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Caley Jim

It's a Jubilee, but not as you know it!

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It is now some 17 years since I built my last loco, my 98 class 2-4-0 No 108, though two have received new chassis since then.  The bodywork for 108 was part of a sheet of etches from John Boyle's hand drawn artwork, reduced to 2mm scale.  As well as several different 2-4-0's there was also the bodywork for a Drummond 323 Class 0-6-0ST.

These were introduced in 1887 and became known as 'Jubilee Pugs', that year being Queen Victoria's Golden Jubilee.

CR399.jpg.f9e210833aea4f10f446baf1daae5a11.jpg

Drawings appeared in Model railways for July 1975.   My model will be of No 217 of the 1888 batch and will be powered by a 0816 motor from Tramfabriek mounted in the boiler with the drive in the firebox.  The chassis will be my usual beam compensated type and the parts for this were included on the same etch as the footbridge I recently completed.

51891667_frameparts.JPG.654ca1e67a1de81cb96d47a57285c726.JPG

From the top, RH frame, RH compensation beams, PCB spacers, LH beams, LH frames. The rear beams pivot on the bearings for the worm wheel, while the front ones pivot about the bearings for the centre axle, with the front of the frames supported on them via a rocker which pivots on the little section projecting down from the front of the LH frame in the photo above, thus providing 3-point suspension.  This will become clearer as the build progresses.  My reasoning behind this unconventional approach is the it ensures that all wheels are in solid contact with the rails at all times, with the objective of improving current collection.

Edited by Caley Jim
Edited to correct class designation.
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At Tutbury someone told me you were about to start a Caley Jubilee pug build.

I'm glad to see it appear on here and looking forward to watching it develop.

 

An alternative for Nick's Jubilee challenge?

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Thanks to nick and Angus for their kind comments.

 

Firstly I must correct an error pointed out by Angus.  These locos were officially the 323 class, not 232 class.  After a certain age one becomes easily confused!

 

A little progress.  The frames have been attached to the spacers and the support for the rocker formed.  The bearings have been fitted to the beams, the centre ones being only soldered to the front (outer) beams so that they pivot about these.  this was a tricky operation involving two pieces of tissue with holes punched in them, one between the flange of the bearing and the rear beam and the other between half etched areas on the beams, in order to stop everything being soldered up solid.

 

550726884_framesandbeams.JPG.e56616e287222171e9d9285432113af1.JPG

 

The support for the rocker is the projection on the LH frame and it will bear on the two lugs on the front beams.

 

Next job will be temporarily fit the beams in place, make the rocker and adjust it so that the chassis will sit level.

 

Jim

 

Jim

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Interesting spoke shape on this engine, Jim. Are they T section?

 

Tim

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Yes, Tim. Spokes are T-section. The wheels will be made by the same methods as the new Association range once the technical details for these have been sorted out. 

 

 

Jim 

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Slow progress for a number of reasons, not least that I had difficulty getting the worm gear shaft bearings soldered in place without soldering the rear beams up solid!  Eventually I applied some enamel paint to the inner face of the frames and the outer face of the beams and that seemed to do the trick.

 

The beams were first temporarily fitted, with the bearings held in place by a muff jammed between them.  With the ends of the wheel bearings in the holes in the frames, the rocker (40thou styrene) was made, fitted and the lugs on the beams adjusted so the the rocker didn't move.

 

The beams were then removed and the half-etched areas around the holes in the frames filed away to allow the bearings some ½mm vertical movement each way.  The beams were then fixed in place by soldering the worm wheel shaft bearings to the frames only, as above!

 

443907115_Beamsfitted.JPG.acb2c5a862583e22a4524944cf37707e.JPG

You can just see the top of one end of the rocker and the piece of copper wire on which it pivots.  I took the chance to try the gear meshing with some temporary shafts in place and all is well in that department.  I had to thin down the flanges of the bearings for both the worm wheels shaft and the centre wheels and also reduce the length of the muffs due to the extra thickness of the beams inside the frames.

 

Next up is to make the motor mount which will also form the underside of the boiler.

 

Jim

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

The beams were then removed and the half-etched areas around the holes in the frames filed away to allow the bearings some ½mm vertical movement each way.  The beams were then fixed in place by soldering the worm wheel shaft bearings to the frames only, as above!

