Dual Braked Bachmann mk1 blue grey BG?

[Norm81]

I'm looking through my coaching stock and have discovered a couple of mk2A TSO's needing a brake coach.

 

Both mk1 BG's I have (39-175 A & B) appear to be vac only, did Bachmann do a dual braked version in blue grey? I have looked at several pictures but none show the underframe details well enough to be, sure plus I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for (I know how to identify vac only and air only but not dual).

 

If they didn't do one in blue grey, could I do an underframe swap (keeping the original body and bogies) from say a PO/RES liveried one? I think there were dual braked BG's around in blue grey in the early 80's but I'm not too sure.

 

Coaching stock is not my strong point sadly...

 

Thanks.

[Titan]

I don't know about BG's But my Mk1 Bachmann Pullmans came with a set of air brake cylinders and triple valve in the accessory pack so they could be added if you wanted to dual brake them as they were in later life.  They may be available as spares. Dual braking would have started in the late 60's for those used on express passenger trains, and I expect most dual braked, if not all dual braked examples would be on B4 bogies. Having said that, there were a lot of mk2A vacuum brake steam heat examples, plenty got to be steam hauled in the last year or two of steam operation.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Titan

[Flood]

At least two Bachmann BGs have been made with an air brake distributor but none have had the small air cylinders. The distributor is to the right of the battery box on the opaque window side.

 

M84281 (39-175A) and M80955 (39-175D) are both so fitted but the first is numbered and lettered as a NDV (non passenger carrying, 90mph BG dual heat, vacuum braked) and the second is numbered and lettered as a NAV (non passenger carrying, 90mph BG steam heat, vacuum braked).

 

Strictly speaking until 1981 the only dual brake BGs were the 100 mph ones with B4 bogies. From early 1981 onwards more of the 90mph stock (with Mk1 bogies) were given dual brakes and coded NDX.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Flood

[Flood]

16 minutes ago, Titan said:

Having said that, there were a lot of mk2A vacuum brake steam heat examples, plenty got to be steam hauled in the last year or two of steam operation.

There were very few Mk2A vacuum braked coaches as they were built as air braked, only some FK and BFK stock that were converted to vacuum brakes from 1976 to 1978.

 

There was a lot of Mk2 (later Mk2z) vacuum braked coaches.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Flood

[Titan]

7 minutes ago, Flood said:

 

There was a lot of Mk2 (later Mk2z) vacuum braked coaches.

 

Thanks, I might have got them a bit muddled up!

[eastwestdivide]

In my 1980 RCTS coaching stock book, I count about 43 BGs coded X for dual braked, mostly M-prefixed and a few E-prefixed. All are NEX (NE=100mph).

The copy I have also has a lot of pencilled-in additions to the dual-braked fleet, as if a conversion programme was going on at the time.

[The Johnster]

Not 100% sure, but it would be a good general rule to assume that any air braked or dual braked BG had B4 bogies for 100mph running.  I don't recall any BGs with Commonwealth pattern bogies.

[eastwestdivide]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Not 100% sure, but it would be a good general rule to assume that any air braked or dual braked BG had B4 bogies for 100mph running.  I don't recall any BGs with Commonwealth pattern bogies.

Certainly in that 1980 stock book, the NEX and NEA vans are listed as having B4 bogies. Although the words B4 bogies are in italic in the book, there's no other notes to denote any other kind on air-braked examples.

However, those coded NEV (100mph, vacuum-only) have B2 beside them. Which begs the question, was vacuum-only stock permitted to do 100mph?

[Titan]

All Mk1's on commonwealth bogies were originally vac only and permitted to run at 100mph.  ECML and WCML would have been a bit stuffed if not!

[Flood]

BGs started to receive Commonwealth bogies from 1985 when the 923xx 100mph dual heat BGs and 952xx Newspaper BGs were renumbered.

 

The platform 5 coaching stock books for 1979 and 1980 state the NEV BGs as having BR1 bogies but from a thread on the yahoo coaching stock forum a year or so ago there is some confusion as to the true definition of BR1, BR2 and BR1 heavy weight bogies anyway. To the 4mm modeller the difference between types would be negligible.

 

As stated by Titan, the LM ran vacuum braked 100mph Mk1s in express trains from the first batches of Commonwealth bogied ones in the early 1960s right up to 1977 when the Manchester/Liverpool to West Country trains finally went over to Mk2 air braked stock. Now just because the trains were permitted to travel at 100mph doesn't mean that they were timed to do so. Strictly speaking Class 45s had a maximum speed of 90mph and Class 47s a maximum speed of 95mph (yes I do know of the exceptions).

Edited August 12, 2019 by Flood

[Flood]

I forgot to mention that there were some BR1 bogied NEA BGs on the Western until about 1977 (possibly other regions as well).

 

This was due to the fact that not enough B4 bogies were originally available so the vehicles in question had special maintenance to allow 100mph running. A number were given B4 bogies between 1974 and 1977 when they became available but there were still 6 examples running in October 1976. These were reallocated to the LM in 1977 but all of them had gained B4 bogies by 1979.

[Bomag]

3 hours ago, Titan said:

All Mk1's on commonwealth bogies were originally vac only and permitted to run at 100mph.  ECML and WCML would have been a bit stuffed if not!

 

Except for the last lot (BCKs) which were built or modified to air brakes before introduction for the SR.

[Norm81]

On 11/08/2019 at 10:39, Flood said:

At least two Bachmann BGs have been made with an air brake distributor but none have had the small air cylinders. The distributor is to the right of the battery box on the opaque window side.M84281 (39-175A) and M80955 (39-175D) are both so fitted but the first is numbered and lettered as a NDV (non passenger carrying, 90mph BG dual heat, vacuum braked) and the second is numbered and lettered as a NAV (non passenger carrying, 90mph BG steam heat, vacuum braked).

 

Strictly speaking until 1981 the only dual brake BGs were the 100 mph ones with B4 bogies. From early 1981 onwards more of the 90mph stock (with Mk1 bogies) were given dual brakes and coded NDX.

 

Ok, so I have an M84281 39-175A with the air brake distributor to the right of the battery box on the opaque window side. I can buy a pair of Bachmann B4 bogies for about £8, so the only question is do I need to find some small air cylinders to fit? If so I'd need to find somewhere to get them from (Bachmann really don't do spares) and some underframe detail pics for location, that I've already been struggling to find.

 

Thanks for all the helpful responses so far.

[Flood]

Personally I don't bother fitting them! Wizard models may do them, they certainly do the distributors and tanks.

 

Regarding underframe photos please see the thread below. Brian Daniels has some amazing photos on his flickr site, he provides a link to it in post#4.