Class 91 withdrawals and appreciation

[Zomboid]

There's no real future for them here. If they can be useful abroad rather than as tinned goods then that can only be a good thing in the big picture.

[LNERGE]

The convoy passing Three Counties earlier..

 

 

[Jack Mc]

https://youtu.be/qNUWZnb6krk

 

[Pandora]

Will the Europhoenix plan include the sale  of  compatible DVTs  to work with the 91s?

[298]

6 minutes ago, Pandora said:

Will the Europhoenix plan include the sale  of  compatible DVTs  to work with the 91s?

 

DVTs not required for freight work.

[Ken.W]

3 hours ago, 298 said:

 

DVTs not required for freight work.

 

91s on freight work?

 

Geared for 140 mph running, 6000 hp, and just 80 tonnes adhesion

 

Hmm, good luck with that one.

[russ p]

If they are running them in pairs wherever they are going hope they have a good power supply 

[eastwestdivide]

Not sure exactly where I took this:

 

 

although there must be a clue in there somewhere.

[Dava]

Did any of the alternative UK uses such as London-Liverpool, Blackpool or Cardiff get approved for the 91s? 

 

Has the NRM any interest in acquiring one, such as 91119?

 

They were an innovative and successful design over 30 years, which eliminated the axle-hung traction motors of the class 81-87 & 90 locos and incorporated features from APT-P. Every other front-line generation of ECML express power has been preserved since the Stirling 'Single'.

 

[runs as required]

No one has yet clearly stated who "they" are who are sending the demonstrators across to "our European friends and partners".

Do I assume it to be a Rosco for whom the 91s have been repaired and wallpapered after return from lease ?

dh (wiping away a tear)

 

[Zomboid]

1 hour ago, Ken.W said:

 

91s on freight work?

 

Geared for 140 mph running, 6000 hp, and just 80 tonnes adhesion

 

Hmm, good luck with that one.

I guess there's more than one type of freight work. Though immediately I can't think of any types where a lightweight 140mph loco would be any use.

[Mark Saunders]

4 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

I guess there's more than one type of freight work. Though immediately I can't think of any types where a lightweight 140mph loco would be any use.

 

Go back to their introduction they were to work passenger by day and freightliner trains by night! 

 

At a similar time SNCF were running 100mph intermodal trains.

 

Mark Saunders

[russ p]

But liner trains then were a bit different to the ones of today,  they were also meant for mail work  and I believe at least one performed that work 

[Ken.W]

20 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

 

Go back to their introduction they were to work passenger by day and freightliner trains by night! 

 

At a similar time SNCF were running 100mph intermodal trains.

 

Mark Saunders

 

They were intended to work sleepers / postals / parcels by night.

 

However, the sleepers never returned to the east coast after going over to the west coast 'for the elecrification works', and by the time they were introduced 'sectorisation' meant the postals / parcels were out of bounds.

 

A 91 on a freightliner would make a very effective rail-grinder!

 

BR freightliners were (and AFAIK current ones still are) limited to 75 mph max.

As I've commented on 91s previously, they don't really get into their stride until you start getting above 60 (the max. for most freight)

... and, in poor railhead conditions, I've seen them struggle to get above 80 uphill

... with a 400 tonne Mk4 set!

Edited October 6, 2019 by Ken.W

[Ken.W]

42 minutes ago, Dava said:

Did any of the alternative UK uses such as London-Liverpool, Blackpool or Cardiff get approved for the 91s? 

 

Has the NRM any interest in acquiring one, such as 91119?

 

They were an innovative and successful design over 30 years, which eliminated the axle-hung traction motors of the class 81-87 & 90 locos and incorporated features from APT-P. Every other front-line generation of ECML express power has been preserved since the Stirling 'Single'.

 

 

I've read that, with their better acceleration, and the 110 mph limit anyway on the WCML without tilt, the 90s are being considered as more suited for the Euston - Blackpools. Though last I read no decision had been reached.

