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16" Std Bagnall industrial tank engine

Gordon A
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phil_sutters

phil_sutters

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3 hours ago, BritishGypsum4 said:

Gordon,

 

I can try and take a range of photographs of Birchenwood No.4 if you would like? I am a fireman at Ribble Steam Railway and we have the first one built there. It is called Courageous after one of the dock tanks.

We did have Princess on hire for a gala and I got chance to fire that too. They are lovely machines to work on however there were subtle differences between the two. One was a Bagnall modification however I am not sure about the second.

The first modification was regards to the back of the cab. Princess has a hatch between the rear windows. This was so the regulator rod could be removed straight out without removing the cab! The second modification was Princess has a sun roof. Very handy as they are hot machines to work even on cold days!

I was on Courageous yesterday and it was rather warm to say the least!

 

Here she was when I lit her up in the morning

 

70623856_2702543926431923_8370750354911920128_o.jpg

There are a couple of photos of Princess in my Dad's Heritage Railways album - one is here. The other is adjacent to it.

 

 

Alas I model in 7mm. If there was ever a kit I'd be very tempted for one

 

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Gordon A

Gordon A

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1 hour ago, doilum said:

With regards to the square plate in the cab rear, would this be the same on the Hunslet Austerity? As a non steam engineer, I have long wondered as to its function.

 

If the cab is fitted with an opening door in the back I assume that it would be used for two reasons:

1) The enable the long fire irons into the fire box for raking the fire out and breaking clinker.

2) The fireman can lean into the bunker to ensure that any coal hanging in the sides can be hit with a shovel so that slides down to hole in the bottom for firing into the fire.

 

Apart from a trip to Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway to photograph Empress, I have not done any more on this project yet. I need to order and despatch the second batch of chassis for the Hornby Peckett first.

 

Gordon A

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doilum

doilum

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12 minutes ago, Gordon A said:

 

If the cab is fitted with an opening door in the back I assume that it would be used for two reasons:

1) The enable the long fire irons into the fire box for raking the fire out and breaking clinker.

2) The fireman can lean into the bunker to ensure that any coal hanging in the sides can be hit with a shovel so that slides down to hole in the bottom for firing into the fire.

 

Apart from a trip to Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway to photograph Empress, I have not done any more on this project yet. I need to order and despatch the second batch of chassis for the Hornby Peckett first.

 

Gordon A

Thanks.

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avonside1563

avonside1563

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The square door in the back of the upper cab in a Hunslet Austerity saddle tank is for access to the top lamp bracket which is fixed to the door. I cannot comment on Birchenwood No.4 in this respect but I can confirm that sister loco Florence No2 at Foxfield does not have anything other than the 2 rear windows in the back of the cab.

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doilum

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51 minutes ago, avonside1563 said:

The square door in the back of the upper cab in a Hunslet Austerity saddle tank is for access to the top lamp bracket which is fixed to the door. I cannot comment on Birchenwood No.4 in this respect but I can confirm that sister loco Florence No2 at Foxfield does not have anything other than the 2 rear windows in the back of the cab.

Thanks. I was aware that it wasn't a universal feature but couldn't identity a pattern to those which had it. A good excuse to go through the library.

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doilum

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16 hours ago, doilum said:

Thanks. I was aware that it wasn't a universal feature but couldn't identity a pattern to those which had it. A good excuse to go through the library.

Having had a good hour or two browsing I have reached a couple of conclusions. 

Firstly, how proportionally few photographs were taken of the rear and secondly, perhaps all the austerities had them. Some appear to hinge outward, most inward. Some have a lamp bracket attached, most don't. This includes photos from the 1940s and current heritage railways. Some appear welded up and painted over but the outline can be detected whilst one or two are completely missing.

Given that this opening was not a feature on the 50550 locos or the smaller 15 & 16" Hunslets, can we assume that it was a WD requirement?  Perhaps not a gun port, but maybe an easily accessible lamp? It was a feature on some GWR panniers but not on similar locos from the other companies. I just need definitive photos of the locos specifically built for the NCB.

