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Kato announces Class 800 in N


Mike Harvey
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9 minutes ago, Western Aviator said:


As they are a good bit longer than a Mk3 coach (3m in real life so about 2cm on the model) wouldn’t they look a bit ridiculous going round a Peco first or second radius curve? The minimum radius of 282mm is the third smallest radius curve in the Kato Unitrak range (after 216mm and 249mm) so presumably they’ve designed the model with that in mind. Why should they consider Peco radius curves? 

 

It might look silly on setrack curves but then so does most current coaching stock models, and it doesn't stop a number of N gaugers moaning about locos not being able to cope with R1.

 

And, although the manufacturer doesn't need to consider Peco radius curves, potential UK purchasers will need to as the majority tend to have Peco track.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

It might look silly on setrack curves but then so does most current coaching stock models, and it doesn't stop a number of N gaugers moaning about locos not being able to cope with R1.

 

And, although the manufacturer doesn't need to consider Peco radius curves, potential UK purchasers will need to as the majority tend to have Peco track.


Well, they’ll either have to do without one of these trains, or build a layout with wider curves. Their choice!

Kato are building a train that is not suitable to run on the two smallest radius curves of their own Unitrak system. It is not suitable to run on Peco’s two smallest radius curves either. I don’t see the issue here.
 

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I don't have a problem with the minimum radius, but the issue is that you can bet there will be a lot of people either disappointed or take to moaning (probably especially on social media).

 

 

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I think the lack of comment may be due to the possibility that it's less likely that users of this forum will have 9" curves on their layout, although there will be some I'm sure.

 

Personally, I would prefer if more models weren't made for such a tight radius. 12" minimum would suit me fine, it might solve some problems with mechanisms and model detail.

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, grahame said:

I don't have a problem with the minimum radius, but the issue is that you can bet there will be a lot of people either disappointed or take to moaning (probably especially on social media).

 

 

Oh that’ll happen regardless ;) If it could be made to go round sharper then Kato would have done it but it no doubt caused compromises in how it functioned or looked so they chose their minimum radius that it all worked on. You may find it will go round slightly tighter curves but Kato will only quote radii in their range as a guide, it might also be it will operate at lower speeds ok on sharper but it wasn’t reliable enough pushing at full tilt so they quote what is safe ;) 

I’ve got Kato stock quoted for 219mm radius that will go round 150mm with the corridor connection shortened on one end of each coach. 

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2 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

I think the lack of comment may be due to the possibility that it's less likely that users of this forum will have 9" curves on their layout, although there will be some I'm sure.

 

 

 

. . . or that they're simply not aware. There always seems to be swathes of those whinging about locos produced for a minimum of 2nd radius curves. Perhaps it's time to encourage a more common usage of larger radius curves in N gauge layouts and move away from 9" setrack.

 

 

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6 hours ago, grahame said:

I'm surprised that no-one has commented on the quoted minimum radius of 282mm (11.1") which rules out R1 setrack and is larger than the Peco R2 curves at 263.5mm (10.37") and almost R3 at 298.5mm (11.75").

 

 


The Class 800s are long and slender. And being N gauge along with trying to have modern day features like close-coupling etc. It's going to be a tight squeeze

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3 hours ago, grahame said:

Perhaps it's time to encourage a more common usage of larger radius curves in N gauge layouts and move away from 9" setrack.


I entirely agree. N Gauge has been compromised for far too long by this ridiculous notion that every item of rolling stock should be forced around 1st radius Setrack. It's time to move on and away from gaps between steam engine & tender that require a pole vault or crazy gaps between rolling stock that is too small for close coupling mechanisms. 

I await the Class 800 with great interest, the photos here https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/kato_class_800_lner certainly seem to show Kato have nailed the look of the prototype perfectly when compared to photos, and the LNER livery application appears to be excellent, even down to the rather complex stripes on the window stripe. Hopefully the model will sell well and KATO will be encouraged to produce more UK outline N Gauge. 

