Plymouth - Laira, Friary & Cattlewater

[dogbox321]

On 18/08/2019 at 13:09, Re6/6 said:

Dogbox, after digging deep into RMweb here's a link to a thread on the Cattewater line that I started back in 2012. 

 

Some very interesting stuff went on down there! Regrettably all now disappeared (Cattewater). The track that ran as far as the scrapyard may still be in place.

 

Hi, thanks.  Just had a "study of the photos, and it does answer one question - train operation to that part, was via a Staff Token (I am assuming it was a single portion and not split!)- so would that be from Friary?  Would that also be for the Scrap working and other parts of the line?  

 

If you do still have the extra photographs, then I would really appreciate seeing them.  I will PM you.

 

I wonder if with that curvature, instanters had to be put in there extended position, and any screw couplings loosened to negotiate that S bend?  Otherwise may have been buffer lock paradise!

 

Regards,

 

C.

Edited August 27, 2019 by dogbox321
Additional comment regarding curvature.

[dogbox321]

Does anyone have a copy of the works of Mr R A Watson - he did a "piece" on the railways of Plymouth, and said he would forward to anyone who would be interested, who PM'ed him.  Unfortunately, his last visit to RMWeb was February 9th 2014, so would not expect a PM to him would be of much benefit.

 

Regards,

 

C.

[Kris]

4 minutes ago, dogbox321 said:

Does anyone have a copy of the works of Mr R A Watson - he did a "piece" on the railways of Plymouth, and said he would forward to anyone who would be interested, who PM'ed him.  Unfortunately, his last visit to RMWeb was February 9th 2014, so would not expect a PM to him would be of much benefit.

 

Regards,

 

C.

I have a feeling the he may have passed away unfortunately. 

[dogbox321]

Just now, Kris said:

I have a feeling the he may have passed away unfortunately. 

 

Hi, thanks.  That was my "thought".  Hence I wondered if anyone else had a copy lurking at the back of their computers hard drive!  He said on this forum that he was happy for others to see the work, and it's amazing what you can detect from a photograph  (Like just finding out about the staff section, in the corner of a photo!).  Hence I'd really like to see a copy, if there was half a chance! 

 

This is exactly why I am asking the questions now, as if I ever get to do my model railway "Magnum-opus", it will form part of it, and as time passes more of the lines history will disappear.  Plus its very interesting!  Anyone with it - please feel free to PM me!

 

Regards,

 

C.

[Kris]

1 hour ago, dogbox321 said:

 

Hi, thanks.  That was my "thought".  Hence I wondered if anyone else had a copy lurking at the back of their computers hard drive!  He said on this forum that he was happy for others to see the work, and it's amazing what you can detect from a photograph  (Like just finding out about the staff section, in the corner of a photo!).  Hence I'd really like to see a copy, if there was half a chance! 

 

This is exactly why I am asking the questions now, as if I ever get to do my model railway "Magnum-opus", it will form part of it, and as time passes more of the lines history will disappear.  Plus its very interesting!  Anyone with it - please feel free to PM me!

 

Regards,

 

C.

Just found the post confirming my memory. 

 

 

[pb_devon]

11 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

 

Hi, thanks.  That was my "thought".  Hence I wondered if anyone else had a copy lurking at the back of their computers hard drive!  He said on this forum that he was happy for others to see the work, and it's amazing what you can detect from a photograph  (Like just finding out about the staff section, in the corner of a photo!).  Hence I'd really like to see a copy, if there was half a chance! 

 

This is exactly why I am asking the questions now, as if I ever get to do my model railway "Magnum-opus", it will form part of it, and as time passes more of the lines history will disappear.  Plus its very interesting!  Anyone with it - please feel free to PM me!

 

Regards,

 

C.

A search of RMweb produced a posting by Coombe Barton in 2012, which seemed to indicate he had a copy. If you find one, then I’d also welcome sight of it.

[Coombe Barton]

If anyone wants Wally Watson's work, then PM me with an email address and I'll send it.

 

Back in the sixties Wally and I volunteered on the Buckfastleigh line before it started. Chopping down trees was our speciality.

[Coombe Barton]

I lived above Laira from 1955-1963 (aged 4-13) and I remember Dad taking me for a walk on Sunday mornings and we stopped to look over the railway.

