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Lima non-aircon Mk2 flush glazing?


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I recently purchased two Lima non-aircon Mk2's from eBay and would like to add flush glazing to them. However, I have a few questions.

 

1. Is SE Finecast the only available option? Their website is down, and I'm not 100% sure on which of their items I should order. (The product numbers of both coaches start with 305, but according to the SEF website when I checked yesterday, their '305' windows were for Mk2E and F coaches.)

 

2. If there are other options available, which are the easiest to install?

 

3. Seeing as the original Lima glazing is actually part of what holds the coaches together, what type of technique do you guys use to hold the roof in place after removing the original glazing?

 

Any and all help is welcome.

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The only flush glazing I have come across is the SE finecast stuff. They do it for the Lima Mk2 non air con too.

 

It isn’t plug and play - you need to file out each window aperture slightly to get it to fit. 

 

The roof will still click in place. The door glazing is part of what holds the roof on and is quite flush. You don’t need to replace that and that should be enough to hold it. 

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The kit does all types of Lima mk2b non air-con.

if you get them direct from southeast, the price can be better than some eBay items.

 

You do have to file out the small windows quite a bit otherwise the ‘glass’ gets squashed! The air-con coaches are easier, only four sides per window!

1087D1BA-3BC9-4667-AD6F-61B1631CBD9D.png

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SE37 is indeed the one you want and they are currently £2:50 per pack direct from SE Finecast plus P&P although the price list is dated March 2017 so it might be worth giving them a call to check-

 

Tel 01342 82 4711

 

is the number from their website.

Edited by royaloak
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1 hour ago, sub39h said:

The only flush glazing I have come across is the SE finecast stuff. They do it for the Lima Mk2 non air con too.

 

It isn’t plug and play - you need to file out each window aperture slightly to get it to fit. 

 

The roof will still click in place. The door glazing is part of what holds the roof on and is quite flush. You don’t need to replace that and that should be enough to hold it. 

 

While I am aware that they make them for non-aircon Mk2's as well, I was confused by the catalogue numbers. As I said, my coaches both start with 305, but the kit that includes 305 numbers is listed as "Mk2E/F." But as muddy has explained, the windows I'm looking for are apparently included in the "301/302/303/308" set.

 

I don't mind doing a bit of filing. Actually quite used to it, having built a small fleet of H0-scale coach kits.

 

The door glazing? As far as I can recall, without having the coach in front of me, that was as sunk in as the rest of the windows. Might have to reassemble one of them to check.

 

41 minutes ago, muddy water said:

The kit does all types of Lima mk2b non air-con.

if you get them direct from southeast, the price can be better than some eBay items.

 

You do have to file out the small windows quite a bit otherwise the ‘glass’ gets squashed! The air-con coaches are easier, only four sides per window!

1087D1BA-3BC9-4667-AD6F-61B1631CBD9D.png

 

So that pack is for all non-aircon Mk2's, even though my ones start with 305?

 

Filing out the smaller windows might be a bit more challenging than what I've done so far, but if it will improve the looks of the models, I'll give it a go.

 

20 minutes ago, royaloak said:

SE37 is indeed the one you want and they are currently £2:50 per pack direct from SE Finecast plus P&P although the price list is dated March 2017 so it might be worth giving them a call to check-

 

Tel 01342 82 4711

 

is the number from their website.

 

As I don't live in the UK, I'd prefer to contact them via e-mail, but as long as I have the catalogue number I can at least look them up.

 

Thanks for the help!

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Rather than filing the excess plastic from the insides of the windows I found it was easier, quicker and cleaner to get in there with a sharp long scalpel blade. Don't be tempted to force the glazing into a tight aperture as it will distort and look horrible.

 

The door fitting for the roof that someone referred to was probably the gangway doors

 

You can saw off the side glazing from the roof but leave some plastic at the top for rigidity but not too much or it will foul the new glazing. 

 

I did a rake of these and the rooves fit Ok this way but you get the unsightly joins at each end. I wonder if it would be better to glue the roof on to the shell and fill these gaps. The chassis would then have to be modified to make it easier to detach from the bodyshell.

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Well, I do have two scalpels at home, so that could be an option.

 

Didn't even notice that the gangway doors had any windows in them, to be honest. Is that what the roof end clips are?

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Sorry, I might be talking rubbish and confusing the mk2 roof end fitting with a mk1. 

 

 

Yes, the roof on the mk2 has tabs at each end that clip under the domed roof ends of the coach body. If you trim off the side glazing from the roof mould you lose the mountings from the bottom of the glazing that hold the roof section to the body but you should be ok with just the end tabs.

