How should I position my Hotel?

[AyJay]

Hello All,

With a space that needed filling on my layout and wanting some sort of pub, I opted for the Metcalfe Hotel.

Well here it is, and my plan was to position it thus; that's the white building in the middle, with it's front facing the road and shop opposite.  I'm thinking of not using the supplied wall and outbuilding as it comes, but perhaps I might do something else to fill the available space instead.

 

However, my dearest pointed out that I am not seeing its best side and suggested that I turn it around, see second picture.  Yes, I am now seeing the front of the hotel, but the front is now faced away from the road and the back now overhanging the edge.

 

Am I right in following my original plan?   

As an aside, if I had constructed it with the rear attached to the side instead, so that the footprint was a rectangle, instead of an 'L ' shape, then I probably could have got away with this alternative idea. 

Also, any ideas how to best surround the building.  Leave it open, put up a wall, or do a fence?  And would it be plausable to turn the rear of the hotel, facing the platform, into a public area, seats, drinkers etc (i.e. a beer garden)

 

The scene us UK steam, by the way.

 

Your thoughts please...

 

Thanks,   Alan

 

 

[Metr0Land]

Assuming your railway represents something built before the motor car, then with passengers arriving by train, they would want people leaving the station to see the best side of the hotel and think 'that's nice' - so for me the 2nd pic works better.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I concur with Metro. Bearing in mind that the Hotel would in all likelihood have been built before the railway . As it looks like a coaching inn. The position really is what looks best to you.

[Dungrange]

I agree with the above opinions, especially that the hotel looks like it may have predated the railway, in which case the road that it originally fronted onto may have changed as a result of the coming of the railway.  I also agree that the second picture looks more visually pleasing, so that's what I'd go with if it were me.  However, it's up to you to select the orientation that you think best.

[Ian Simpson]

Agree the second option looks better.

A third option would be to rotate the building through 45 degrees, so that the front of the pub is facing the station entrance but it is at right angles to it. That way you would be able to see both the attractive frontage of the pub and also some of that interesting yard as well.

Whichever you choose, that corner of the layout looks very good!

[The Johnster]

Unless one assumes that the hotel predates the railway, and that the arch in the gable end is the entrance for the sort of courtyard common in a coaching inn, in which case it needs to face the road, so for me the 1st pic works better

[Campaman]

I would go for the second option but move it towards the station building and rotate it clock wise so that you can see the front and the back, then at the road side opposite your shops and houses I would build up the pavement to include an entrance through the archway, and then maybe create some form of frontal forecourt using bollards and chain type fencing.

 

That way you can have your roadway straight and any diagonal created with the position of the hotel is taken up by the pavement / forecourt area, I would then do something similar with the actual frontage of the hotel facing the station and create you rear forecourt / beer garden.

[Steamport Southport]

8 minutes ago, Campaman said:

I would go for the second option but move it towards the station building and rotate it clock wise so that you can see the front and the back, then at the road side opposite your shops and houses I would build up the pavement to include an entrance through the archway, and then maybe create some form of frontal forecourt using bollards and chain type fencing.

 

That way you can have your roadway straight and any diagonal created with the position of the hotel is taken up by the pavement / forecourt area, I would then do something similar with the actual frontage of the hotel facing the station and create you rear forecourt / beer garden.

 

This.

 

Also depending on era, pub furniture such as benches and large free standing pub sign like the one made by Dapol.

 

 

 

Jason

[jonny777]

Are the terraced houses/corner shop already fixed? If not, I would take them off and just experiment with different positions of both sets of buildings in the entire area before making anything permanent. 

 

In fact I would be inclined to prize the houses off the board even if they are fixed, because the hotel might appear to be more realistic if it was over to the left. 

 

Just my personal opinion, though. 

[Steamport Southport]

It actually reminds me of a pub near me. The Brown Cow in Gateacre village. Thinking more location. That's a main road of mainly modernish houses from about the 1930s or 1950s.

 

 

The next building is a corner shop. But opposite is this which is the equivalent of your shop. The pub is beyond the red car. If you carried on past the post box you would come to a station which closed in the 1970s. There are another three pubs in the village.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[kevinlms]

On Mayfair? 

[Steamport Southport]

Suburban South Liverpool. Near Woolton where John Lennon grew up.

