Great Model Railway Challenge 2019

[whart57]

Don't get too excited. While there was a team drawn from 3mm Society members taking part (Heat 4) the rules still demanded 16.5mm gauge track. How we bent those rules to escape from OO is something you will have to wait till October 4 to find out.

[noiseboy72]

2 hours ago, Ian J. said:

As 3mm seems to have made an appearance, I wonder if there will be any 2mm layouts this year? While I model 4mm, I think for the general public that 2mm being on the show could help interest in the hobby as it allows for layouts that can fit in today's rabbit hutch homes.

The rules said  "Throughout all rounds of the competition, Teams should model predominantly in OO gauge" but nothing was said about scale...

 

[Huw Griffiths]

2 hours ago, whart57 said:

Don't get too excited. While there was a team drawn from 3mm Society members taking part (Heat 4) the rules still demanded 16.5mm gauge track. How we bent those rules to escape from OO is something you will have to wait till October 4 to find out.

 

My guess would be broad gauge - perhaps Irish themed - after all, it's not unknown for some countries' railway networks to use track of "5 feet something" gauge.

 

To be brutally honest though, even if we're thinking of UK standard gauge, is 3mm scale (about 1:100) really much worse than 4 mm scale (1:76) on HO track (3.5mm scale or 1:87)?

 

1 hour ago, noiseboy72 said:

The rules said  "Throughout all rounds of the competition, Teams should model predominantly in OO gauge" but nothing was said about scale...

 

 

I wonder if we might see some HO entries in a future year's contest. It would certainly fit in with one of last year's themes, ie "Travel" - and I'm sure some German or US outline models could look amazing on one of these programmes.

 

Whether we ever get to see anything like this is another matter ... .

 

 

Huw.

[Ian Morgan]

Well, we managed to get some N gauge into both our layouts last year (even though I was tempted to add some 2mmFS).

 

The 16.5mm track rule was so that they could use their rail mounted camera wagon.

 

 

[whart57]

Interesting point about the rail mounted camera wagon. It was actually a loose camera on a wagon chassis, I'm pretty sure it would have worked on a 12mm gauge or even 9mm gauge underframe. Loading gauge would be an issue in smaller scales though

[Ian Morgan]

Loading gauge was an issue for many of the OO scale layouts, as the camera hit things and derailed many times.

 

[Ian J.]

To restrict the building gauge based on being able to use a wagon-mounted camera seems more than a little restrictive. I think having at least one show each season using a different gauge to OO would be more interesting and reflect to the public the possibilities and constraints. A 7mm show could show how things can be bigger but constrained in size, and a 2mm show would be able to demonstrate how you can get more into the same space or use less space for the same track layout. Surely this is something worth considering by the show's makers...?

[JohnR]

5 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

To restrict the building gauge based on being able to use a wagon-mounted camera seems more than a little restrictive. I think having at least one show each season using a different gauge to OO would be more interesting and reflect to the public the possibilities and constraints. A 7mm show could show how things can be bigger but constrained in size, and a 2mm show would be able to demonstrate how you can get more into the same space or use less space for the same track layout. Surely this is something worth considering by the show's makers...?

 

I'm sure as the show develops, and the production team gain experience, they may well do things like that. 

[Huw Griffiths]

14 minutes ago, Ian J. said:

To restrict the building gauge based on being able to use a wagon-mounted camera seems more than a little restrictive. I think having at least one show each season using a different gauge to OO would be more interesting and reflect to the public the possibilities and constraints. A 7mm show could show how things can be bigger but constrained in size, and a 2mm show would be able to demonstrate how you can get more into the same space or use less space for the same track layout. Surely this is something worth considering by the show's makers...?

 

8 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I'm sure as the show develops, and the production team gain experience, they may well do things like that. 

 

I wonder if we might see an On30 entry in a future series?

[whart57]

3 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

 

 

I wonder if we might see an On30 entry in a future series?