 

Another thing with the SE flushglazing is that you'll have to cut the three smaller top-lights away from the main window and fit them separately.

 

 

Edited by Andrew F
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3 hours ago, Andrew F said:

Another thing with the SE flushglazing is that you'll have to cut the three smaller top-lights away from the main window and fit them separately.

 

 

Andrew,

 

In my experience of fitting SE37 to ~15 Lima Mk2b coaches, you can install the 4-panes (main + 3 top-lights) in one go for 'most' of the windows. The SE Finecast 'mouldings' do seem to vary quite a bit (even in the same packet ...), but so you only have to resort to individual panes when problems occur.

 

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Hi Folks,

 

My tip for using SE Finecast flush glazing is to use PVA wood glue as the adhesive for it does not fog the glazing material and should you get it on to the glazing it may be removed, washed off with water and once dry refitted. I fit the glazing and then use a fine paint brush to go around the edges of the pieces as fitted with the glue working it under the flanged edges, with the added bonus being that it dries clear should you miss a bit.

 

Gibbo.

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1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

My tip for using SE Finecast flush glazing is to use PVA wood glue as the adhesive for it does not fog the glazing material and should you get it on to the glazing it may be removed, washed off with water and once dry refitted. I fit the glazing and then use a fine paint brush to go around the edges of the pieces as fitted with the glue working it under the flanged edges, with the added bonus being that it dries clear should you miss a bit.

 

Gibbo.

Giibo,

 

Thanks for that. I'd been using Plastic Magic and using capillary action to get it all around the frame. Even then I had to sometimes use clips to press the frame in to get a good contact. I can see how PVA would make removal better, but how long does it take to dry and how do you keep the frame in good contact?

 

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2 minutes ago, ISW said:

Giibo,

 

Thanks for that. I'd been using Plastic Magic and using capillary action to get it all around the frame. Even then I had to sometimes use clips to press the frame in to get a good contact. I can see how PVA would make removal better, but how long does it take to dry and how do you keep the frame in good contact?

 

Hi Ian,

 

I make sure that each window fits and stays seated in place before applying the glue, this is at times quite tricky. If I have a window that pops out, I leave it until last and hold it position with a match stick or similar for as long as it takes.

The glue usually gets hold in about ten minutes and within a few hours it is pretty much solid to the point that any attempt at removal of the window will damage it. I use a waterproof grade because that is what I use generally, I would presume that a non waterproof grade would soften and dissolve should the need arise to remove the windows.

 

Gibbo.

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7 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Ian,

 

I make sure that each window fits and stays seated in place before applying the glue, this is at times quite tricky. If I have a window that pops out, I leave it until last and hold it position with a match stick or similar for as long as it takes.

The glue usually gets hold in about ten minutes and within a few hours it is pretty much solid to the point that any attempt at removal of the window will damage it. I use a waterproof grade because that is what I use generally, I would presume that a non waterproof grade would soften and dissolve should the need arise to remove the windows.

 

Gibbo.

Gibbo,

 

Seems we have similar installation issues / problems. Just a different glue!

 

Out of interest, how are you ensuring the seat moulding stays in it's correct place, as it retains the steel weight in the base?

 

I've been cutting out the acetate window moulding, leaving ~3mm along the cantrail to keep the roof alignment. However, I leave the full height of the original acetate windows in 'strategic' places (eg: between windows / doors) to press down on the seat moulding. If I can, I like to keep the original 'retainers' at the bottom of the acetate window moulding (with some clever cutting ...) to help pull the roof down and avoid 'gaps' along the cantrail. I found this to be more essential with Lima Mk1 coaches, in particular the brake corridor second model.

 

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3 minutes ago, ISW said:

Gibbo,

 

Seems we have similar installation issues / problems. Just a different glue!

 

Out of interest, how are you ensuring the seat moulding stays in it's correct place, as it retains the steel weight in the base?

 

I've been cutting out the acetate window moulding, leaving ~3mm along the cantrail to keep the roof alignment. However, I leave the full height of the original acetate windows in 'strategic' places (eg: between windows / doors) to press down on the seat moulding. If I can, I like to keep the original 'retainers' at the bottom of the acetate window moulding (with some clever cutting ...) to help pull the roof down and avoid 'gaps' along the cantrail. I found this to be more essential with Lima Mk1 coaches, in particular the brake corridor second model.

 

Hi Ian,

 

I can't comment upon Lima Mk2 coaches for I don't have any, I have fitted SE Finecast glazing to  locomotives and various Hornby coaches.

 

Gibbo.