 

• Castles and Kings on London trains
• The occupation train (horse and two wagons with two people) on the 4' 6" gauge Lee Moor Tramway crossing the main lines by the pub that was below the embankment.
• Walking along the Lee Moor Tramway at Crabtree
• Not being allowed to cross the Tramway bridge over the Plym because it was too dangerous.
• In 1957, being taken on my first train ride from Marsh Mills to Yelverton and seeing the end of the Princetown branch being scrapped.
• Trains pulling into and out of Ocean siding.

And

• Millbay and the 1361 class shunters
• Walking the line from Devonport Kings Road to Stonehouse after closure
• The centenary celebrations for the Royal Albert Bridge
• Cattewater with tar wagons from the bitumen plant.
• Working out how locos turned using the triangle, and then having major shorts when I tried it on the model at home.

That's about it - I have books and pics, as I'm sure many people have.

 

[brianusa]

9 hours ago, Coombe Barton said:

I lived above Laira from 1955-1963 (aged 4-13) and I remember Dad taking me for a walk on Sunday mornings and we stopped to look over the railway.

 

• Castles and Kings on London trains
• The occupation train (horse and two wagons with two people) on the 4' 6" gauge Lee Moor Tramway crossing the main lines by the pub that was below the embankment.
• Walking along the Lee Moor Tramway at Crabtree 
• Not being allowed to cross the Tramway bridge over the Plym because it was too dangerous
•  
• In 1957, being taken on my first train ride from Marsh Mills to Yelverton and seeing the end of the Princetown branch being scrapped
• Trains pulling into and out of Ocean siding

And

• Millbay and the 1361 class shunters
• Walking the line from Devonport Kings Road to Stonehouse after closure
• The centenary celebrations for the Royal Albert Bridge
• Cattewater with tar wagons from the bitumen plant.
• Working out how locos turned using the triangle, and then having major shorts when I tried it on the model at home.

That's about it - I have books and pics, as I'm sure many people have.

 

 

John, like the post, could have been me a few years earlier!

        Brian.

[dogbox321]

Where have I got to......

 

Well I've established that the staff was kept at Tavistock Yard, and that as per my thoughts, wagon couplings did have to be loosened to go to Cattewater, so expect this was done in Friary!  There are two cab rides on You Tube - one going from Friary to Mount Gould, and one Friary to the Cattewater Branch - unfortunately only to the stop blocks past EMR's loading point, but at least it's something!

 

Oh, and I've invested in a Bachmann Freightliner twin-set, as the start for a possible Freightliner Service.  (As per photo of a 5 car set in the area!) 

 

Regards,

 

C.

 

   

[Mallard60022]

On ‎27‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 20:27, dogbox321 said:

 

Hi, thanks.  That was my "thought".  Hence I wondered if anyone else had a copy lurking at the back of their computers hard drive!  He said on this forum that he was happy for others to see the work, and it's amazing what you can detect from a photograph  (Like just finding out about the staff section, in the corner of a photo!).  Hence I'd really like to see a copy, if there was half a chance! 

 

This is exactly why I am asking the questions now, as if I ever get to do my model railway "Magnum-opus", it will form part of it, and as time passes more of the lines history will disappear.  Plus its very interesting!  Anyone with it - please feel free to PM me!

 

Regards,

 

C.

You could ask Siberian Snooper of the Parish. he was a close friend of the late Richard Watson; I had not seen Richard since I left School in 1966, except for a trip to Barry Scrapyard by rail in late 66 or early 67?

Phil (Stll can't find that damn video)

[royaloak]

3 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

and one Friary to the Cattewater Branch - unfortunately only to the stop blocks past EMR's loading point, but at least it's something!

It would be hard put to go any further as the track after the stop blocks was lifted a few years ago hence the stop blocks being put there.

Edited September 13, 2019 by royaloak

[Siberian Snooper]

3 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

You could ask Siberian Snooper of the Parish. he was a close friend of the late Richard Watson; I had not seen Richard since I left School in 1966, except for a trip to Barry Scrapyard by rail in late 66 or early 67?

Phil (Stll can't find that damn video)

 

I had his last computer,  but he didn't have the opportunity to move any of his files from the dead one.  The old one failed about 3 months before his untimely death.

