Landguard Point tramway

[Chris Turnbull]

I have long been intrigued by the remains of the tramway at Landguard Point, Felixstowe as shown on this map:  

 

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/628289/231420/12/100537

 

And here are three photos of its remains taken on 26th July.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have tried a Google search but have found little.  Any information would be appreciated.

 

Chris Turnbull

 

[The Johnster]

Even if you don't get in info, the photos are an inspiration to anyone wanting to replicate weathered wood!

 

It pretty obviously fed a loading jetty, which I am mentally picturing with a Thames Barge moored to it.  Felixtowe's cargo handling regime has developed a little since this was used...

[Nearholmer]

Maps show it from the late 1870s, and if you follow them through time, you can see that the tip of the point has been reinforced, presumably to prevent longshore drift eating it away, so i’d bet that it relates to building “cribbing” to trap shingle, and the hard breakwater.

 

It might also have been used to service the various lights, getting there by boat being easier than land in days gone by.

 

I very much doubt it relates to loading/unloading commercial vessels, because the location was so utterly isolated, and not at all sheltered.

 

Amazingly, you can see the tramway in this photo of the former lighthouse. https://www.mycetes.co.uk/a/page32.html

 

The above speculation is wrong!

 

Here is the actuality:

 

In the late 1870s Harwich was selected as a harbour suitable for the deployment of mines, and a submarine mining depot was added to the fort, comprising a single storey ravelin block immediately to the west of the fortress. In this building, which now houses a museum, the mines were stored on trolleys which could be run out on a narrow gauge railway through a cutting in the glacis to a small jetty. Parts of the railway and of the wooden pilings of the jetty survive and are included in the scheduling, together with the ravelin block and two engine houses to the rear of it.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Johann Marsbar]

The tramway gets a mention in this report, along with a mention of the other lines that serviced the shooting ranges.....

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1018969

Haven't got any books to hand here (all at the new house...) but I seem to think there was a horse worked line connecting the Town with the Fort that pre-dated the 1877 Felixtowe rail line, but didn't operate for very long.

Edited July 30, 2019 by Johann Marsbar

[Chris Turnbull]

Thank you so much for all your replies.  I particularly like the photograph of the track in front of the old lighthouse.  Next time I am down there I will try to remember to take a tape measure with me to get some idea of the track gauge.

 

I don't think this tramway is anything to do with the railway for transporting mines as this line is shown to the north of, and separate from, my tramway and runs from a couple of buildings to a jetty as noted in the text.  Similarly, the tramway for servicing the rifle ranges is also a separate system shown on the same map to the northeast (along the coastline).  I rather like the idea that it was used for maintenance but please prove me wrong.

 

Please keep the ideas coming.

 

Chris Turnbull 

[Nearholmer]

OK, if it isn’t the one for mines, I go back to the speculation that I declared wrong!

[Johann Marsbar]

After looking at various publications this morning, I've come up with the following..........

 

a) "Landguard Fort, Felixstowe" by D.A.Wood which was produced (presumably  by the Landguard Fort Trust) in 1997, has most of an A4 page side on the mine tramway, which operated from 1880 to 1904. It mentions that a short section of track from this "network" remains in a gap in the defensive walls on the west side of the fort (and it reminded me that I saw the rails when I looked round there many years ago). The seperate "self guided tour" leaflet from 1999 quotes 18" gauge as being used for this line.

 

b) Beyond the fort based publications, there is mention in the Oakwood/Quayle & Bradbury "The Felixstowe Railway" book (1978), that refers to a 2' gauge (????) line that ran from a pier on the river and across Landguard Common to a point somewhere at the southern end of what is now Felixstowe Prom. It is variously described as a "one horse tram" or even a loco + 2 carriages, and appears to have operated for a couple of years up to when the F.D.& R.C line was opened from Westerfield to Felixstowe Pier in 1877. They also quote that the Rapier loco "Pioneer" was supposedly tested on this line at Easter 1875 (according to Richard Rapier himself) before it was dispatched to China to operate the Shanghai-Woosung Tramway!!

This tramway also gets a mention in one of the "Felixstowe" series of locally produced hardback books as well, quoting operating dates of 1874-1878, from memory.

There are no mentions in the R.S.Joby (1977) and Ipswich Transport Museum (2003/2009) produced books on the Felixstowe Branch, though I did mention the WW1 vintage line from Felixstowe Town Station to Brackenbury Fort in the latter publication!  (which was lightly laid standard gauge track)

 

I don't know whether there any mentions of the Landguard area in the Middleton Press book or the Ipswich-Felixstowe branch through time (Amberley Publishing) book as I never bothered buying copies of either of them!!