 

It's one of the places where the merchants and middle class moved out of the city centre to when the railways came along. Loads of the local "big estates" sold off land for housing to alleviate tax bills. The rest ended up being parkland or golf courses.

 

 

 

Jason

[Guest Jack Benson]

Ayjay,

 

Verwood Station - S&DJR

 

The above link will take you to Verwood station and the ajoining Albion Hotel that was almost on the permanent way. 

 

JB

[AyJay]

Well if there's a lesson to be learned here, its:  Make mock-ups of all structures and experiment with their positions before committing to anything.

 

Having read your replies, I am encouraged to consider my options and this is the best that I have come up with.  However, does it matter that it overhangs the edge?  I can see the edge when looking through the arch.

[The Johnster]

A line of thick bushes/undergrowth at at the baseboard edge should remove the ‘edge of the world’ impression, and as it’s next to the window it’ll be in semi-silhouette in daylight which will enhance the effect.  

 

Looks like the way to go to me!

[AyJay]

Jonny came up with an interesting suggestion.  No, the terrace is not fixed and yes, I did try that idea and did not like it.  I have also wondered if it wouldn't be far easier to put another corner shop on this site, like the one on the opposite corner. But then I don't think the hotel would look right on another possibility.  Here's what the 'square on' position looks like from the outside when shot through the glass.  The low curved wall is there to separate the road from the station forecourt.

[AyJay]

I think the bus is not the right scale,  but I do like it.

[duncan]

The Tarber Hotel is on a junction of 2 major roads, the front is onto the junction, therefore 2 sides follow the roads

 

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x488903d7c84bef4b%3A0x566ba75ebf8da973!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s%2Fmaps%2Fplace%2Ftarbet%2Bhotel%2F%4056.2034353%2C-4.7112308%2C3a%2C75y%2C67.11h%2C90t%2Fdata%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211s19Lx7g0rCB2iisgixI41Uw*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x488903d7c84bef4b%3A0x566ba75ebf8da973%3Fsa%3DX!5starbet hotel - Google Search!15sCAQ&imagekey=!1e2!2s19Lx7g0rCB2iisgixI41Uw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjKsLLGsuLjAhWcSxUIHSI7A_8Qpx8wC3oECA4QCw

[RJS1977]

1 hour ago, AyJay said:

I think the bus is not the right scale,  but I do like it.

 

I think the bus probably is the right scale (or at least close to) as most model buses these days are either 1:76 or 1:72.

[DCB]

Looks good.  But the pub looks old enough to pre date the railway so does it look like the pub or the road were there first?

One of the oldest Railway station buildings in the world is Cheltenham station which dates I believe from the 1700s, there is a pub just across the road and when the railway came in 1840 ish they had to swing the railway round the pub on a sharp curve to put the railway beside the station building.    Near my home they had to put in a sharp curve to thread the MSWJR round the back of the Chapel and School and the roads remained unchanged by the railway's arrival.   Well worth thinking about when planning.  No reason what so ever for symmetry between railway and landscape.

Don't forget to fit lights before fixing the building down

Edited August 2, 2019 by DavidCBroad

[Steamport Southport]

The pub is modern. No earlier than about 1850. More likely about 1900. They wouldn't build one with big windows until well after the window tax was abolished.

 

The station was built in 1873. Based on the ones on the Cheshire Lines between Liverpool & Manchester. Closest is probably Widnes or Sankey.

 

 

 

Jason

[eastglosmog]

Don't think the size of the windows mattered for window tax, only the number, so 1big window would invoke less tax than 2 small ones.

[PatB]

I've always been under the impression that window size was more a function of windows (or, at least, the glass to fill them and the skills to make them) being an expensive element of a building, regardless of the existence or otherwise of a window tax. 

[nzgresleyfan]

On 02/08/2019 at 07:19, AyJay said:

I think the bus is not the right scale,  but I do like it.

If it's the EFE model (and it does look like it) then it's bang on for OO scale.

[RJS1977]

5 hours ago, nzgresleyfan said:

If it's the EFE model (and it does look like it) then it's bang on for OO scale.

 

It's a bit hard to tell from that angle whether it's a Routemaster or an RT.

 

If it's an RT (narrow radiator grille) it should be 104mm long (26 feet) for 00.

 

If it's a Routemaster (wide radiator grille) it should be 110mm long (27'6") for 00.