royaloak Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) Costs of leaving Sundays outside the working week- The hourly rate, probably time and a quarter or time and a third. Possibility that you wont have enough drivers to cover the service on a Sunday if drivers make themselves unavailable, this does actually cost the TOC in cancellation payments Costs of bringing Sundays inside the working week- Renegotiation of the Terms and Conditions, probably increase in hourly rate at the very least, possible reduction in hours worked per week plus lots of other possibilities too numerous to mention As Sundays become a normal working day the pay is now pensionable so an increase in pension contributions, also an increase because of the increase in the hourly rate Need to recruit and train more drivers probably between 25 and 33% more, plus more required if the working week has been reduced More Managers because of the increase in driver numbers, there are limits to how many drivers a Manager can manage More equipment and uniform, more drivers so more of both required, possible need to increase the locker space at the depots as well, more costs There are more but I think thats enough to be going on with! So quite expensive and with only a 5 or 7 year franchise is it worth all the effort, plus a major (expensive) change like this would have to be approved by the DaFT and guess what, they probably wont agree that increase in subsidy because that wasnt what was agreed when the franchise was let, now if it was specified in the franchise agreement they might have a chance, but if it isnt there isnt a cat in hells chance of it happening, so hardly the Managements fault is it, well except to some! Edited December 8, 2019 by royaloak 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted December 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) The red army on the gate line at new st was all change this morning, plain dark blue jackets now, not as noticeable to joe public if they require help that’s for sure this made me laugh off another forum..... Avanti now being called Awanti by staff in Glasgow - Ah want tae go home Edited December 8, 2019 by big jim 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 8, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, royaloak said: As Sundays become a normal working day the pay is now pensionable so an increase in pension contributions, also an increase because of the increase in the hourly rate I didn't work for the railway but I was in public service. I'm sure any overtime I worked was included in the pension as we paid a fixed percentage of pre-tax earnings. The employer also paying more. Likewise when I retired I got a lump sum based on my total earnings in the previous 12 (?) months, so overtime was sought when available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Northern have been a mess since the timetable change a year or so ago, for example lots of cancelled trains for driver training. This is down to the new in my opinion stupid routes for example local stopping trains Crewe via Wilmslow to Manchester now sometimes goto Wigan or Southport. This has lead to extra training, more unit miles on old stock often 142/153 combination on electrified lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Overtime was not taken into account when I retired on my final salary pension, but our yearly bonus was. The best of the last three years earnings so I remember. Every scheme has differing rules though. Sunday working seems to be a bee in the bonnet for some railway drivers. We will soon (don't laugh) need a virtual 24/7 railway, certainly in our large conurbations as climate change etc forces on us all reduced car use etc. This is a problem that needs sorting soon. The railway unions need to look at this from both the viewpoint of the membership and the fare paying customer (which I doubt they will do). We cannot return to being held to ransom by the unions (and yes I was, and still am a lifelong union member). Yes driving trains is a responsible job and deserves decent pay. Also the technology push could see the elimination of drivers as well as guards in the future, a move I am against actually, though over in the USA with their mile plus long freight trains it is seriously being looked at. No stopping technology (AKA cost cutting) these days. I'll go back to service, I still remember the gross inconvenience caused by the Northern Rail guards dispute last year, a horrendous time for the fare payer. This year new trains coming on line and no-one to dive them due to no forward planning. Nobody gives a toss anymore - NO ONE - Broken Britain 2019. One good point - I earlier dropped my daughter off at a re-branded Wigan North Western. Her train to Lancaster 1S90 London to Glasgow arrived 2 minutes late, just arrived in Lancaster on time - I'll not complain about that, and wish Avanti well - time will tell. Brit15 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, APOLLO said: Sunday working seems to be a bee in the bonnet for some railway drivers. We will soon (don't laugh) need a virtual 24/7 railway, certainly in our large conurbations as climate change etc forces on us all reduced car use etc. This is a problem that needs sorting soon. The railway unions need to look at this from both the viewpoint of the membership and the fare paying customer (which I doubt they will do). We cannot return to being held to ransom by the unions (and yes I was, and still am a lifelong union member). In general I suspect Sunday working isn't a big issue with the drivers, or for the union. From the union perspective anything that increases the number of union members is going to be a good thing, and having scheduled Sunday work requires an increase in the the number of drivers - and hence union members. The big issue really is simply that the government isn't willing to pay for the extra workers, whether it be in higher subsidies for the TOCs that operate at a loss or lower premiums from those that make a profit. 