 

Jim,

I am a bit new to this kind of thing, so please excuse what may be an obvious question.  The 1/2mm vertical movement that to provide some compensation to uneven track, ie to try and ensure all wheels remain in contact with the track?

 

Rich

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On 28/07/2019 at 20:18, Caley Jim said:

 

[...]

 

My reasoning behind this unconventional approach is the it ensures that all wheels are in solid contact with the rails at all times, with the objective of improving current collection.

 

Just out of curiosity: which method of improving current collection came up first? Yours or Mick Simpsons' "sprung" chassis?

 

I know you used the same approach to chassis construction for the CR 0-4-2 No. 391 which you built a while ago.

Edited by Valentin

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Compensated chassis for improving current collection pre-date ‘Simpson springs’ by a large margin, Valentin.  As an example, my Kirtley 0-4-4WT had a compensated chassis in 1980, but was subsequently rebuilt with a simple chassis, because the slack became too much. Denys Brownlee fitted ‘Simpson springs’ to his Flying Scotsman tender in the mid 80’s (and also more recently on the tender chassis I used on Mons Meg).  I don’t think Simpson springs on powered loco wheels would withstand running on CF. 

 

Tim

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18 hours ago, MarshLane said:

I am a bit new to this kind of thing, so please excuse what may be an obvious question.  The 1/2mm vertical movement that to provide some compensation to uneven track, ie to try and ensure all wheels remain in contact with the track?

The whole idea is to not only ensure that all wheels are touching the track, but are carrying weight in order to make good electrical contact.  You can never guarantee that your track is dead level to within a few thou, or indeed that it will stay that way.  Anyone who has tried to run a bare chassis with no weight on it will testify that it will run like a pig, stuttering along.  Blue-tac some weight onto it and it will run much better because the wheels are making firmer contact with the rail.  An added advantage is that, to a limited extent, you can redistribute the weight depending on where you put the rocker.  For example on my 2-2-2WT I put the rocker as near to the driving wheels as I could to get as much weight as possible on them for traction.  This turned out to be not such a good idea as there was then not enough weight on the front wheels to keep them on the track!  A couple of chunks of lead glued to the inside front of the beams greatly helped this, but then later adding a DCC decoder into the cab roof moved the CoG back and upset things again!  One day I will have a rethink and see what solution I can come up with, but it's not a priority at the moment.

 

As Tim says compensation predates Simpson Springs by some time.  I first tried it on my 498 class 0-6-0T back in the mid 70's and was so impressed with the improvement in running that I've adopted it ever since.  It certainly involves more complication than SS, and though it works for me I wouldn't recommend it for a first build.

 

Jim

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Progress has been slow over the past week due to other things getting in the way and also encountering a few issues along the way, mainly down to the tight clearances in places meaning that several small pieces of tissue paper and 10thou styrene have had to be glued in place to prevent shorting along with a bit of judicious filing here and there.

 

The motor mount has been cut from 9mm tubing and the etched fittings added along with mounting the worm on the motor.

 

1543840174_Framesmotormountmotor.JPG.0a17295105c0a707a9534d582b9b8d66.JPG

 

From top to bottom, the frames (with a temporary front axle in place to stop the front beams from dropping down and getting bent accidentally), the motor mount and the motor with leads attached.

 

The mount is fixed to the frames by the 12BA screw which threads into the hole immediately behind the worm wheel.  This rear etched part also incorporates the sides of the firebox, as can be seen in the photo below.  The lug which can just be seen projecting from the front end hooks under the front spacer.

 

944824105_motorinplace.JPG.dace8e281dccda5caf8617e8166e6448.JPG

 

The motor is a tight fit in the mount and is secured at the front by a very short 14BA screw, being held down at the back by the ring of remaining tube.  Two little lugs which you can see on the inside of the firebox area in the top photo keep the wires clear of the worm.  The decoder and stay-alives (4 x 220µf) will be in the bunker with the connection to them going under the cab floor.

 

The reversing lever had to be fitted to the motor mount as it is slightly inside the widest part of the boiler, so if it was attached to the body, the latter wouldn't fit over the mount.  The injector pipe work and clack valves will also be fitted to the mount, but not until after painting as they are polished copper and brass.

