding at Slateford which served the Edinburgh Fruit Market at one time.

[acg5324]

The pictures I used for the Interfrigo Ferry van were from this website.

http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/ferry/index.htm

[grahame]

As already mentioned, the type of Interfrigo wagon I'm interested in - diagram E375 - can be seen here:  http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/ferry/italy-interfrigo-van-1.htm

and I've also already found the relevant page on the Barrowmore website (although they are very basic GA diagrams).

 

However, although that Rail Album site gives a nice selection of views all around the wagon they are all taken at ground level. What would be helpful are some higher level views that show the roof for the shape and hatch details. If anyone is able to provide that I'd be most grateful.

 

G

 

 

 

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all.

 

The nearest model - in HO at least - to those that came into the UK is this one

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rivarossi-2076-2-x-Freight-Car-Interfrigo-Der-FS-New-Original-Packaging/273904696610?epid=830084573&hash=item3fc5fdfd22:g:cAQAAOSwxwRatUgJ

 

Thanks

Phil H

Edited July 21, 2019 by Scottish Modeller

[Scottish Modeller]

1 hour ago, Steamysandy said:

Interfrigo ferry vans regularly worked to a siding at Slateford which served the Edinburgh Fruit Market at one time.

Hi there,

 

Yes - I was aware of this working but finding photos is like looking for a needle in a haystack.

 

I've seen a photo somewhere but have not been able to find it again.

 

It shows the vans in one of the sidings that used to run between the main lines and the back of the brewery nr Slateford.

 

Thanks

Phil H

[grahame]

7 hours ago, Scottish Modeller said:

Lots of general photos of them but only a few of them in Scotland.

 

Peter Tandy's book on Standard wagon also has an outline drawing and a photo.

 

Somewhere else on here are photos showing them in Scotland on trials.

 

This photo: http://au-fil-des-rails.net/aufildesrails_old/fichiers_ecosse/Ecosse0036_1024.jpg looks to be set in Scotland (and is the best I've seen for roof details).

 

HTH

 

G

[grahame]

13 minutes ago, Scottish Modeller said:

Hi all.

The nearest model - in HO at least - to those that came into the UK is this one

 

 

This is a better photo of a larger (than N) scale model:  http://www.brochardy-online.com/reseauYB/WagonsMarchandisesEU/AC45077-2.jpg I'm not sure if it is the same make.

 

G

[47137]

23 minutes ago, grahame said:

As already mentioned, the type of Interfrigo wagon I'm interested in - diagram E375 - can be seen here:  http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/ferry/italy-interfrigo-van-1.htm

and I've also already found the relevant page on the Barrowmore website (although they are very basic GA diagrams).

 

However, although that Rail Album site gives a nice selection of views all around the wagon they are all taken at ground level. What would be helpful are some higher level views that show the roof for the shape and hatch details. If anyone is able to provide that I'd be most grateful.

 

G

 

 

 

 

I have some models of these wagons by ACME in H0 scale. I could take some measurements or try for some better pics if this will help.

 

- Richard.

 

 

[Fat Controller]

4 hours ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

Although not the same type I have started work in a Hungarian Interfrigo van. It’s currently stalled as I can’t find and roof or under frame detail photos.

 

i think it’s diagram E620/1/2 and there is one photo of the type in David Larkin’s book Working Wagons Volume 2 bottom of page 51. At the top of the same page is the type I think Grahame is referring to.

 

Photo of progress so far

 

Does anyone have any further information on this type?

 

Cheers

 

Paul

No info, Paul, I'm afraid. There is a photo on Page 18 of 'Freight Train Formations', by David Ratcliffe, which shows a pair of MAV Refrigerated Vans behind a brace of Class 76. The photo dates from July 1974.

A general comment.  Most insulated vans tended to work to the 'Green Markets' of large urban centres, or to the main goods yard. However, for many years, the emigré Italian communities (and posssibly also the Greeks) would import fresh grapes from their region of origin, which they would press to make their daily wine. Thus, Interfrigo vans bringing these grapes would be seen in places like Luton, Bedford and Peterborough.

[jonhall]

4 hours ago, PaulCheffus said:

Hi

 

Although not the same type I have started work in a Hungarian Interfrigo van. It’s currently stalled as I can’t find and roof or under frame detail photos.

 

i think it’s diagram E620/1/2 and there is one photo of the type in David Larkin’s book Working Wagons Volume 2 bottom of page 51. At the top of the same page is the type I think Grahame is referring to.

 

Photo of progress so far

 

 

Does anyone have any further information on this type?

 

 

Is this in the 1811xx series of numbers? there is a drawing in MRC June 1963, and several photos are available form Roger Carpenter of the Hungarian vans - they were often to be found in Hampton (exLSWR)  apparently having delivered horse meat to a dog food factory in the area.

 

 

Jon

Edited July 21, 2019 by jonhall

[Fat Controller]

18 minutes ago, jonhall said:

 

Is this in the 1811xx series of numbers? there is a drawing in MRC June 1963, and several photos are available form Roger Carpenter of the Hungarian vans - they were often to be found in Hampton (exLSWR)  apparently having delivered horse meat to a dog food factory in the area.

 

 

Jon

It appears to have a electrical jumper on the right hand end of the buffer beam.

[PaulCheffus]

8 hours ago, jonhall said:

 

Is this in the 1811xx series of numbers? there is a drawing in MRC June 1963, and several photos are available form Roger Carpenter of the Hungarian vans - they were often to be found in Hampton (exLSWR)  apparently having delivered horse meat to a dog food factory in the area.

 

 

Jon

Hi

 

Thanks.

 

I think that’s the version only used on the continent, however the photo will be useful for the details and I’ll see if I can obtain a copy of the magazine.

 

The number series of the type I am attempting to build is 12 55 8099 xxx-x.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[jonhall]

13 minutes ago, PaulCheffus said:

 

I think that’s the version only used on the continent, however the photo will be useful for the details and I’ll see if I can obtain a copy of the magazine.

 

The number series of the type I am attempting to build is 12 55 8099 xxx-x.

 

 

No, thats a ferry van. I haven't had the enthusiasm to look up the renumbering from the pre-UIC to UIC numbers.

 

Jon

[PaulCheffus]

4 minutes ago, jonhall said:

 

No, thats a ferry van. I haven't had the enthusiasm to look up the renumbering from the pre-UIC to UIC numbers.

 

Jon

Hi

 

Thanks and I didn’t realise that.

 

I’ve also managed to find a copy of the magazine for sale.

 

Cheers

 

Paul