 

Our team did consider large scale narrow gauge when we were planning possible layouts. But you get given a theme to work to and it didn't fit the theme so we dropped it

[TravisM]

6 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

Loading gauge was an issue for many of the OO scale layouts, as the camera hit things and derailed many times.

 

 

It derailed so many times as it was top heavy and not only that, it derailed other items of rolling stock or the fingers of the crew operating it.

[noiseboy72]

10 hours ago, jools1959 said:

 

It derailed so many times as it was top heavy and not only that, it derailed other items of rolling stock or the fingers of the crew operating it.

Yep, we had similar issues. The balance was awful and the long coupling bar pulled the loco or carriage off the track on every turn. We eventually resorted to a barrier wagon with old large Hornby couplers and with the hook removed and hooked their wagon around  this. 

[noiseboy72]

15 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

 

 

I wonder if we might see an On30 entry in a future series?

On30 is quite "niche", but  I think you might see a few 009 and N Gauge sections this year...

 

 

[noiseboy72]

Radio Times are now listing the first show - https://www.radiotimes.com/tv-programme/e/jm7sk8/the-great-model-railway-challenge--series-2-episode-1/

 

But interestingly, only as 1 hour and not 1hr 15 as the production company thought.

[Ian Morgan]

and I see the Radio Times are also showcasing the layout we built for them in two days last year

 

 

[Jenny Emily]

Team Rail Riders from Heat 2:

 

Whilst preparing for and filming the series, I also found time to build my new layout:

 

[Huw Griffiths]

On 01/09/2019 at 18:06, Huw Griffiths said:

I wonder if we might see an On30 entry in a future series?

 

On 01/09/2019 at 22:07, whart57 said:

Our team did consider large scale narrow gauge when we were planning possible layouts. But you get given a theme to work to and it didn't fit the theme so we dropped it

 

13 hours ago, noiseboy72 said:

On30 is quite "niche", but  I think you might see a few 009 and N Gauge sections this year...

 

You both make very fair points.

 

To be honest, my comment was more a case of me "thinking aloud" (I know ... me thinking ... yes, right). I was really wondering if there might be any obvious way of ensuring that the "camera car" would be really unlikely to collide with anything on the layout - and a scale which uses compatible track, but has a larger loading gauge struck me as a credible option.

 

Of course, there could also be the fact that I've recently been exploring the feasibility of building a "critter" in a similar scale, using a Bachmann Junior chassis - as little more than a "fun" project, to improve my modelmaking skills. OK - the chances are that this won't get built any time soon (if at all) - but I'm certainly aware that modelling in scales like On30, Oe and O-16.5 could potentially offer a larger loading gauge than typical UK outline OO RTR.

 

The reason I'm not being any more definite than this is that I don't think there's such a thing as a universal loading gauge for real narrow gauge lines (and hence models, to any specific scale) - far from it, in fact.

 

As for other scales using compatible track, a number of the German and US outline HO RTR locos I've encountered have been of a similar size to a lot of UK outline OO RTR - which makes me suspect that the layout loading gauges might not be very different.

 

 

Whatever the score, I suspect that I've probably said more than enough about what I wonder if some potential teams might consider building in a future series (well they might - or they might not ...).

 

I'd now prefer to concentrate on what real teams actually built - and how everything worked out - in a real series which has already been filmed. There's only a couple of weeks to wait now - and I'm looking forward to seeing it.

 

 

Regards,

 

Huw.

[noiseboy72]

11 hours ago, Huw Griffiths said:

 

 

 

You both make very fair points.

 

To be honest, my comment was more a case of me "thinking aloud" (I know ... me thinking ... yes, right). I was really wondering if there might be any obvious way of ensuring that the "camera car" would be really unlikely to collide with anything on the layout - and a scale which uses compatible track, but has a larger loading gauge struck me as a credible option.

