Mersey Railway 0-6-4T engines in 4mm?

[Ruston]

Evening all,

 

Has a kit ever been produced for the 0-6-4 tank engines built by Beyer Peacock for the Mersey Railway? It's something that I'd like to model but if a kit has already been done it would obviously save a lot of time and effort...

 

Thanks,

Edited August 2, 2019 by Ruston

[cypherman]

Do you mean this loco. If so I do not know of any model or kit for it.

 

[Armchair Modeller]

I have seen at least one  4mm scratchbuilt model, so strongly suspect there is no kit.

 

https://www.scalefour.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=2568&p=22579&hilit=mersey#p27782

[Steamport Southport]

Not that I know of. 

 

Drawings were in MRC or MRN a few years ago. I'll try and find the date.

 

 

 

Jason

[Ruston]

Thanks, chaps. Yes, that's the type. I already have the drawing in MRN.

 

Does anyone know any more about the ptototype? I've read online that the Mersey Railway had 8 of this type, all built by Beyer Peacock between 1884-86 but I don't have any works numbers and only the names of three of them, those being Cecil Raikes, The Major and Duke Of Lancaster.

[Steamport Southport]

There was an article on the history of them in Railway World in the 1970s. According to wiki.

 

Atkins, C. P. (March 1976). "The Mersey Railway tank locomotives—1". Railway World. Shepperton, Surrey: Ian Allan: 96–99.

Atkins, C. P. (April 1976). "The Mersey Railway tank locomotives—2". Railway World. Shepperton, Surrey: Ian Allan: 160–164.

 

I think there was another article in Railway World in the 1980s which mainly featured their life after leaving the Mersey Railway mostly about South Wales and Australia.

 

Names. I think they were all named after politicians with a local connection. Gladstone, Peel and Palmerston ring a bell.

 

Details will probably be in this. I've not got this one, but got the one on the Overhead Railway. Mostly text with a few photographs.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Line-Beneath-Liners-John-Gahan/dp/0907768407

 

 

 

Jason

[Armchair Modeller]

I have read of 9 being built. Photos suggest that Fox and Liverpool were 2 other names. Some were exported to Australia. 3 were disposed of to The Alexandra Docks & Railway.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Armchair Modeller
correction

[Steamport Southport]

I don't know who Fox is. But I assume Liverpool is named after Lord Liverpool rather than the place. Derby was possibly one as well.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited August 3, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[Armchair Modeller]

Model Railway News August 1966 has drawings and some details.

[mcowgill]

You might find this page of interest http://www.australiansteam.com/JAB 5.htm

 

Martin

[Craigw]

 

From the Cultural collection of Newcastle University NSW Flickr site.   Number 5 leaving Abermain Colliery on a miners passenger train.

 

Regards,

 

Craig W

[Compound2632]

Ruston, I do hope your aim is to model one with the condensing gear - that's what really gives the engine its character. Otherwise it's just your common-or-garden outside-framed 0-6-4T (!) 

[JeremyC]

One of them, 'Cecil Raikes', is preserved in the UK.

https://preservedbritishsteamlocomotives.com/cecil-raikes-0-6-4t-mersey-railway/

Edited August 4, 2019 by JeremyC

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎03‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 19:54, Steamport Southport said:

I don't know who Fox is...

Well that's hopeful. Charles Fox, politician. Makes all modern pols look positively dull.

[Ruston]

On 04/08/2019 at 09:34, Compound2632 said:

Ruston, I do hope your aim is to model one with the condensing gear - that's what really gives the engine its character. Otherwise it's just your common-or-garden outside-framed 0-6-4T (!) 

I haven't thought that far ahead, to be honest. These engines are far too large for my current layout, so when I build one it doesn't have to be any specific engine or period, so I may model one with the condensing gear. Then again I have an idea for a large colliery loft layout, in which case it will be Cecil Raikes in Shipley collieries condition. I've got various projects underway at the moment so won't be doing anything about this for a while and the first hurdle to overcome is the fact that my drawing board only takes up to A3-sized paper. I need to re-draw everything to 4 times the finished size for milling the frames and that means it won't fit on my drawing board...

