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Kato announces Class 800 in N


Mike Harvey
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The LNER one looks fantastic. The colours, printing and typefaces are all spot on. Dapol could learn a thing or two from their finishing. 

 

They will absolutely clean up with these. Hopefully they are planning 9-car versions and 802's in due course. TransPennine Express ones will be popular.

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Slightly off topic but relevant I guess - does anyone know if there are any visual differences between a 5-car Class 800 and a 5-car Class 801?  I think I recall reading somewhere that all the engines and fuel tanks are concealed under the bodyside valances so in theory they are identical in side profile but presumably there will be additional exhaust ports in the roofs of the 800?

 

Trying to work out how much work would be involved in repurposing an Kato LNER set into an 801 variant.

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IIRC a 5 car 800 only has 3 cars with diesel engines and the 801 keeps one diesel for emergencies so there probably isn't a huge amount of visual differences, especially at N scale.

 

Plus the way the intended 801's for GWR were fairly quickly converted to full bi mode (and are supposedly easy to convert back to full electric) suggests theres not much difference between them.

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13 hours ago, jonathan452 said:

AZUMA FROM 14:44

KATO 3~6月の新製品をレポート! / サフィール踊り子 各車両インプレッション! / Nゲージ 鉄道模型

SHIGEMON

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY011gLi-K0 


Just when I thought that seeing livery samples would help me decide!!! Well that didn't go down too well. They both look stunning.

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These are looking great - the LNER Azuma looks incredible. Even the GWR green looks much better in this video.
 

I think this is where my spending will be focussed in 2021.... despite savings from not going anywhere in lockdown, I haven’t spent a penny on modelling yet this year because there hasn’t been anything modern released yet.... 

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What looks impressive to me is that they've replicated both the white gaps and sections around the green vinyls, as well as the horrid matt finish the vinyls have.

As mentioned by @ash39, the typefaces etc look bang on, agree it's definitely something Dapol could learn from! They do seem to be the one standout that struggle in this area

 

Jo

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On 22/03/2021 at 19:14, Western Aviator said:

I love the “Made in Japan” bit at 17:10 :laugh_mini2:


On that subject, it would be interesting to know if they are actually “Made in Japan” or whether some parts of the manufacturing or assembly processes occur elsewhere. It has often been said that our models would be much more expensive if they weren’t made in China and yet I’m sure the cost of labour in Japan is significantly higher than it is in China. 

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1 hour ago, Western Aviator said:


On that subject, it would be interesting to know if they are actually “Made in Japan” or whether some parts of the manufacturing or assembly processes occur elsewhere. It has often been said that our models would be much more expensive if they weren’t made in China and yet I’m sure the cost of labour in Japan is significantly higher than it is in China. 

Yes they are manufactured in Japan, details of the factories here. 
https://www.katomodels.com/company

 

No doubt some components are bought in but all assembly is done in house. 
The labour cost can’t be taken as a gauge as to assess production needs more info as the level of automation is probably higher balancing it out. Certainly the standard Kato assembly relies much more on precise clip together parts than the extra parts for screwed together assembly most others use. You won’t find any soldered wiring inside either, it’s all stamped out contact strips. 

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As a general rule the Japanese are good are much better at "designed for assembly" than anyone else. Also I understand the Japanese home market for N is quite large so they can benefit from economies from standardisation and larger quantities overall.

 

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9 minutes ago, Chris M said:

As a general rule the Japanese are good are much better at "designed for assembly" than anyone else. Also I understand the Japanese home market for N is quite large so they can benefit from economies from standardisation and larger quantities overall.

 

 

This is my understanding too.  In conversations with Mr Kato he is always quite open that the Japanese domestic market is by far their largest customer, and that they sold significantly more Eurostars in Japan than they ever did in Europe.

 

The Japanese do seem to have a particular taste for Shinkansen type trains (ie high speed electric units) and given that the country is approx twice the size of the UK by population, and that N gauge is the dominant scale, their standard production runs are far higher: typically 10,000 units whereas a typical British run is 1000 units.  This means that design, tooling and production set up costs (tampo masters, paint masks, PCB design) are amortized across far higher numbers.  This, more than anything, is why the prices are so reasonable.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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57 minutes ago, Ben A said:

 

This is my understanding too.  In conversations with Mr Kato he is always quite open that the Japanese domestic market is by far their largest customer, and that they sold significantly more Eurostars in Japan than they ever did in Europe.

 

The Japanese do seem to have a particular taste for Shinkansen type trains (ie high speed electric units) and given that the country is approx twice the size of the UK by population, and that N gauge is the dominant scale, their standard production runs are far higher: typically 10,000 units whereas a typical British run is 1000 units.  This means that design, tooling and production set up costs (tampo masters, paint masks, PCB design) are amortized across far higher numbers.  This, more than anything, is why the prices are so reasonable.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

It's also a reason why their catalogue is only in Japanese! Their UK market is relatively so small it does not warrant the cost of a translation.

 

Edited by JohnDMJ
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Another reason N gauge is popular in Japan is that housing is eye-wateringly expensive and most apartments are quite small in contrast to those in the west.  Because of this, most layouts are put away after a running session and that’s where Kato’s unitrack wins hands down, very well designed, rugged and strong.

 

One thing I noticed about layouts in Japan, scenery is very minimal with only buildings, signals and catenary masts with the odd tree here and there.  They also like to run their trains at far higher speeds around their layouts.

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Hi,

Informative little article in the current NGS Journal (Mar-Apr 2/21) with Hiroshi Kato on overcoming design and engineering issues, and the design philosophy behind Kato models.

I already have far too many of their excellent US N scale for my wallets good, and it was the easiest of steps to get a GWR set on order once pre-orders first opened.

Not too long to wait now.

 

Regards, Gerry.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'm surprised that no-one has commented on the quoted minimum radius of 282mm (11.1") which rules out R1 setrack and is larger than the Peco R2 curves at 263.5mm (10.37") and almost R3 at 298.5mm (11.75").

 

 

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30 minutes ago, grahame said:

I'm surprised that no-one has commented on the quoted minimum radius of 282mm (11.1") which rules out R1 setrack and is larger than the Peco R2 curves at 263.5mm (10.37") and almost R3 at 298.5mm (11.75").

 

 


As they are a good bit longer than a Mk3 coach (3m in real life so about 2cm on the model) wouldn’t they look a bit ridiculous going round a Peco first or second radius curve? The minimum radius of 282mm is the third smallest radius curve in the Kato Unitrak range (after 216mm and 249mm) so presumably they’ve designed the model with that in mind. Why should they consider Peco radius curves? As has been mentioned above, they’ll very likely sell many more of these in Japan than the UK.

Edited by Western Aviator
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