First Group wins the West Coast.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 hours ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

 

i thought the only trains that were allowed to go 125mph on the mainline

I am not sure what you mean.

If you are assuming the fast lines from Euston to Roade are used only by 125mph services then this is not the case.

350s don't exclusively use the slow lines out of Euston. LNWR services to Crewe use the fast lines all the way to Rugby. Birmingham via Northampton services use the fast lines as far as Cheddington, switching to the slow lines at Ledburn Junction.

Careful timetabling is required to prevent Pendolinos from catching these up.

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, royaloak said:

Sundays were NEVER part of the working week on BR, come privatisation the TOCs could have negotiated it inside but most of them didnt want to because of the costs involved, Stagecoach did on SWT meaning Sundays were inside the working week and paid at flat rate just like the other 6 days of the week.

Just a matter of correcting a fact but Sundays were a part of the working week on Eurostar when it was part of BR - and that applied to everybody working for the company, not  just traincrew etc.  And effectively throughout BR Sundays could be part of the working week for Management grade (and higher) staff but they were never seen as such - if you had to work a Sunday you simply worked it.

 

Costs are interesting thing but as an illustration I could, and did, hire out EurostarDrivers (I was one of the earliest in Britain to hire out traction and Drivers) but my day hire rate for a driver was cheaper per hour than anybody else in the hire game back then although we had the highest rate of pay for Drivers among main line operators.  one reason was that our overheads were much lower plus we v could offer 9 hour turns without any overtime costs.  putting Sundays in the roster obviously costs more staff for the simple reason that you have more hours of work to cover.  But it can produce savings in rostering costs and it produces considerable savings in overall admin and paybill costs plus offering a far more predicatble, and consistent, operating costs.  the really expensive bit is changing to it!!

 

On 08/12/2019 at 13:11, Paul80 said:

In a situation like this, what happens to Virgins rolling stock, do the have to pass it on to the new company or do the new company have to find enough stock to run the service from day one, if they don't pass them on what happens to Virgins stock, is there a big trainset sale going on. 

 

Just wondering what happens in a setuation when they have a franchise change? 

Already answered for stock etc but there was an amusing sidelight on all this in the early days of franchising when at the end of their franchise term one company decided to check what assets they had actually had to but outright during the term of their franchise.  I was repeated variously around the industry as one pc/word processor - everything else from rolling stock and locos right down to office desks, chairs, and potted plants was leased although they had obviously paid for such  things as rolling stock to be put into their livery and publicity material etc.

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I am not sure what you mean.

If you are assuming the fast lines from Euston to Roade are used only by 125mph services then this is not the case.

350s don't exclusively use the slow lines out of Euston. LNWR services to Crewe use the fast lines all the way to Rugby. Birmingham via Northampton services use the fast lines as far as Cheddington, switching to the slow lines at Ledburn Junction.

Careful timetabling is required to prevent Pendolinos from catching these up.

I once went on a LM service from Birmingham to London Euston, due to a problem with the train it arrived late at Northampton and terminated there.

A substitute service had already left for Euston before we arrived but another train was waiting for the passengers from the West Midlands.

This duly left some 30+(?) mins behind the original schedule and went fast line non stop from Hanslope Junction to Euston.

I assume we sat at 110mph all the way as there were no signal checks.

We actually arrived 10mins before the original scheduled time!

[royaloak]

21 hours ago, melmerby said:

I didn't work for the railway but I was in public service.

I'm sure any overtime I worked was included in the pension as we paid a fixed percentage of pre-tax earnings.

The employer also paying more.

Likewise when I retired I got a lump sum based on my total earnings in the previous 12 (?) months, so overtime was sought when available.

Not for us our pension contributions remain the same regardless of what we earn.

[royaloak]

21 hours ago, APOLLO said:

I'll go back to service, I still remember the gross inconvenience caused by the Northern Rail guards dispute last year, a horrendous time for the fare payer. This year new trains coming on line and no-one to dive them due to no forward planning. Nobody gives a toss anymore - NO ONE - Broken Britain 2019.

Please explain how they are supposed to teach the drivers to drive the new trains when they hadnt been delivered?

 

Now they are being delivered and rushed into service Northern are having to take more drivers off for training than they can afford to or want to, but they are damned if they do and damned if they dont, Northern had naff all to do with the delivery schedule.

Edited December 9, 2019 by royaloak

[APOLLO]

By forward planning within and between all involved from DFT down, recruiting staff appropriately, right from the decision was made to order new trains in quantity. Then deliver the trains to a suitable programme where sufficient numbers of drivers are available for training on them without compromising the timetable. 

 

Too many drivers then ? - Sunday rostering sorted.

 

Yes it takes a long time to train drivers, but all this should have been thought about a long time ago. Penny (well, pound) pinching at the cost of (and aggravation to) the fare payer, the poor sods glaring at you as you swish to a halt alongside them !!

 

Drive safely  and have a merry christmas.

 

Brit15

Edited December 9, 2019 by APOLLO
typo

[AY Mod]

OK, can we get back to West Coast please?

[woodenhead]

Nice moving shots of the new livery from Mr Smile

 

I quite like it.

 

 

[Zomboid]

Looks smart, but personally I prefer LNERs scheme.

[Hilux5972]

Just saw this image on the Rail Advent website. I think the livery suits the Pendo really well. I look forward to seeing the new interiors when they are done. 

[4630]

Several more of 390156 wearing the new Avanti West Coast livery.

 

390156 arriving with 5Z17, 09.45 Wembley Inter City Depot to London Euston.

 

After the naming ceremony, waiting to depart with 1Z17, 10.33 London Euston to Glasgow Central...