Edited July 31, 2019 by Johann Marsbar

[Wickham Green]

Anyone got access to the appropriate Industrial Railway Society volume ? ..... they manage to track down some very obscure lines. 

[Chris Turnbull]

6 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

b) Beyond the fort based publications, there is mention in the Oakwood/Quayle & Bradbury "The Felixstowe Railway" book (1978), that refers to a 2' gauge (????) line that ran from a pier on the river and across Landguard Common to a point somewhere at the southern end of what is now Felixstowe Prom. It is variously described as a "one horse tram" or even a loco + 2 carriages, and appears to have operated for a couple of years up to when the F.D.& R.C line was opened from Westerfield to Felixstowe Pier in 1877. They also quote that the Rapier loco "Pioneer" was supposedly tested on this line at Easter 1875 (according to Richard Rapier himself) before it was dispatched to China to operate the Shanghai-Woosung Tramway!!

This tramway also gets a mention in one of the "Felixstowe" series of locally produced hardback books as well, quoting operating dates of 1874-1878, from memory.

There are no mentions in the R.S.Joby (1977) and Ipswich Transport Museum (2003/2009) produced books on the Felixstowe Branch, though I did mention the WW1 vintage line from Felixstowe Town Station to Brackenbury Fort in the latter publication!  (which was lightly laid standard gauge track)

 

 

This is yet another of Felixstowe's long-lost railways!  It is shown on the 1881 1:2500 map.

 

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/629204/233334/12/101302

 

As you can see, it ran from Beach Station Road along Carr Road to a terminus close to Felixstowe Pier station.

 

Thank you for a great post containing much information of which I was not aware especially the line to Brackenbury Fort.  

 

Chris Turnbull

[Johann Marsbar]

I'll dig out my copy of the Ransomes & Rapier Locomotives book by Keith Halton later on today and see whether that makes any reference in it to "Pioneer" being tested at Felixstowe. Have got the IRS East Anglia book as well.

Nobody has yet produced a fully comprehensive history of the railway to Felixstowe and the other lines in the general area, which given it's importance today, is an odd omission, particularly when substantial volumes are produced on other, more minor, lines elsewhere.

Presumably that's why the ITM produced one has sold so well over the years (currently on its second (2009) edition, though I've been asked to update it over the winter....).

[Chris Turnbull]

Yes, a comprehensive book on the railways of Felixstowe certainly seems overdue.  I make it five tramways in addition to the standard gauge line plus the railway on the Town Pier and Felixstowe Miniature Steam Railway.  Put me down for a copy!

 

Chris Turnbull 

[Johann Marsbar]

The IRS "Industrial Locomotives of East Anglia" has the answers - or at least my 1993 version has...........

 

There is a sketch map of the Landguard area which shows the Fort mine tramway, the 1881 tramway which is the one you photographed the remains of and was not anything to do with the fort line, the 1874 tramway along Carr Road and even the rifle range target tramways.

 

The 1881 line (the one that passed the lighthouse) was another one built by Col. Tomline and was used to convey shingle from Landguard Point beacon to a jetty south of the Fort. It possibly dates from prior to 1881 and lasted until the mid 1950's. Stated to be used for loading unladen ships with ballast.

 

The Carr Road one was supposedly still intact, but disused, in 1881 and was definitely used to test Rapiers "Pioneer" in 1874. The loco tests are mentioned in the book on Rapier locomotives, following which the loco was altered to 2'6" gauge amongst other improvements before dispatch to China.

 

Wonder if they reused the rails/sleepers from the 1874 line for the 1881 one?

 

The Fort mine tramway jetty was directly in front of the fort itself, so didn't run along the river bank at all.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Johann Marsbar

[Wickham Green]

All these tramways are actually shown on the 'Old Map'  mentioned in Post # 1 :  https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/628289/231420/12/100537 ............ though you have to scroll around a bit to find them.

[Johann Marsbar]

50 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

All these tramways are actually shown on the 'Old Map'  mentioned in Post # 1 :  https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/628289/231420/12/100537 ............ though you have to scroll around a bit to find them.

 

When I looked at that site, it informed me I had to subscribe to view it at that resolution, so didn't bother.................