 

 

[dogbox321]

3 hours ago, royaloak said:

It would be hard put to go any further as the track after the stop blocks was lifted a few years ago hence the stop blocks being put there.

 

 

Hi, I know, it were a real shame especially after they had renewed some track!  At least its a part of the way down. 

 

A couple of queries regarding the wash line -  When a loco hauled train went into the carriage wash, I take it the loco then went into Friary?  But did it then run round the train, or did a shunter then take the stock into Laira.  Also - which way do they wash - towards Friary, or Laira?  There is also 2 pieces of washing equipment - at both ends of the wash line.  So are both used,  and to use the aparatus towards the Friary end, I take it the train then has to proceed towards Friary?  Or did a train go to Friary and then run through towards the depot?

 

Regards,

 

C.  

 

[royaloak]

3 hours ago, dogbox321 said:

 

 

Hi, I know, it were a real shame especially after they had renewed some track!  At least its a part of the way down. 

 

A couple of queries regarding the wash line -  When a loco hauled train went into the carriage wash, I take it the loco then went into Friary?  But did it then run round the train, or did a shunter then take the stock into Laira.  Also - which way do they wash - towards Friary, or Laira?  There is also 2 pieces of washing equipment - at both ends of the wash line.  So are both used,  and to use the aparatus towards the Friary end, I take it the train then has to proceed towards Friary?  Or did a train go to Friary and then run through towards the depot?

 

Regards,

 

C.  

 

I am not sure about the procedure with loco hauled sets but I think an 08 attached to the Laira end and dragged the coaches through, I never actually watched the procedure sadly, I did live near Friary and I never noticed the locos running up there so they might have stayed on the back of the coaching stock as it was dragged from the cleaning apron, through the wash and into Laira.

 

They wash towards Laira, the cleaners clean the inside of the train on the apron ensuring all the windows are closed, then it is dragged through the wash, the first part of the wash is the chemical wash with brushes, then the road bridge, then the rinse with brushes (I think using recycled water), then the clean water spray.

[pb_devon]

On 13/09/2019 at 10:56, Mallard60022 said:

You could ask Siberian Snooper of the Parish. he was a close friend of the late Richard Watson; I had not seen Richard since I left School in 1966, except for a trip to Barry Scrapyard by rail in late 66 or early 67?

Phil (Stll can't find that damn video)

See the answer from Coombe Barton above on Aug 30th. PM him for a copy.

Edited September 14, 2019 by pb_devon

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, pb_devon said:

See the answer from Coombe Barton above on Aug 30th. PM him for a copy.

Thanks ever so, but I mean I can't find my copy of the Vid! Re the Wally Watson stuff..... I might have some of that somewhere but thanks again.

 

P

Edited September 14, 2019 by Mallard60022

[hmrspaul]

Only glimpsed through this.

Has there been any mention of the series in Backtrack last year & year before such as

Southern gone West: Plymouth and its Branches - Part Four: Plymouth in Wartime - by David Thrower. in April 2018.

David Thrower. Southern gone West: Plymouth and its branches. Part Five. Later British Railways days. 420-6.

Their index is http://www.pendragonpublishing.co.uk/html/april_2018.html or http://www.steamindex.com/backtrak/bt31.htm

to find others.

 

Paul

A few of my photos taken in the area are https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=plymouth

and https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=plympton 

There are others - early file names are a max of 8 characters!

Edited September 14, 2019 by hmrspaul

[dogbox321]

On 13/09/2019 at 18:24, royaloak said:

I am not sure about the procedure with loco hauled sets but I think an 08 attached to the Laira end and dragged the coaches through, I never actually watched the procedure sadly, I did live near Friary and I never noticed the locos running up there so they might have stayed on the back of the coaching stock as it was dragged from the cleaning apron, through the wash and into Laira.

 

They wash towards Laira, the cleaners clean the inside of the train on the apron ensuring all the windows are closed, then it is dragged through the wash, the first part of the wash is the chemical wash with brushes, then the road bridge, then the rinse with brushes (I think using recycled water), then the clean water spray.