 

The motor has been run from a 9v battery and all is well as far as that is concerned.

 

Jim 

Edited by Caley Jim
Edited to add photos
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That's neat Jim.

 

Do the screw mounts allow the meshing to be adjusted or is that set form the start?

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19 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

[...]

595035172_Framesmotormountmotor.JPG.df150ff264fb4b670dada665bc84c7cb.JPG

 

[...]

1046122504_motorinplace.JPG.193937d8607e3ceb8cc8691f67615e40.JPG

 

[...]

I can't see any of these two pictures, just the links. When clicked it returns:

 

"Not Found

The requested URL /community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/595035172_Framesmotormountmotor.JPG.df150ff264fb4b670dada665bc84c7cb.JPG was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request."

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1 hour ago, Valentin said:

I can't see any of these two pictures, just the links. When clicked it returns:

Sorry, folks.

 

I had a glitch while typing the post and did a copy and paste into a new post and forgot to re-inset the photos, so only the links to them on my computer appeared.  Fixed now.

 

Jim

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21 hours ago, Argos said:

That's neat Jim.

 

Do the screw mounts allow the meshing to be adjusted or is that set form the start?

Thanks, Angus.

 

The screw holding the motor is purely to stop any chance of it rotating as it's a pretty tight fit, though it could be moved fore and aft by about ½mm.  Any adjustment of the worm/wormwheel meshing could be done with packing under the rear part of the mount, but this didn't prove necessary.  One of the benefits of drawing up everything carefully in CAD first.

 

Jim

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Apologies for the delay in reporting further progress, but the latter has been hampered by a number of things getting in the way.   The main one of these was the realisation that i had omitted to put the artwork for the cosmetic frames, which will sit outside the functional frames and carry the brake gear, on the sheet for etching!  :banghead: I've therefore spent some time sorting out artwork for some other ideas I've had and also a few things that I've been asked for.  That sheet (including the cosmetic frames this time!) has now gone to PPD and should be here in the next 10 days or so.

 

There has been some progress, however.  The stay-alive components have been wired up and attached to the chip.

 

Wiring.JPG.f7e4eb5c6019411d534854f480169a30.JPG

This comprises 4x220µf tantalum capacitors lying on their side.  These are connected by two L-shaped strips of copper shim , the short legs of which bend up onto the top of the pcb seen at the left.  this carries the diodes and resistor and is in turn wired to the CTElectronik DCX 76z chip via some fine varnished and double cotton covered wire I have.  (The white and yellow wires for lights have been removed from the chip as, for my purposes, they are redundant.)  This has all then been wrapped in PTFE tape to insulate it all from the bodywork and will sit, with the capacitors to the top, in the bunker.  Photos of this in the next post which will have to wait until this evening as we now have to go and collect the grandchildren from the school.

 

Jim

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1583387191_stay-alive1.JPG.c735370d174352a6df81534f579f3159.JPG

An overhead view of the electronics wrapped in PTFE tape and sitting at the rear of the frames.  I wanted to be able to remove the motor without the need to un-solder the wires.  A strip of ultra thin pcb, narrow enough to fit between the tabs attaching the frames to the pcb spacers and with the copper removed from one side, was gapped down the centre of the other side.  A couple of fine tubes were made by wrapping fine copper wire (one strand from multi-flex cable) round some 0.3mm stainless steel wire and flooding it with solder.  One of these was soldered to each side of the pcb strip and it in turn cyano glued between the aforementioned tabs.  A short piece of 10thou p/b wire was glued to the end of each motor lead, these having been cut to the appropriate length. These wires then fit into the tubes, making a removable connection from the motor leads to the pcb.  A thin strip of tissue paper was wrapped around the leads just behind the wire 'pins' and fixed in place with cyano, securing the two leads together at the correct spacing to effectively produce a 2 pin plug.  The decoder leads to the motor are then soldered to the thin pcb and those from the frames soldered to the tabs on top of the frames.

 

668176807_stay-alive2.JPG.616784bd2fcead631ed02c46e3f8eef9.JPG

 

A view from the side showing that the electrical connections will be low enough to be hidden under the cab floor. Connecting the chassis up to my SPROG showed that everything works as intended and that it runs smoothly down to a slow speed - once I had removed the temporary front axle! (why did it keep showing a short?!).  What effect the stay-alive has remains to be seen when the wheels are fitted.