 

Just looked again and I've clicked on the "-" button and found it eventually comes up with the image at a suitably large resolution without subscribing, however the 1874 Tramway is not shown on that map.  There also was a short spur added to the "ballast" line in 1928 and the northern end of the line to the jetty was taken out of use.

 

[Chris Turnbull]

19 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

 

When I looked at that site, it informed me I had to subscribe to view it at that resolution, so didn't bother.................

 

Just looked again and I've clicked on the "-" button and found it eventually comes up with the image at a suitably large resolution without subscribing, however the 1874 Tramway is not shown on that map.  There also was a short spur added to the "ballast" line in 1928 and the northern end of the line to the jetty was taken out of use.

 

 

I use the mouse scroll wheel to change the resolution; my apologies for not pointing that out.

 

The map in my first post was the 1904 map by which time the 1874 tramway along Carr Road had been dismantled.  The link I gave in my third post was the 1881 map which does show the 1874 tramway although you may have to use the scroll wheel to see it.

 

Chris Turnbull

 

  

[melmerby]

Use the NLS maps, no charge for close ups:

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=18&lat=51.9345&lon=1.3184&layers=168&right=BingSat

or

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=51.9445&lon=1.3249&layers=168&b=1

Edited August 1, 2019 by melmerby

[Chris Turnbull]

Fascinating!  I always wondered what the jetty south of the Fort was for and now I know.  Here it is on 24th July 2018 being put to a new use by the Sky Arts camera crew filming the semi-final of Landscape Artist of the year. 

 

 

Chris Turnbull

[kernowtim]

My parents had friends with a static caravan on a site in manor road in Felixstowe so for some years up to about 1984 we stayed there for 2 weeks, i remember seeing rails embedded in concrete at landguard fort, near Darrells battery i think, and followed the tramway from the breakwater, also walked to the Town station which fascinated me at the time, derelict and seemingly abandoned apart from the line, later cut back , into one platform. Never took any photos of the fort but have a few of the station platforms! Took the train to Ipswich a few times too, sometimes even leaving the station to explore the town!

There was a minature railway on the seafront with an oval of track round a lawn, and another further out at Mannings amusement park, which also had a wooden roller coaster, Mad mouse? If that counts!

 

[Chris Turnbull]

Last Saturday (10th August) I thought I would go to Landguard Point and enjoy the waves crashing over the breakwater (this was the day of gale-force winds if you remember).  As the tide was as low as I have ever seen it the waves were nowhere near the breakwater but it did allow me to see some remains I was unaware of.

 

I have walked past this spot many times but had no idea that there was a narrow gauge mine-carrying tramway through the defensive walls of Landguard Fort ...

 

 

... and, turning round to face the sea, this is the remains of the pier for the narrow-gauge line.

 

 

This is the jetty at Conservancy Quay from the seaward side that the Sky Arts camera crew were using in my previous post.  How much is original I have no idea but I suspect that it is not much. 

 

 

The low tide also revealed the full extent of the breakwater at the seaward end of the Conservancy Quay tramway.  It was a bit longer than I thought!  It would be interesting to know how the shingle was dredged.

 

 

Chris Turnbull   

Edited August 13, 2019 by Chris Turnbull

[Keith Halton]

A bit late to the party, perhaps. but I've only just seen this thread (January 2021)! Johann Marsbar mentions my book on Ransomes and Rapier. When I was researching this book, about 20 years ago, I did delve into the tramways on Landguard Common and came to broadly the same conclusions as the various contributors to this thread.

 

The earliest line was that laid by Colonel Tomline from a point close to Beach Station Road, mostly alongside Carr Road, to a point near the Pier Hotel (and the pier on to which the standard gauge line from Westerfield ran). It was 2 foot gauge and I am satisfied that Ransomes and Rapier's first loco, PIONEER, was indeed tested there. This is supported by paperwork in the R&R archives. I have always been intrigued by the track plan for that tramway. Bearing in mind that this was laid in about 1877, 2 foot gauge locos were still in their infancy, so did Tomline really plan to use a loco? The map suggests that there were run-round loops at each end, but no engine shed, suggesting that it was either never completed or was to be horse-worked. I've never seen a horse use a run-round loop, so what was the purpose of the loops? Also, I've never found any account of the tramway being used, other than the one reference to PIONEER running on it. My conclusion is that it had little or no other use. It would seem quite plausible that it was lifted to provide materials for the tramway that ran from the lighthouse to the jetty on Landguard Point, shown in the postcard of the lighthouse.