 

I believe 91111, and maybe 91110, are scheduled for the NRM

[TravisM]

As I’m aware, only 91110 has been earmarked to go to the NRM as it’s the UK record holder for electric traction.  There’s nothing special about 91119 apart from a fancy retro paint job and if the European demonstration goes well, I can see it and 91111 heading across the the channel.  Remember, if the leasing company can make money out of selling a surplus working asset, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will, rather than give it away.

 

As to 91117 and 120, according to wnxx.com, they are going to be re-geared by Voith once over in Europe from low tractive effort/high speed to high tractive effort/low speed.  I also believe they are going to be semi permanently coupled back to back (blunt end).

Edited October 7, 2019 by jools1959

[Pandora]

Freightliner not interested in replacing their class 86 double headers with a freight geared 91?

[TravisM]

31 minutes ago, Pandora said:

Freightliner not interested in replacing their class 86 double headers with a freight geared 91?

 

No, their getting the Greater Anglia Class 90’s when they come off lease, bar 90001 and 002 which are going to LSL.

[298]

14 hours ago, Ken.W said:

 

91s on freight work?

 

Geared for 140 mph running, 6000 hp, and just 80 tonnes adhesion

 

Hmm, good luck with that one.

 

I actually think they'll be quite suitable once regeared, as they also have smaller wheels. And the concept of cardan shaft drive instead of nose mounted motors isn't unknown in continental Europe.

 

8 hours ago, Pandora said:

Freightliner not interested in replacing their class 86 double headers with a freight geared 91?

 

Unfortunately our backwards country couldn't handle the power draw, as it is at the moment pairs of 90s are only permitted to run on six motors.

Edited October 7, 2019 by 298

[cheesysmith]

10 hours ago, Dava said:

Did any of the alternative UK uses such as London-Liverpool, Blackpool or Cardiff get approved for the 91s? 

 

Has the NRM any interest in acquiring one, such as 91119?

 

They were an innovative and successful design over 30 years, which eliminated the axle-hung traction motors of the class 81-87 & 90 locos and incorporated features from APT-P. Every other front-line generation of ECML express power has been preserved since the Stirling 'Single'.

 

 

The only electric loco that had axle hung motors was the class 86. Every other class had bogie mounted motors with a flexible drive to the axle. The 91 have the motors body mounted, with the gearbox on the bogie and a flexible drive to the axle. Very much the same drive system as used by SNCF for the TGV. The difference is in the 91 the motors are hung under the body in the same space they would have been if bogie mounted. This allowed shorter drive shafts, and more space inside the body unlike the TGV with the motors mounted inside the body shell.

Edited October 7, 2019 by cheesysmith

[Pandora]

Although the day of reckoning is still  in the future,  the question of a farewell to the class 91 charter train should be answered. 

A record attempt for London KX- Edinburgh -London KX is my suggestion. 

[Zomboid]

KX - Edinburgh - Euston would probably sell quite well. As would a non-stop London - Edinburgh and back run.

[woodenhead]

13 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

KX - Edinburgh - Euston would probably sell quite well. As would a non-stop London - Edinburgh and back run.

They tried that recently with one of the Caledonian Sleepers, it did the Euston to Edinburgh leg but it had to stop in the entrance to the tunnel exiting Edinburgh and went no further.

[Pandora]

How much of the WCML is route barred for the class 91 and stock?

Class 89 89001 is undergoing restoration by the AC loco group, what is the prospect of 89001 being  passed  fit for mainline duties before the  curtain-close of the class 91?

Edited October 7, 2019 by Pandora

[MarshLane]

41 minutes ago, Pandora said:

How much of the WCML is route barred for the class 91 and stock?

Class 89 89001 is undergoing restoration by the AC loco group, what is the prospect of 89001 being  passed  fit for mainline duties before the  curtain-close of the class 91?

 

Don't think there is any part of the WCML barred.  A 91 has worked Euston to Birmingham and Euston to Liverpool/Manchester on test and VIP trial runs back in the 1980s, they worked over Shap on test, and work Carstairs-Glasgow daily, so I think pretty much the whole route has been cleared from a gauging view point.