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8 hours ago, ISW said:

If I can, I like to keep the original 'retainers' at the bottom of the acetate window moulding (with some clever cutting ...) to help pull the roof down and avoid 'gaps' along the cantrail.

 

 

That sounds like a pretty good idea, actually. Might try to do that as well.

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13 hours ago, LU_fan said:

 

That sounds like a pretty good idea, actually. Might try to do that as well.

LU (?),

 

I don't know how you, or plan to, cut the Lima window acetate mouldings, but I use a cutting wheel in a dremel clone. This does allow for fairly speedy and relatively accurate cutting, but the heat generated by the cutting wheel does tend to melt the plastic and produce burrs on the cut faces that need to be removed afterwards by scraping with a sharp knife.

 

If you've heard of any better method(s) I would like to hear about them.

 

Also, for the frosted windows (toilets etc.) I usually leave the existing acetate moulding in place. This creates quite a good / realistic effect 'inside' the SE Finecast windows.

 

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5 hours ago, ISW said:

LU (?),

 

I don't know how you, or plan to, cut the Lima window acetate mouldings, but I use a cutting wheel in a dremel clone. This does allow for fairly speedy and relatively accurate cutting, but the heat generated by the cutting wheel does tend to melt the plastic and produce burrs on the cut faces that need to be removed afterwards by scraping with a sharp knife.

 

If you've heard of any better method(s) I would like to hear about them.

 

Also, for the frosted windows (toilets etc.) I usually leave the existing acetate moulding in place. This creates quite a good / realistic effect 'inside' the SE Finecast windows.

 

 

Well, the first tip that I received was to tape a steel ruler to the glazing and drag a sharp knife along it until it's thin enough to snap without completely breaking the rest. I don't know if that's a "better" method, but I've got a dremel and two coaches to try the techniques on.

 

I was just thinking of painting those windows white on the inside, but if it works I might use your approach instead.

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7 hours ago, LU_fan said:

 

Well, the first tip that I received was to tape a steel ruler to the glazing and drag a sharp knife along it until it's thin enough to snap without completely breaking the rest. I don't know if that's a "better" method, but I've got a dremel and two coaches to try the techniques on.

 

I was just thinking of painting those windows white on the inside, but if it works I might use your approach instead.

Hi Lu_fan,

 

I cut the glazing out with a small set of scissors.

 

As for obscure glass, I find that white can sometimes be to stark, either a pale grey or depending on prototype rough the inside of the glazing with fine wet and dry paper. Perhaps experiment on a scrap piece to achieve the right effect.

 

Gibbo.

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9 hours ago, LU_fan said:

I was just thinking of painting those windows white on the inside, but if it works I might use your approach instead.

 

That's what I did to start with. It looks 'alright', but as soon as you see a recent RTR coach it's really not good. Too 'stark'. Leaving the existing shaded / painted Lima window acetate behind is much more effective / realistic.

 

 

2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

As for obscure glass, I find that white can sometimes be to stark, either a pale grey or depending on prototype rough the inside of the glazing with fine wet and dry paper. Perhaps experiment on a scrap piece to achieve the right effect.

 

Gibbo.

 

Gibbo,

 

Pale grey would look much better than white, but it looks even better is it's 'set back 'from the SE Finecast window. And you don't need to paint if you use the existing Lima painted acetate window.

 

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LU / Gibbo,

 

Here are a few photos to show the possible methods for opaque windows:

 

LH - Clear SE Finecast window with original Lima window left in place.

RH - SE Finecast window painted white on inside (actually tippex ...)

20190731_111428.jpg.a57b101deabcb80e64f068513e96f303.jpg

 

And now lined with with an RTR:

LH - Mainline MK1 coach 

20190731_111519.jpg.42cc852aa2fcf7f04004b929e48c2fe6.jpg

 

I thought a few photos would be the easiest way to show / explain.

 

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LU,

 

And here are a few photos of the 'inside' of a Lima coach (Mk1 BSK) with the roof removed. You can see the way I cut out the existing Lima acetate window moulding and where I left it in place for toilets and to press down on the coach interior. You may also notice where I've 'extended' the existing acetate so that it reaches the interior moulding (the Lima method is to put upstands / cutouts on the interior moulding to reach up to the lower edge of the acetate and these doesn't always align after all the cutouts on the acetate).

 

If the interior moulding can move / lift, it stops retaining the steel weight underneath, which then rattles about. Not nice.

 

20190731_113808.jpg.64ef619eb0f42e8a325db0a8db1f7c68.jpg

 

20190731_113914.jpg.f5560625359d08f4471f954ee34d65ee.jpg

 

Hope this helps.

 

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