BR Maroon MK1 coach advice please!

[MartynA]

I am running a crossover period  between BR early and late crests. My new loco is a Bachmann Jubilee and the current rake is all Bachmann BSK - CK - SO - BSK.  I can run a five coach train so what would be the best coach to complete the train? Thanks as always! 

[Fat Controller]

An SK, I'd think, but why not be controversial, and use a Thompson. Stanier or Collett one, rather than a BR one? There was a lot of movement of stock between regions in the 1950s/60s, as a look at contemporary photos will show. Another option would be to have a Mk1 SK or SO, but in 'blood and custard'.

[Bucoops]

Agreed, An SK of some description.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Bucoops

[Metr0Land]

You don't specify location.  If it's Scotland or North of England following the Fat Controller's advice about controversy, there were maroon Bulleid coaches that ventured north.

 

Sc1500S_LeedsCity_9-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[The Johnster]

A Jubilee suggests ex LMS territory and a Stanier SK might fit the bill; that said, a Thompson or even a Gresley is not unlikely!  Early to late crest crossover, late 50s, would still have plenty of coaches in crimson and cream livery as it took several years to repaint them all; some could be seen in the early 60s.  Except for named expresses full mk1 trains were still pretty unusual, and 'strengtheners' were often whatever was spare at the carriage sidings, so anything could turn up.

 

The WR had some maroon Bullieds as well.

[Steven B]

A crimson & cream Mk1 SK would get my vote.

BSK-SK-CK-CK-SK-BSK or BSK-SK-SK-CK-SK-SK-BSK rakes of Mk1s was reasonably common for BR(M) in the period. Reducing the train to five vehicles and running BSK-SK-CK-SO-BSK wouldn't look out of place. (BSK-SK-CK-SO-BSK was also a very common BR(M) formation using pre-Nationalisation stock).

 

Mixed rakes weren't that common - especially with Stanier or GWR stock as gangway adaptors were needed to make the BS gangways with the Pullman type fitted to Mk1 coaches. Where they were mixed you'd find blocks of Staniers followed by bocks of Mk1 rather than being mixes up together. If you do go with a Stanier carriage then it's more likely to be tagged onto one end of the train than in the middle.

 

Steven B.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Steven B

[Wickham Green]

And talking of tagging on, you could opt for something like a Brake Composite  which'll form a different 'portion' of your train and end up somewhere separate from the main formation. Don't forget Compartment stock was predominant at this time - as in other respondents replies .... Open coaches were largely used for excursions and the like - hence the Tourist Opens Second designation given to thousands of Mk 1s.

[Ken.W]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green said:

 And talking of tagging on, you could opt for something like a Brake Composite  which'll form a different 'portion' of your train and end up somewhere separate from the main formation. Don't forget Compartment stock was predominant at this time - as in other respondents replies .... Open coaches were largely used for excursions and the like - hence the Tourist Opens Second designation given to thousands of Mk 1s.

 

The TSO designation was to distinguish those with '2+2' seating (64 seat) from those, mostly used as restaurants, with 2+1 seating (48 seat)

 

Depending on distance or how 'important' your train is meant to represent, have you considered a catering vehicle? Though for a short set I'd suggest a buffet car only rather than a restaurant car. The Mk1 RMB or exLNER Gresleys are available.

 

As it's for the crossover period, as has been said mixed rakes with some 'Blood and Custard' stock were common other than on the principle expresses, so for a 5 coach set I'd recommend at least one.

Pre-nationlisation stock was also common until the early 60s, and ex LNER and SR stock was fully compatible with Mk1s

So maybe a Gresley buffet or other ex-LNE SK in B/C to add the variety seen in that period?

 

PS

Even 'The Elizabethan' had ex-LNER Thompson stock apart from it's final year

A Mk1 RMB would have to be maroon though, they were build after the livery change and B/C ones are a preservation era livery.

The Newcastle - Middlesbrough service (~40 mile) had loco-hauled buffet car sets pre-DMU

 

[The Johnster]

The mk1 RMB was a late introduction, 1961 I believe, and I never saw one with B1 bogies, only Commonwealths, but I believe the prototype had B1s.  It may be a bit late for the OP's purposes.  Not sure that Gresley Buffets cascaded away to other regions until quite late in the day, blue/grey era, but I'm not stating this to be a fact!

