What does CAP on brake vans mean

[gismorail]

I am just about to complete a Slaters  7mm LMS / BR 20ton Brake van kit. My question on a lot of these vans there are a lot with CAP in white letters can anyone explain to me what it means / stands for ...I have checked through a lot of forums but withouy success.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by gismorail
double pictures

[BernardTPM]

It's the TOPS code for Service Brake van, unbraked, vacuum piped. I suspect the code pre-dates the 'D' applied in front of the number; as an Engineers' Brake van it should be ZTP.

Edited August 1, 2019 by BernardTPM

[gismorail]

Many thanks for that Information probably to late for my era then 

[BernardTPM]

Yes. Though TOPS codes are usually in a painted 'box' (derived from the 1963 railfreight livery), on a lot of wagons they simply added it on, as in that photo. You wouldn't really see TOPS codes on wagons until the mid-'70s anyway; even the new Air Braked wagons of the early 1970s initially had codes like COV AB.

Edited August 2, 2019 by BernardTPM

[kevinlms]

13 hours ago, gismorail said:

Many thanks for that Information probably to late for my era then 

The various codes can be found here.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_carriage_and_wagon_numbering_and_classification#TOPS_CARKND_classification_system

[gismorail]

What a wonder font of knowledge RM Web is many thanks for replies 

[D6975]

If you’re wondering why CA was used as the first two letters for a guard’s van, it’s because TOPS was adapted from an American program and they couldn’t be a**ed to change all the codes.  CA is for ‘caboose’.

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, D6975 said:

If you’re wondering why CA was used as the first two letters for a guard’s van, it’s because TOPS was adapted from an American program and they couldn’t be a**ed to change all the codes.  CA is for ‘caboose’.

The real curious thing was that the rest of the C** category were covered bulk carriers (grain and cement hoppers, Covhops) with one exception ; gunpowder vans.  There is a fourth letter in TOPS codes, seldom seen painted on, except in error. It is found on Wagon Diagrams, however, and covers minor variations, such as the type of donor wagon re-used for a re-body. The most extreme example of such sub-types I know of was on some Railtrack-ordered 4-wheel opens (PNA?), which almost exhausted the alphabet. They'd used old TTA underframes, with, to start with, two types of suspension.

[Simon Bendall]

3 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

The real curious thing was that the rest of the C** category were covered bulk carriers (grain and cement hoppers, Covhops) with one exception ; gunpowder vans. 

 

C also covered BR-owned tankers and demountable tanks, so CTO/P/V/W and CUV/W were assigned if not carried.  CTA then reappeared for the EWS brine tanks.

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by Simon Bendall

[The Stationmaster]

On 03/08/2019 at 09:00, D6975 said:

If you’re wondering why CA was used as the first two letters for a guard’s van, it’s because TOPS was adapted from an American program and they couldn’t be a**ed to change all the codes.  CA is for ‘caboose’.

Actually the original TOPS code was 'CAB' for a brakevan - simply an abbreviation of caboose.  So in fact in TOPS as bought from SP it was CAB for caboose and not CA .

[D6975]

That's what I said.  Read it again, I said that CA were the first 2 letters.

 

[jim.snowdon]

What The Stationmaster is saying, and I would believe him as he was in a position to know, is that the original coding in TOPS as bought  was CAB and it was BR who changed it by shortening it to CA and using the third letter to denote the braking arrangements.

 

Jim 

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

What The Stationmaster is saying, and I would believe him as he was in a position to know, is that the original coding in TOPS as bought  was CAB and it was BR who changed it by shortening it to CA and using the third letter to denote the braking arrangements.

 

Jim 

The coding of the brake arrangements in US, has never been required. Well at least for many decades.

[Bucoops]

27 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

The coding of the brake arrangements in US, has never been required. Well at least for many decades.

 

But it is here, hence the need to include it

[The Stationmaster]

On 20/08/2019 at 08:19, jim.snowdon said:

What The Stationmaster is saying, and I would believe him as he was in a position to know, is that the original coding in TOPS as bought  was CAB and it was BR who changed it by shortening it to CA and using the third letter to denote the braking arrangements.

 

Jim 

That was exactly the case Jim although the two events were not sequential.   In order to c save programming time the original vehicle codes used either the SP version or a new BR version where there was no immediately suitable equivalent in the SP codes.

 

When TOPS was first introduced the original SP code of CAB was used for brakevans and that remained the case for some time until the software was rewritten to make 'Brke Knd' part of the vehicle code at which stage the 'B' of the original code was replaced by the relevant letter to show what kind of brakes were provided on a (freight) brakevan.  I reckon that was definitely more than 18 months after TOPS was first introduced and probably somewhat longer than that - CAB was definitely in use throughout the whole of 1973 and into 1974 if not later.