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Din

Din

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3061, so far as I know didn't work at Rawdon Colliery, but at Measham Colliery a little further away and along the Ashby-Nuneaton Joint Railway close by. She would move to Cadley Hill in Swadlincote South Derbyshire. Not sure when she acquired the name "Empress" but was definitely carrying it by 1969 at Cadley Hill.

 

When the Shunters were upgraded to various sentinels and other such diesel locomotives they would've gone surplus, however the manager at Cadley Hill was supposedly a rather big steam buff, and would acquire as many steam shunters as possible.

 

These would include 2 austerity tanks (Cadley Hill no 1, currently hidden in Snibston Colliery, and 3889, aka No 65 currently at the Forest of Dean Railway, used at Cadley for spares)

 

RSH "Progress" (currently at the National Mining Museum, plinthed which is a horrific shame as she was given a completely new boiler in 1971)

 

Florence no 2 (preserved at the Foxfield).

 

Steam working would continue until 1981 when Sentinel 10055 and Hunslet 6693 would take over duties until 1988, when the whole site became open cast and mostly operated by conveyer belt to the truncated run round loop put in until the pit finally closed.

 

3061 currently lives at the Pontypool and Blanevon Railway and my goodness does she do well there.

 

So the long winded end of this all is:

 

I'd like one please. :D

 

 

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Gordon A

Gordon A

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Sorry I missed your post British Gypsum 4. Yes please to the offer of the photos. Any information welcome.

 

On Friday I went with Justin of Rummney Models to the Stafford County Archives. I had requested eighty one plans for the 16" Bagnall, of which they managed to find seventy seven. After viewing the plans I have ordered copies of sixty seven drawings which we thought would be useful.

The fun will be identifying any variations in the different builds. On a quick scan I think we have identified that some are left hand drive while others are right hand drive.

 

Gordon A

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BritishGypsum4

BritishGypsum4

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4 hours ago, Gordon A said:

Sorry I missed your post British Gypsum 4. Yes please to the offer of the photos. Any information welcome.

 

On Friday I went with Justin of Rummney Models to the Stafford County Archives. I had requested eighty one plans for the 16" Bagnall, of which they managed to find seventy seven. After viewing the plans I have ordered copies of sixty seven drawings which we thought would be useful.

The fun will be identifying any variations in the different builds. On a quick scan I think we have identified that some are left hand drive while others are right hand drive.

 

Gordon A

I have replied to your PM Gordon.

Will happily take photos of Courageous when next down at Ribble. Alas it might not be before the March gala.
I can say it is right hand drive as is Princess at LHR as I fired that when it visited Preston. They are some differences between the two. Princess does have a door at the back of the cab. It was to remove the regulator rod without resorting to removing the cab if I remember correctly. Courageous (Birchenwood No.4) has had the cab flame cut for this and a plate attached over the gap.

I believe the reg on Courageous was a customer order of being double handled. Apparently a Peckett there had the same arrangement. Not sure whether the steam brake is still the same as delivered and in service or whether it was one that was obtained. Things do get changed in preservation.
I will also measure up the ladders as requested and the spark arrester too. Not sure whether it sits too high on Courageous or not....Also there is no mesh on it so it isn't really a spark arrester... more like a halo ring for the exhaust!
Other than that I can say it is a brute and a lovely machine especially being the loco I had for my first driving turn.

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Gordon A

Gordon A

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I received digital copies of in excess of sixty drawings for the 16" Bagnall.

These will be passed on to Justin at S4 North. I have also been collecting pictures of the various locomotives where they are available on the internet.

 

Gordon A

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Gordon A

Gordon A

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At last, 20 months on from my initial post I am pleased to say that cad drawings for the 16" Bagnall are now being created.
A pleasant day was spent at Stratford archives viewing the works drawings for the 16 inch Bagnall and selecting which ones were useful.
I ended up purchasing copies of most of the drawings.
I also had a very satisfying day photographing Empress which is now based at the Pontypool & Blaenavon railway. My thanks to every one there who gave me access to photograph Empress outside of their sheds. A helpful friendly bunch.
The thinking at the moment is to do an etched nickel silver chassis, lower boiler, running plate, cab and bunker, with possible a 3D printed smokebox and saddle tank.

Gordon A

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