[Phil Bullock]

And the two RMB models available - Bachmann and Hornby - both represent the RMB as modified - not as built - with an additional storage cupboard - and hence one window less - on the buffet counter side of the vehicle. So even more out of period.

 

But ultimately rule 1 applies - its the OP's railway! An SK would get my vote too

 

Phil

 

[keefer]

Dia.97 - no storage area (so 4 more seats), BR1 bogies 

Dia.98 - storage area, BR1 bogies

Dia.99 - as 98, but Commonwealth bogies

[MartynA]

Once again I am genuinely overwhelmed by the knowledge and help that can be gained on this forum! I would like to thank you all most sincerely for the advice and the time that you took to offer it on here.

 

Looks like I shall be going for a SK of some description!

 

Thanks once again - I just hope that one day I'll be able to answer someone's question on here so that I can repay your kindness!

[StephenB]

With reference to the Bulleid in lined maroon, has Bachmann never been tempted to produced such a version? It would add variety to many a model passenger train.

 

Stephen

[Joseph_Pestell]

4 minutes ago, StephenB said:

With reference to the Bulleid in lined maroon, has Bachmann never been tempted to produced such a version? It would add variety to many a model passenger train.

 

Stephen

 

I can see why they might not fancy it as a main catalogue item. But I am surprised that none of the retailers has commissioned one.

[Joseph_Pestell]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The mk1 RMB was a late introduction, 1961 I believe, and I never saw one with B1 bogies, only Commonwealths, but I believe the prototype had B1s.  It may be a bit late for the OP's purposes.  Not sure that Gresley Buffets cascaded away to other regions until quite late in the day, blue/grey era, but I'm not stating this to be a fact!

 

Some Gresley buffets made it onto the WR in the early 60s according to reports elsewhere on RMweb.

 

I can remember travelling on one from Paddington - Paignton in the mid 70s but, of course, b/g by then. We did have seats elsewhere in the train but I wanted to travel in the Gresley. Apart from which, they were serving real ale.

 

I must seek out my old photos of RMBs on the Far North Line. Think they may havee had B1 bogies.

[The Johnster]

We had one at Canton in the 70s for use on charter and excursion trains, in blue/grey of course.  The interior was in pretty much original condition and, as you say, there was proper beer.  

3 hours ago, StephenB said:

With reference to the Bulleid in lined maroon, has Bachmann never been tempted to produced such a version? It would add variety to many a model passenger train.

 

Stephen

As would Staniers in blue/grey.  You can of course always have a go at repainting one yourself; lining and number transfers are readily available.  I doubt the demand is there for a volume manufacturer such as Bachmann to bother with a run of maroon Bulleids which would have a fairly limited appeal and end up having to be discounted to clear shelves, especially as it would presumably provoke a temporary shortage of new malachite ones, but appearance high on wishlist polls might change their minds...

[jim.snowdon]

It's easier for a manufacturer to produce an existing model in a different livery than it is to produce a new model. The big money is in the design and manufacture of the moulding tools.

 

Jim

[Wickham Green]

7 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I can see why they might not fancy it as a main catalogue item. But I am surprised that none of the retailers has commissioned one.

Give 'em a chance ...... Bachmann haven't got green ones on the shelves yet !

[Marshall5]

On 05/08/2019 at 19:03, The Johnster said:

The mk1 RMB was a late introduction, 1961 I believe, and I never saw one with B1 bogies, only Commonwealths, but I believe the prototype had B1s. 

 

According to Parkin the RMB's built to dia 99 (nos 1813 - 1837 and 1853 - 1882 were built with Commonwealth bogies.  Those built to dia 98 (nos 1838 - 1852) were built with BR1's.  Certainly SC1839 (1960) still had BR1's when withdrawn - and still has them at Ribble Steam Railway.   Parkin doesn't specify the type of bogie originally fitted to dia 97 (nos 1801 - 1812) but I'm fairly sure that the Furness Trust's RMB M1812 (1957) also has BR1's although it is incorrectly painted in 'Blood & Custard'.

Ray.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Marshall5
Additional info.

[royaloak]

My 1980 P5 Coaching Stock Pocket Book shows lot 30485 (1801-1812) as having BR1 bogies except 1803, 1805-07 which had B4s.

 

Lot 30507 (1838-1852) was a right mixed bag with BR1, Commonwealth and B5s all being fitted to various members of the batch.