 

Thanks for that!  In a Sectional Apendix circa 2003, locos were "supposed" to be disposed of via Friary, in text book.  But it would make sense to leave the loco tied on the back (if the mainline driver had got off, otherwise having to wait whilst the train got cleaned!).  Also - I would imagine loco shut down, so as not to disturb the houses in the area during the night?    I suppose it would also depend on the condition of the loco - as to whether it had any faults and needed to go in the Loco depot.  Another Question - HST's get fuelled on the front sidings, but where are locomotives fuelled?   On the odd occasion I went to Laira (whilst on holiday) in the late 80's, TPO's were kept in the HST sidings and the Hauled stock in Lipson, plus I can always remember 50032 picking up a set of NSE Mk2's from one of the two sidings next to the main line!  So did stock to Lipson go via the speedway, or through the HST Sidings (or possibly depend on the Operations Staff? 

 

Regards,

 

C.  

[Siberian Snooper]

The  fuelling facility used to be on the Embankment Road side of the depot,  before they built the HST shed.

 

 

[dogbox321]

Just now, Siberian Snooper said:

The  fuelling facility used to be on the Embankment Road side of the depot,  before they built the HST shed.

 

 

 

Hi, thanks - but after the HST Shed, what happened to locomotives then?  Thinking Cross Country and Postal 47's, 50's for Exeter-Waterloo's etc.

 

Thanks,

 

C.

[dogbox321]

40 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

Only glimpsed through this.

Has there been any mention of the series in Backtrack last year & year before such as

Southern gone West: Plymouth and its Branches - Part Four: Plymouth in Wartime - by David Thrower. in April 2018.

David Thrower. Southern gone West: Plymouth and its branches. Part Five. Later British Railways days. 420-6.

Their index is http://www.pendragonpublishing.co.uk/html/april_2018.html or http://www.steamindex.com/backtrak/bt31.htm

to find others.

 

Paul

A few of my photos taken in the area are https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=plymouth

and https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=plympton 

There are others - early file names are a max of 8 characters!

 

Hi - thanks Paul, you have some fantastic photos of stock recorded at Friary.  Likewise the information regarding "Backtrack".

 

I would have PM'ed you, but you don't have that facility.  Excuse the questions - but.....

 

Would you happen to know if the Cement/Petrol wagons were being unloaded in the yard, or were they en-route to Plymstock/Cattewater respectively?

 

I take it the majority of freight trains went to Friary, in their own right, and were not tripped from Tavistock Yard?  (I recall seeing a photo of a Class 50 with a train from Friary, heading up country)

 

Recall any types of loco, apart from Class 08?  I have seen a photo of a Weedkilling train with 37196 going down the branches, hence wondering if in the earlier days the use of mainline locomotives was a common, or an irregular occurrence?  I know circa 2003 only Class 66 were permitted to EMR, and Class 08 along to Cattewater.  09's were not even allowed according to the S Appendix. (perhaps they were worried about them speeding!) 

 

Many Thanks,

 

C.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KeithMacdonald]

On 31/08/2019 at 10:55, Coombe Barton said:

• Trains pulling into and out of Ocean siding.

 

I fancy Ocean Quay as a modelling opportunity, as I've not seen it done by anyone else (yet?). I'm just wondering where to find any pictures of the quayside station. The only pic I've found so far is very grainy and small / far away.

 

https://wiki2.org/en/Ocean_Quay_railway_station+Newton#Ocean_Quay

 

 

Anyone found anything better?

Here's what the track looked like:

 

[Coombe Barton]

45 minutes ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

I fancy Ocean Quay as a modelling opportunity, as I've not seen it done by anyone else (yet?). I'm just wondering where to find any pictures of the quayside station. The only pic I've found so far is very grainy and small / far away.

 

https://wiki2.org/en/Ocean_Quay_railway_station+Newton#Ocean_Quay

 

 

Anyone found anything better?

Here's what the track looked like:

 

 

I was talking about the one at Crabtree adjacent to the Plym

 

[brianusa]

Hi John, in all my Plymouth books there's invariably a picture of the grandly named Ocean Siding.  Over the years that old boat seemingly stuck in the mud has slowly deteriorated to a few rotten pieces of wood and soon nothing will be above the waterline.  I have seen a name "WREN" mentioned along with another.  Its been there ever since my early train spotting days but there is little chance of finding out more about it after all this time.

     Brian.