Help Identifying Coach Sets

[sem34090]

Morning -

 

Another strange question from me. I recently picked a copy of Issue No.4 of The Southern Way in a charity shop, and some photos have especially caught my attention.  Spread from Page 52 to Page 59, they depict scenes along the East Coastway lines in the late 1920s/Early 1930s. Although my period is now generally slightly later (1934/5) it would still be useful to identify some of the coach sets and even specific coaches in use. The photos reveal the following to me:

 

Notes on Coach sets from The Southern Way No.4 Photograph selection. All are East Coastway.

Photo 1 – 4w Luggage Van (SECR Grande Vitesse?) and SECR Trio-Set (Short Birdcages). SECR D Class Loco.

Photo 2 – SECR 1915-21 Trio Set (No Birdcage Lookouts), LBSCR C2x Loco.

Photo 3 – SECR Trio—Set (Short Birdcages). LBSCR B1 Loco

Photo 4 – SECR 3-Car Set (Possibly composed of Two Birdcage Brakes and a 100-Seater?). SR L1 Loco.

Photo 5 – Inter-Regional ('Birkenhead'?) Set. SECR Birdcage Brake + LSWR Ironclad(?) + SECR Birdcage Brake + LBSCR Billinton Full-Brake + 2x Unidentified NC Vehicles, probably LBSCR, Might be LSWR. LBSCR D3 Loco.

Photo 6 – 2x SECR Trio-Sets (Short Birdcages). LBSCR E4 Loco.

Photo 7 – Midland Clerestory Stock. LBSCR B4 Loco.

Photo 8 – SECR Trio-Set and 4w Van. (Trio-Set = 60ft Birdcages, Van Unknown). LBSCR I3 Loco.

Photo 9 – SECR Trio Set (60ft Birdcages). LBSCR B4 Loco.

Photo 10 – LBSCR Billinton Arc-Roof Stock. LBSCR E4 Loco.

Photo 11 – LBSCR Billinton Arc-Roof Motor Set (Short Luggage Van variety).  LBSCR D1 Loco.

Photo 12 – Same Inter-Regional Set as in Photo 5. LBSCR D3 Loco (Different one).

Photo 13 – LBSCR 6w Van + SECR Trio-Set + 6w(?) Van with Birdcage. (Trio Set = 60ft Birdcages). LBSCR E5 Loco.

Photo 14 – SECR Trio-Set No.519 (Or 518) + LSWR Milk Van (Trio-Set = Short Birdcages). LBSCR B1 Loco.

 

More information on the possible pool of SECR Trio-Sets would be very welcome, in particular the 60ft ones as I have a Bachmann set in lined olive that could be renumbered if local allocations require it to be. Information on the vehicles used in the inter-regional set would be very useful too as that appeared to be a very interesting train with the same combination of vehicles photographed twice on, it would seem, two separate days. With my building a D3 currently, there is definite potential for me to model this train! In all but the last photo the carriage set numbers are invisible to me, but a useful list of period coach allocations would be good.

 

Oh, and I have already looked at the SEmG spreadsheet, but it doesn't seem to be helping much.

[Wickham Green]

Not necer-celery ! ........ the fact that it's labelled as a 'Hastings train' doesn't prove that the whole train went to Hastings - the balloons might have been dropped at ( or for ) Eastbourne, for instance.

 

As for trio set allocations : these were known as 'Rover' sets because they didn't have any fixed allocation. The birdcage coaches in inter-regional workings were - without SW4 in front of me - undoubtedly some of the Brake Composites/Tricomposites built specifically for these workings ..... full details, as usual, in https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bogie-Carriages-Eastern-Chatham-Railway/dp/0853614555 

[sem34090]

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but why would the SECR have built coaches for what appears to have been either an LBSCR or a post-grouping working? And what about the Ironclad?! (Assuming it is actually an Ironclad...)

[Steamport Southport]

31 minutes ago, Wickham Green said:

Not necer-celery ! ........ the fact that it's labelled as a 'Hastings train' doesn't prove that the whole train went to Hastings - the balloons might have been dropped at ( or for ) Eastbourne, for instance.

 

As for trio set allocations : these were known as 'Rover' sets because they didn't have any fixed allocation. The birdcage coaches in inter-regional workings were - without SW4 in front of me - undoubtedly some of the Brake Composites/Tricomposites built specifically for these workings ..... full details, as usual, in https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bogie-Carriages-Eastern-Chatham-Railway/dp/0853614555 

 

One of those where you can get the book for far cheaper on the publishers website.

 

http://stenlake.co.uk/book_publishing/?page_id=131&ref=849&section=

 

 

 

Jason

[Wickham Green]

20 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

One of those where you can get the book for far cheaper on the publishers website.

 

http://stenlake.co.uk/book_publishing/?page_id=131&ref=849&section=

 

 

 

Jason

Sorry - the rain forest site was the first one that bounced up when I searched .................. I didn't realise the book was still in print either !

[Wickham Green]

20 hours ago, sem34090 said:

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but why would the SECR have built coaches for what appears to have been either an LBSCR or a post-grouping working? And what about the Ironclad?! (Assuming it is actually an Ironclad...)

In VERY general terms the Brighton's coaching stock was relatively antiquated by the time of the grouping so much was withdrawn by the Southern and replaced with relatively sound stock from elsewhere - including Ironclad sets built specifically for the Central Section. You must remember, also, that the Southern was busy 'kit-bashing' all sorts of elderly coaches into suburban electric sets and everything else of pre-grouping origin drifted away from the capital.

[sem34090]

The subject of my modelling is a mystery unbeknownst to all mankind...

[Wickham Green too]

Photo 4 : I don't think there were any trio sets incorporating a hundred-seat third - though I've not checked Gould.

 

Photo 5 : Your 'Ironclad' is probably one of the six flush-sided Corridor Thirds .... more like a proto-Thanet !

[Nick C]

I think the 100-seat thirds were always loose - remember they were built with the intention of being repurposed as electric stock trailers, but this never happened.

 

Most, if not all, of the trio sets were incapable of running in anything other than their fixed formations, as they, IIRC, only had one dynamo per set. This changed towards he end of their lives. However there were some birdcage brakes that weren't part of trio sets...

[Wickham Green too]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

Most, if not all, of the trio sets were incapable of running in anything other than their fixed formations, as they, IIRC, only had one dynamo per set. This changed towards he end of their lives. However there were some birdcage brakes that weren't part of trio sets...

I think this limitation only applied to the sets which were actually built as sets - the 54' & 60' vehicles : everything else started out as 'loose' and had its own dynamo.