Edited August 6, 2019 by Ruston

[Compound2632]

Would the frames fit if drawn on the diagonal of the A3 sheet?

[Phil Traxson]

On 03/08/2019 at 19:47, Steamport Southport said:

There was an article on the history of them in Railway World in the 1970s. According to wiki.

 

 

Names. I think they were all named after politicians with a local connection. Gladstone, Peel and Palmerston ring a bell.

 

Details will probably be in this. I've not got this one, but got the one on the Overhead Railway. Mostly text with a few photographs.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Line-Beneath-Liners-John-Gahan/dp/0907768407

 

 

 

Jason

From the above book names and numbers are 

1. The Major

2. Earl of Chester

3. Duke of Lancaster

4. Gladstone

5. Cecil Raikes

6. Fox

7. Liverpool

8. Birkenhead

 

Just out of interest and therefore OT the later 2-6-2 tanks were

9. Connaught

10. Mersey

11. Victoria

12. Bouverie

13. Brunlees

14. Tranmere

15. Salisbury

16. Burcot

17. Burnley

18. Banstead

 

9 - 15 built by Beyer Peacock, 16 - 18 by Kitson.

 

The book is one of an interesting and readable set of paperbacks, all picked up for £1.50 each, s/hand around 1990,

Line Beneath the Liners  --  The Mersey Railway

Seventeen Stations to Dingle -- The Liverpool OverheadRailway

Seaport to Seaside  --  Liverpool to Southport and Ormskirk

and one I haven't found yet , but would like, if only to make up the set, Steel Wheels to Deeside  --   covering the Wirral Lines.  

 

Phil T.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Phil Traxson
Keyboard/finger interface problems

[Steamport Southport]

On 06/08/2019 at 09:17, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Well that's hopeful. Charles Fox, politician. Makes all modern pols look positively dull.

 

Would it have been him though? He was late 18th century I assume it was named after some one still alive in the 1880s and had some connection with Liverpool/Birkenhead.

 

Probably Francis Fox.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fox_(civil_engineer)

 

 

Jason

[sir douglas]

9 of them were 0-6-4, the other 6 were 2-6-2

0-6-4's BP 2601 to 2608 and 2782

2-6-2's BP 2865 to 2870

 

the 3 kitsons were all 2-6-2

 

K 3393 to 3395

 

Burnley and banstead later ended up at Whitwood colliery, Castleford

Edited August 7, 2019 by sir douglas

[sir douglas]

and with the name list above i could finish off my list ive got in a notepad file

 

01 0-6-4 BP 2601-1885 "The Major", J&A brown Australia
02 0-6-4 BP 2602-1885 "earl of Chester"
03 0-6-4 BP 2603-1885 "Duke of Lncaster"
04 0-6-4 BP 2604-1885 "Gladstone"
05 0-6-4 BP 2605-1885 "Cecil raikes"
06 0-6-4 BP 2606-1885 "Fox"
07 0-6-4 BP 2607-1885 "Liverpool"
08 0-6-4 BP 2608-1885 "Birkenhead"
09 0-6-4 BP 2782-1886 "Connaught"
10 2-6-2 BP 2865-1887 "Mersey"
11 2-6-2 BP 2866-1887 "Victoria", Alexandria dock 10, GWR 1201
12 2-6-2 BP 2867-1887 "Bouverie"
13 2-6-2 BP 2868-1887 "Brunlees"
14 2-6-2 BP 2869-1887 "Tranmere"
15 2-6-2 BP 2870-1887 "Victoria"
16 2-6-2 K  3393-1892 "Burcot" Alexandria dock 25, GWR 1199
17 2-6-2 K  3394-1892 "Burnley", Whitwood coll
18 2-6-2 K  3395-1892 "Banstead", whitwood coll