 

So far, so good, but....... an unforeseen problem has arisen.  The observant among parishioners will note a small spigot projecting from the boiler near the front, one on each side.  These are to mount the clack valves which, being polished brass, will be glued in place, along with their associated piping, over these spigots after painting is complete.  However, my original plan was that the footplate with the smokebox, saddle tank,cab and bunker attached to it would slide over the motor mount from above.   I now realise that once the clacks are in place this won't be possible unless an unsightly gap is left in the footplate and splashers to clear them and their pipes.   :blush:

 

My alternative plan now is to attach the footplate, with the splashers and bunker, to the motor mounting and then have the smokebox, saddle tank and cab as a separate unit.  Watch this space (but don't hold your breath!).

 

Jim

Edited by Caley Jim
Edited to acknowledge the help of Nigel Cliffe with the electronics.
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Well, progress has been rather slow over the past few weeks for a number of reasons.  First, as i noted in an earlier post, I discovered that I had omitted to include the cosmetic frames in the etch on which I included all the other parts.  Fortunately I had a number of etched things which I had been asked for and also a couple of ideas I wanted to try, so I had to spend some time getting all the artwork together and sending it off to PPD.

 

The footplate which came with the original body etch required a lot of it cut away in order for the mechanism to fit through it and so one of the parts i got etched was a layer to go below this which has the buffer beams folding down from either end and fits between the valences.  The splasher sides fold up from the original footplate with the tops of the front sand boxes, and the front splashers, folding down from the former.  This didn't produce a very sharp angle between the top and the sides, so I separated the former and soldered them on as a separate part.  I also soldered a little piece of scrap etch into the front as the front of the smokebox will be part of the smokebox/tank/cab assembly, with the front fitting between the front of the sandboxes and the rear of the 'piano front' valve chest cover.   The footplate assembly was attached to the firebox sides and a couple of strips of scrap etch soldered in to brace the front of the footplate against the motor mount front.

 

Then came two steps back!  I discovered that the chip was blown, registering as a short and getting very hot!  The stay-alive/chip assembly was only held by the wires and the chip was only held in place on this by the PTFE tape wrapped around it.  During checking the opening below where the bunker would be to see that this fitted through it had been waggling about.    The wire I had used to link to the stay-alive was very fine cotton covered, multi strand, enamelled wire which was difficult to solder and I can only assume that one or two strands had come adrift and touched something else on the chip, shorting it.  I tried to source a replacement chip, but it would appear that CTelektronik chips are all but unobtainable at the moment.  I therefore looked around for an alternative and settled on a Zimo MX616 which is only slightly larger, but has the advantage of having relatively generous pads in one corner to which to attache the stay-alive wiring.   In fact, the way it sits, i was able to connect the +ve pad directly to the circuitry via a wee piece of copper shim, with a piece of the decoder wire making the -ve connection.

 

Meanwhile I assembled the bunker onto the footplate and then discovered that the capacitors were a fraction too big to fit lengthwise into the bunker as intended.  Yet another change of plan!  I worked out that the whole assembly, with the new chip, could sit vertically in the bunker, albeit projecting a couple of mm above the sides.  This is not too much of a problem,however, as most photos of these locos show them with a variety of makeshift extensions to the bunker sides to increase the capacity.

 

So, the new chip has been fitted and tested and all seems to be well.  This time a small piece of blu-tack attaches it to the capacitors and the whole thing is again wrapped in PTFE tape.  In addition the inside rear of the bunker has been lined with tissue paper attached with cyano as additional insulation.175374759_Footplateframes1.JPG.21028a6ee42c9bee5a955b9274d683d5.JPG

Here we have the footplate/bunker/ motor mount assembly with the frames sitting in front and below shows the footplate mounted on the frames.  The wiring will be hidden under the cab floor.