 

... and departing Crewe.

[6990WitherslackHall]

17 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I am not sure what you mean.

If you are assuming the fast lines from Euston to Roade are used only by 125mph services then this is not the case.

350s don't exclusively use the slow lines out of Euston. LNWR services to Crewe use the fast lines all the way to Rugby. Birmingham via Northampton services use the fast lines as far as Cheddington, switching to the slow lines at Ledburn Junction.

Careful timetabling is required to prevent Pendolinos from catching these up.

 

You said yesterday that the Pendolinos were designed for going 140mph.  I thought that trains were only allowed to go up to 125mph. 

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

 

You said yesterday that the Pendolinos were designed for going 140mph.  I thought that trains were only allowed to go up to 125mph. 

They were designed like the Class 91s to go at 140 mph - but the track signalling would have to be significantly upgraded (to in cab signalling) for them to be able to travel above 125.

[newbryford]

Third three class travel may be on the cards.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/new-rail-operator-avanti-to-offer-premium-economy-fares-on-west-coast-mainline-rkrvvw9hc

 

Edited for clarity

Edited December 10, 2019 by newbryford

[Owd Bob]

I can just picture a couple of beer crates and a plank put across 'em for a seat and a bit of saw-dust spread on the coach floor for the poor and destitute 'third class' folks like myself. Economy class sounds a lot better.

[hexagon789]

9 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Third class travel may be on the cards.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/new-rail-operator-avanti-to-offer-premium-economy-fares-on-west-coast-mainline-rkrvvw9hc

Not so much Third Clss as an intermediate class between First and Standard, coupled with a reduction to 3 First Class-style coaches across the 390 fleet.

 

The Premium Economy is proposed to use part of the First Class accomodation but offer it at a lower fare than full First by not including any complimentary food or drinks. Essentially you pay just for the better seat, nothing more.

[woodenhead]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50717886

 

More here - so how will this work on a peak hour train when normally all of second class is full.

 

Hopefully premium comes off the first class area and not a reduction in second class.

 

Or does second class become premium and as Mick intimates a return of third class - that would be similar to Costa and it's new cup size where prices remain similar but you get less for you money and they slot in a new size somewhere.

[hexagon789]

Just now, Owd Bob said:

I can just picture a couple of beer crates and a plank put across 'em for a seat and a bit of saw-dust spread on the coach floor for the poor and destitute 'third class' folks like myself. Economy class sounds a lot better.

 

They aren't changing the interior layouts of the 390s per se, all they are doing is labelling part of the existing First Class as "Premium Economy" and marketing it as such. The lowest price class will remain exactly as Standard Class now.

 

No "Virgin Value" class as was originally proposed with the Voyagers ;)

[hexagon789]

1 minute ago, woodenhead said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50717886

 

More here - so how will this work on a peak hour train when normally all of second class is full.

 

Hopefully premium comes off the first class area and not a reduction in second class.

 

Or does second class become premium and as Mick intimates a return of third class - that would be similar to Costa and it's new cup size where prices remain similar but you get less for you money and they slot in a new size somewhere.

 

Yes, the new Class utilises part of the current First Class which will be reduced to 3-cars across both lengths of 390. There is no new Third Class.

[Pete the Elaner]

3 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

 

Yes, the new Class utilises part of the current First Class which will be reduced to 3-cars across both lengths of 390. There is no new Third Class.

Regarding the use of 9 & 11 carriage 390s: when they were first lengthened, the use of them seemed to be a little random so when catching the same service in the morning, it was 11 for about 70% of the time & 9 for the rest.

This has settled so the 9 carriage trains now seem to have their regular services.

I wonder if the change of ToC will affect this?

[newbryford]

8 minutes ago, hexagon789 said:

 

 There is no new Third Class.

 

I've altered my post slightly for clarity.

I used "Third" for tabloid effect...…………………..

[hexagon789]

3 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Regarding the use of 9 & 11 carriage 390s: when they were first lengthened, the use of them seemed to be a little random so when catching the same service in the morning, it was 11 for about 70% of the time & 9 for the rest.

This has settled so the 9 carriage trains now seem to have their regular services.

I wonder if the change of ToC will affect this?

 

They do have set diagrams for 9 and 11-car, but there are times where a 9-car subs for an 11. You would assume that initially at least this won't change, but that it will almost certainly change when the new EMUs and bi-modes arrive to replace Voyagers.

 

 

[surfsup]

21 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

Er.....wasn’t that the “refreshment bar” or what was intended as such ? To XC it took up valuable cattle space....

 

Indeed, but it's replacement was hardly that great either. 2 Poor Cycle Spaces that was smaller than the original ones, and 2 very large and poorly advertised, But Air Conditioned*, Luggage Racks! 

 

*Yes, I have no idea why those luggage racks have a air conditioner to themselves either. Probably to make your luggage smell better than you after a trip on a XC Voyager! 

[woodenhead]

38 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Regarding the use of 9 & 11 carriage 390s: when they were first lengthened, the use of them seemed to be a little random so when catching the same service in the morning, it was 11 for about 70% of the time & 9 for the rest.

This has settled so the 9 carriage trains now seem to have their regular services.

I wonder if the change of ToC will affect this?

The 11 cars appeared to be for the busier services - certainly Manchester as I've seen guards reject a train because it was 9 cars and the expected loading was for 11.

 

Glasgow trains have been 9 cars I think - there will be some 11 cars on busier services but generally they are less filled than the Northwest services.

[hexagon789]

38 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

I've altered my post slightly for clarity.

I used "Third" for tabloid effect...…………………..

Oh I realised that

 

But you'll excuse me for wanting to make it clear that that is not what's actually happening.