1 hour ago, APOLLO said: Yes driving trains is a responsible job and deserves decent pay. Also the technology push could see the elimination of drivers as well as guards in the future, a move I am against actually, though over in the USA with their mile plus long freight trains it is seriously being looked at. No stopping technology (AKA cost cutting) these days. The battle in the US has started with the American railroads launching legal action against the union to force it negotiate on dropping crew sizes to 1 (unsure given the lack of information who is in the right). https://www.freightwaves.com/news/u-s-freight-railroads-file-lawsuit-against-rail-workers-union-over-train-crew-size 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afroal05 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Found in the cab of 390121 today, not sure how many more cabs have been adorned with such stickers! VT living on on the passenger door displays too with the display under 'Train Number' displaying 'VT1B21' 5 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 A nice touch, makes a change from all the permanent marker written unofficial names in the cabs of class 66s! Jo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Good for 140mph as well - maybe one day eh. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, woodenhead said: Good for 140mph as well - maybe one day eh. They were designed for 140mph. No so useful when you belt out of Euston & catch a 350 which left 5 minutes earlier, then have to follow at 100-110. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: They were designed for 140mph. No so useful when you belt out of Euston & catch a 350 which left 5 minutes earlier, then have to follow at 100-110. A lack of cab signalling doesn't help either. All those plans Railtrack had and then they went about slashing maintenance costs in the pursuit of profit. Kinda glad they didn't do the cab signalling now. Edited December 9, 2019 by woodenhead Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted December 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 9, 2019 The new order livery on the WCML.... Pic from flickr 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6990WitherslackHall Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, newbryford said: The new order livery on the WCML.... Pic from flickr Loving the new livery. reminds me of a Class 395 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: They were designed for 140mph. No so useful when you belt out of Euston & catch a 350 which left 5 minutes earlier, then have to follow at 100-110. Not really useful at all on anything except a dedicated railway (which might have been what Virgin were trying to get out of Railtrack). It might have worked in the beginning, but once you have another operator wanting to run trains that can't keep up with the 125mph Pendolinos but outrun the 75mph freights and stopping services the result is a mess in terms of line capacity. Jim 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 13 minutes ago, 6990WitherslackHall said: Loving the new livery. reminds me of a Class 395 Still red on the inside. At least Avanti will deal with that, Cross Country haven't done a thing inside the Voyagers apart from ripping out the shop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6990WitherslackHall Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, woodenhead said: Still red on the inside. At least Avanti will deal with that, Cross Country haven't done a thing inside the Voyagers apart from ripping out the shop. Didn't know there was a shop inside them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, 6990WitherslackHall said: Didn't know there was a shop inside them. Under Virgin there was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6990WitherslackHall Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, woodenhead said: Under Virgin there was. Any ideas what it sold? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Just now, 6990WitherslackHall said: Any ideas what it sold? Same as the shops on a Pendolino I imagine, but it wasn't somewhere i visited, once you got/get a seat on a Voyager you don't get up. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6990WitherslackHall Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 minute ago, woodenhead said: Same as the shops on a Pendolino I imagine, but it wasn't somewhere i visited, once you got/get a seat on a Voyager you don't get up. Cos i presume someone will steal your seat. Which is annoying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6990WitherslackHall Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said: They were designed for 140mph. No so useful when you belt out of Euston & catch a 350 which left 5 minutes earlier, then have to follow at 100-110. i thought the only trains that were allowed to go 125mph on the mainline Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, woodenhead said: Still red on the inside. At least Avanti will deal with that, Cross Country haven't done a thing inside the Voyagers apart from ripping out the shop. Red (well, maroon might be a better description) is one of the colours in the XC scheme though, so if it didn't need doing for wear reasons then probably best not spending loads of money on it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zomboid said: Red (well, maroon might be a better description) is one of the colours in the XC scheme though, so if it didn't need doing for wear reasons then probably best not spending loads of money on it. The units are pretty distinctively Virgin on the inside, something that shows up well when you board a Cross Country and it looks like a poor man's Virgin train on the inside. But Avanti are going to fully refurbish the interiors so hopefully the cuffs will match the collars going forwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, woodenhead said: Still red on the inside. At least Avanti will deal with that, Cross Country haven't done a thing inside the Voyagers apart from ripping out the shop. Er.....wasn’t that the “refreshment bar” or what was intended as such ? To XC it took up valuable cattle space.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said: Er.....wasn’t that the “refreshment bar” or what was intended as such ? To XC it took up valuable cattle space.... It will be, i wasnt sure if they left in a bit of buffet or not. I'm surprised that XC didn't put in a couple of longer stops en-route so that people could get out, stretch their legs, go to the loo and buy a drink at a buffet (like the old days) so they could also rip out the loos and luggage areas. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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