 

1377185752_Footplateframes2.JPG.f2b3ee0e298c1c620c20591e7bfcd86d.JPG

Jim

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The cab has now been assembled, though this was not without its problems!  Getting the curves of the one-piece wrap-over roof and sides of the Stirling style cab to match the profile of the front took quite some time, then I found that the sides were a fraction too long and projected below the front, easily fixed with some judicious filing.  A second issue was that the side of the cab entrances were about 1mm higher than those on the bunker.  The drawing and all the photos I've seen show these as level with one another.  This time a round file was used to effectively 'move' the curved section down the side by the required amount.  The beading was then added in fine copper wire.   I also fitted the spectacle window surrounds provided on the etch, though they should properly be in brass.

 

The cab floor and internal splashers are provided as a one piece fold-up part.  Some of the fold lines had not etched particularly well, but this can be an issue where the original artwork has been drawn for a larger scale, and the lines were improved by scrawking with the back of the tip of a craft knife.   Once folded up, however it became clear that 1) the width across the splashers was less than that between the inner faces of the cab sides and 2) the tops of the splashers were too high.  I therefore separated the splashers from the floor, fitted them separately with their bases flush with the bottom of the sides (which put them at the correct height) and then offered the floor in between them.

 

With the section of the latter which goes between the cab and bunker aligned centrally with the cab sides the LH side was neatly against the splasher, but there was a ½mm gap between the floor and the splasher on the RH side.  The floor was soldered in place and the gap filled with a small bit of scrap etch jammed into place and soldered from below.   The reversing lever, again filed up from scrap etch surround, was then soldered to the inside of the LH splasher.


77506300_Cabfront.JPG.fae8dce49036073f8733788b6b69f753.JPG1578360734_Cabrear.JPG.01730f79c31faf8bfd64b4c6ed8006fc.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The resultant assembly was a neat fit between the rear plate of the motor mount and the bunker, however there was a slight gap on either side between the cab front and the sides of the lower boiler and firebox.  Bearing in mind that the cab/tank/smokebox was to be a separate unit, this was addressed by soldering some fine copper wire to the outer rear corners of the boiler and firebox with a generous amount of solder, filing it to the profile and then carefully filing back the rear until the cab front butted up neatly against them.  something of a bodge, but it should be well hidden behind a coat or two of paint!  You can just make out the copper showing at the edge in the photo below.

 

924698046_Cabinsitu.JPG.9ef4a115c98559e3787aa3a4d168a701.JPG

 

Jim

Edited by Caley Jim
edited to adjust photo sizes
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Thanks for all the kind comments.

 

A little more work last night.  The bunker extensions have been added and a 'frame' of copper shim strips formed which will have tissue paper glued over it to which the coal load will then be glued.

 

16931296_Bunkerextensions.JPG.af3254d868d114126559ec99068a7ff2.JPG

 

The extensions are made from some scrap 10 thou etch frame, scribed to represent planks.  I wasn't too particular in getting them neat so as to emulate the rather makeshift nature of some of those in photos.  I used 10thou in order not to interfere with the close fit of the stay-alive unit and indeed the lower inner edges are chamfered.  In order to make the 'planks' look thicker some fine copper wire was soldered to the top inner edges with a generous amount of solder and the tops filed flat.  Some thick copper wire had a small bit at one end filed to a square section and short pieces of this were soldered in the front corners to represent the bits of wood reinforcing these corners.

 

Jim.

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Hello Jim,

 

Inspirational stuff. You must have built your last loco around the time I joined the 2mmSA. I'm also building an 0-6-0T atm. and am curious how you will access the motor, which you have made effort to make easily replaced from a wiring pov., when the rest of the boiler is in place? I ask because I may have a similar problem with how to get the underside of boiler through the footplate and/or hide the join.

 

TIA,

 

Richard. 

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Thanks Richard. This being a saddle tank, the smoke box, tank and cab will be a separate assembly which will slip over the top of the motor and be held in place by a screw coming up into the bottom of the smoke box. This can be removed to access the motor.   At least that is the plan at the moment until some other unforseen issue makes a further change of plan necessary!

As you will see from earlier posts it was my intention that the footplate etc would also be part of this until I realised that the clacks on the side of the boiler would not allow the footplate to drop past them. 

 

To remove the motor you need to first remove the chassis as the motor has to be angled up at the front to slide it out from under the top section of the motor mount.   This makes the worm angle down, which it can't do because of the worm wheel while it's still attached to the chassis.   