 

Tom. 

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I'd not noticed that the minimum radius was above the "standard" second radius. I will need to reconsider the access to my fiddle yard (when it gets built). 

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The problem is that a lot of existing double track layouts use R2 and R3 in fiddle yards and hidden sidings to save space. You can fit an R2 and R3 double track circuit with scenery comfortably on the classic wide door baseboard. Anything larger and it's very tight... 

 

So it is a worry even if in an ideal world we would use wider radius curves. 

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Kato’s minimum radius recommendation for its Eurostar is 315mm, though the train will run with care on 228.6mm. I am hoping there is similar caution in the minimum recommended for the Class 800s, so I do not have to restrict use to selected fiddle yard tracks.

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1 hour ago, Gaugemaster Controls said:

Fingers crossed, the GWR unit should be with us next week.

Ooh great. My layout has never had a train on it that is incorrect for either location or one for my eras. This will be the very first exception to the rule when it arrives. The GWR 800 is great for location but about 40 years out of it’s time zone. I just couldn’t resist  though. My pre-order is with Cheltenham Model Centre so hopefully they will get them a few days after Gaugemaster.

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I have no interest in buying this model, but I received an email from Hattons giving an update about it's release. But what I found interesting is that Kato have a reputation for being expensive, albeit with a quality to match, but the price for the 5-car 800 set with track and controller is a very reasonable £250. Contrast that with the price of some forthcoming Farish models such as the 3-car 108 DMU which has a RRP of £240 just for the model alone!

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13 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

I have no interest in buying this model, but I received an email from Hattons giving an update about it's release. But what I found interesting is that Kato have a reputation for being expensive, albeit with a quality to match, but the price for the 5-car 800 set with track and controller is a very reasonable £250. Contrast that with the price of some forthcoming Farish models such as the 3-car 108 DMU which has a RRP of £240 just for the model alone!

£212 at Traintrax ;) 

https://www.traintrax.co.uk/gm2000103-kato-class-premium-train-p-2041.html
 

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1 hour ago, montyburns56 said:

But what I found interesting is that Kato have a reputation for being expensive, albeit with a quality to match, but the price for the 5-car 800 set with track and controller is a very reasonable £250. Contrast that with the price of some forthcoming Farish models such as the 3-car 108 DMU which has a RRP of £240 just for the model alone!

 

The price is mostly a function of supply and demand. Kato produce and supply their models in batches of many 10s of thousands (to meet a huge Japanese market, and yes the units will be sold there as well as the UK) while the Farish stuff is produced in a comparatively tiny batch of one to three thousand solely for the UK market.

 

 

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4 hours ago, montyburns56 said:

I have no interest in buying this model, but I received an email from Hattons giving an update about it's release. But what I found interesting is that Kato have a reputation for being expensive, albeit with a quality to match, but the price for the 5-car 800 set with track and controller is a very reasonable £250. Contrast that with the price of some forthcoming Farish models such as the 3-car 108 DMU which has a RRP of £240 just for the model alone!

 

As mentioned further back in the thread, a KATO production run is a minimum of 10,000 units, the majority of which will be sold domestically in Japan to a N Gauge market significantly larger than that in the UK. I'd be amazed if Farish produce more than 2000 108s.

 

The more you make, the lower the cost. 

 

It will be interesting to see what KATO do next in their UK 1:148th range. 

 

Tom. 

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These models do look good, and while I will not be buying one, the level of detail and mechanisms are superb. I have some of Kato's TGV's and they are superb. Even the ones produced twenty years ago still look as good as todays offerings and also good value for money.

 

Now I wonder if they will producing the GWR class 800 with cracks in the underframes as per the prototype which hit the headlines this morning?!? :laugh:

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

 

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1 minute ago, cornish trains jez said:

Now I wonder if they will producing the GWR class 800 with cracks in the underframes as per the prototype which hit the headlines this morning?!? :laugh:

 

A spot of dodgy mazak would sort that little present for a few years time

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