 

Of course, there could also be the fact that I've recently been exploring the feasibility of building a "critter" in a similar scale, using a Bachmann Junior chassis - as little more than a "fun" project, to improve my modelmaking skills. OK - the chances are that this won't get built any time soon (if at all) - but I'm certainly aware that modelling in scales like On30, Oe and O-16.5 could potentially offer a larger loading gauge than typical UK outline OO RTR.

 

The reason I'm not being any more definite than this is that I don't think there's such a thing as a universal loading gauge for real narrow gauge lines (and hence models, to any specific scale) - far from it, in fact.

 

As for other scales using compatible track, a number of the German and US outline HO RTR locos I've encountered have been of a similar size to a lot of UK outline OO RTR - which makes me suspect that the layout loading gauges might not be very different.

 

 

Whatever the score, I suspect that I've probably said more than enough about what I wonder if some potential teams might consider building in a future series (well they might - or they might not ...).

 

I'd now prefer to concentrate on what real teams actually built - and how everything worked out - in a real series which has already been filmed. There's only a couple of weeks to wait now - and I'm looking forward to seeing it.

 

 

Regards,

 

Huw.

We did consider HO (Can't say too much just yet) American Outline, but settled in the end for OO. Bearing in mind that Peco, Hornby and Bachmann all sponsor the program to a very generous degree, the majority of models you will see will be from those manufacturers. That does give you 009, a small amount of HOe, HO and N to choose from - along with OO, so hopefully you will see some really good layouts with some creative use of stock and scenery.

 

*Spoiler* Many of the layouts this year are much better than last series! Expect some modelling up to proper exhibition standard from a lot of teams (not ours, we just bumbled along as normal), as we all watched season 1 and worked out what was required to fit 3 years modelling into 3 days... 

[Ian Morgan]

48 minutes ago, noiseboy72 said:

*Spoiler* Many of the layouts this year are much better than last series! Expect some modelling up to proper exhibition standard from a lot of teams (not ours, we just bumbled along as normal), as we all watched season 1 and worked out what was required to fit 3 years modelling into 3 days... 

 

I did hear that the bar has been raised this year. I could say we deliberately made all our mistakes last year just so that this year's teams could learn from them

[noiseboy72]

9 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said:

 

I did hear that the bar has been raised this year. I could say we deliberately made all our mistakes last year just so that this year's teams could learn from them

I ended up sitting next to a team member from Tonbridge Railway Club at a wedding (Small world!) and discussing our experiences from Season 1 to Season 2 was quite interesting. I think this year the rules were clearer, the judging more transparent using a points system and teams much better prepared. 

 

We all knew what was expected of us and learned from the mistakes of S1. Less ambitious builds on the day and more pre-building and general preparation being the key, as well as putting a team together that worked well under pressure and didn't get too stressed about a camera being shoved in their faces!

 

As a comparison, if you have Netflix, watch the first series of Bake Off  and then the latest one. The standards are so much higher and the competition much tougher! 

[noiseboy72]

And for those that want some more background information on the show, PECO are publishing this next week: https://peco-uk.com/blogs/news/the-great-model-railway-challenge-the-book-of-the-series

[MarkSG]

4 hours ago, noiseboy72 said:

And for those that want some more background information on the show, PECO are publishing this next week: https://peco-uk.com/blogs/news/the-great-model-railway-challenge-the-book-of-the-series

 

Ha! At only £4.99 I might even buy that. 

[Ian Morgan]

They kept that quiet.

[Marcus-Jay]

Quote

Meet the 2019 teams, see how the teams from the first series created their masterpieces

 

 

Ohh.. lots of video stills as I don't recall seeing many stills cameras around.

[John M Upton]

On 31/08/2019 at 22:11, MarkSG said:

 

Sky+ FTW

Not with the powered by an asthmatic mouse on a treadmill broadband I have have!

 

14k dialup would be faster...

Edited September 7, 2019 by John M Upton