 

Looking at the photo of the lighthouse, I am pretty sure that the track is 2 foot gauge, so could easily have been re-used from the earlier tramway. I think the purpose of this tramway was always to take materials to repair the breakwater and I suspect it was always hand-worked or perhaps horse worked, as pushing a truck full of ballast is hard work! The 25” OS map (source: National Library of Scotland) 1903 revision shows this tramway running for a distance of 650m from the tip of the breakwater to the Harwich Conservancy jetty. This jetty is at the location of the surviving jetty in Chris’s photos but the map suggests a different structure (the outline is different). I think this tramway may have been completely rebuilt at some stage, as the structure of the breakwater looks as if it carried standard gauge track. I have no evidence to support this, but I have always wondered if there may have been a railway crane in use here, to handle ballast. The 1886 6” map shows the tramway, but stopping near the lighthouse, and the map does not show the Conservancy jetty. There may have been a better road to the lighthouse by that date.

 

200m further north, we come to the jetty outside the fort and the mines research establishment. As has been noted, you can still see some track in the cutting that led from the mines research establishment to the jetty, and you can see the remains of the piles that supported this jetty. The tramway at the mines research establishment was 18" gauge, and if you go inside the Landguard Fort Museum, and go into the mines establishment, you will find a wagon turntable with three tracks radiating from it. One of these fed out into the cutting and ran on to the jetty (now gone) where the mines were loaded onto ships.

 

Using the overlay feature on the NLS maps website, you can see the proximity of all the Landguard jetties and the modern landscape. This reveals that there was another jetty directly in line with the end of the modern Viewpoint Road. I’m not sure what this was used for and I have so far not seen any map that shows track on this jetty, which was quite a large structure. From later maps, it seems to have gone by 1937.

 

Landguard Barracks once stood in the area now enclosed by the port, used for container storage. The OS map shows another pier with a tramway on it, 285m to the north of the one mentioned above. The 25” map (1881 I think) shows a boat house at the barracks end of this line, so it may have been more of a launching ramp than a pier. All trace of this jetty, and the barracks, has been obliterated by the development of the port.

 

Much of Landguard Common to the north of Landguard Fort was used as a rifle range (can anyone put any dates on this?), and had a narrow gauge target trolley line, which is shown on the 1904 and 1928 maps. You can still see traces of this just north of the gap between the two ridges, where there are a couple of wooden sleepers still embedded in the ground. I measured these many years ago and they suggest a gauge of 2’ 10”. I would guess that, in later years, the target trolley(s) might have been petrol-engined, but it would be interesting to know if there were moving targets in earlier times, and if so, how were they operated?

 

So, Landguard Common has an interesting history of minor tramways, with a few traces to be found by the observant visitor. I would welcome any further information about any of them. A little further afield, there was the 3 foot gauge 3rd rail electric tramway along the 800m long pier on the seafront (opened in 1905). In much more modern times (c1972), there was a lengthy 2 foot gauge line along the bank of the River Orwell at Trimley, worked by a Motor Rail Simplex diesel loco, in conjunction with strengthening the river wall, but that’s another story….

 

Keith Halton, Woodbridge, Suffolk.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Keith Halton

[Nearholmer]

35 minutes ago, Keith Halton said:

I would guess that, in later years, the target trolley(s) might have been petrol-engined,

 

A few weeks ago there was a discussion on the IRS forum, attempting to pin-down which target trolley lines received petrol-engined trolleys, but it was a bit inconclusive, because some of the recorded destinations for trolleys are known to have been depots/stores from which onward distribution occurred.

[Chris Turnbull]

Thank you so much for adding much invaluable information.  I have long thought that there could be scope for a small booklet on these lines but this would depend on how much information there still is.  Not a lot I suspect.  

 

The gauge of the line past the lighthouse seems to me to be a bit more than two feet.  When I'm next down there in the spring I really must measure the gauge of the longtitudinal timbers on the jetty which may have provided support for the track.

 

Chris Turnbull 

[Keith Halton]

Chris, I think the tramway to the breakwater was relaid, probably to standard gauge. A long time ago, I had a look at the 25" maps in the Suffolk Records Office and traced the tramway, so that I could compare different dates. I can't put my hand on the drawings at the moment, but I'm sure the maps showed a difference between 1881 and 1906. As I said, I think the timbers on the breakwater look more likely to have carried standard gauge track. I'm sure the track in the postcard of the lighthouse is 2 foot gauge or close to that. Keith,