 

Jim 

Edited by Caley Jim
Edited to add the bit about removing the chassis before you can remove the motor.

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Next to be tackled was the smokebox.  The main body of this is a length of the same 9mmod tube as was used for the underside of the boiler/motor mount, cut away to sit over the front end of the motor.  Around this was soldered the smokebox wrapper from the etch.  With this held firmly in place on the footplate and chassis, a drill was passed up through the 12BA clearing hole in the front spacer and rotated a few time to mark where the hole lined up with the underside of the smokebox.  A 1mm (12BA tapping) hole was then drilled and tapped and a screw passed up from below and tightened until the smokebox top was held level.  My original plan was to solder a 12BA nut on the inside to make a more secure attachment and rely on the smokebox front to stop the whole thing tipping forward when the screw was tightened, however I found that a 12BA nut was exactly the right thickness to act a a spacer between the smokebox and the underframe (there is none of the footplate present in this area, the front splashers/sandboxes having been folded up from here) so one was soldered on underneath instead.  The smokebox front from the etch was then soldered in place.

 

1706305094_Smokeboxassembly.JPG.bd1af74f733f704bcec25ceb5134881a.JPG

 

The smokebox door was made by my usual Heath Robinson method of cutting a disc of copper shim using my dividers, placing it on a lead anvil with the ball of a ball peen hammer centred over it and whacking the head of the hammer with another one until the disc is domed to the required degree!  The door was then reinforced on the inside with with a generous amount of solder and then secured centrally on the front.  The door hinges were built up from fine copper wire with the straps cut from some long half-etched tags salvaged from one of my etches.  The top and bottom fixings are short pieces of thicker copper wire.

The last items to be added at this stage were the handrail knobs made by winding fine brass wire a couple of times round a 1/64" drill, twisting the ends together and cutting them off short enough to fit into the holes which had been drilled into the end of the tube, guided by the etched holes in the front.  They were soldered into the holes while mounted on the drill to avoid them getting filled with solder.

 

The door wheel and handle and lubricators (in the two lower holes) will not be added until after painting.

 

639060089_Smokeboxinsitu.JPG.55811a2b0da14c316ae8d5f331938510.JPG

 

The gaps on either side between the smokebox unit and the boiler underside will be covered by the saddle tank, which will be the next thing to be made up.

 

Jim

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Making up the tank was not as straightforward as it might have been.  There was no top for this included on the original etch, only front and rear panels, so I added one to the last sheet I did, including holes for the handrail knobs.  While bending up the curves on the cab sides/roof it occurred to me that it would have been a good idea to etch the top as half thickness as this would have made bending the tight curves at the bottom easier.  I therefore filed down the the inner surface of the lower edges on a long taper to almost a knife edge.  Even so, forming the various curves was not straightforward and I was almost on the point of abandoning it, printing out a template and making a new one in 5thou brass.  Perseverance triumphed, however and, although it's far from perfect, it will have to do.

 

2136123080_Tankassembly.JPG.fe532457464c98300928344e119bdc72.JPG

 

Before attaching the tank to the smokebox I cut back the section of the latter which overhung the motor, leaving only a millimetre or so to make it easier to fit some lead sheet into the tank later.  This can be seen in the underside view of the smokebox/tank/cab assembly below.

 

1764496451_Smokebaxtankcabassemblyunderside.JPG.51adc39005e44984887cf22816cd87c0.JPG

 

The securing nut and the 'tails' of the handrail knobs can also be seen.  And from the top :-

 

906038430_Smokebaxtankcabassembly.JPG.3f3863afdf9d037e27c2cebe3eba0a26.JPG 

 

With this in place it's beginning to look more like a loco.  I found that the underside of the front panel was not a particularly good fit on the smokebox, however the gap was filled with a representation of the angle iron which covered this joint on the prototype, the vertical part of this being provided on the original etch and the horizontal part mead from a thin strip of copper shim.

 

718279229_tankassembyinsitufront.JPG.e8e0d6875bedca847ad297672ae24f94.JPG

 

1981374375_tankassembyinsiturear.JPG.c5df817ad896a41559879fd51a5ac846.JPG

 

The trusty Black and Decker drill will have to come out now to turn the boiler fittings

 

Jim

  • Like 7
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2

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