First Group wins the West Coast.

[hexagon789]

Just now, woodenhead said:

The 11 cars appeared to be for the busier services - certainly Manchester as I've seen guards reject a train because it was 9 cars and the expected loading was for 11.

 

Glasgow trains have been 9 cars I think - there will be some 11 cars on busier services but generally they are less filled than the Northwest services.

Generally the Glasgow fasts are 11, the via Birminghams 9 or theoretically a double 221. Almost all of the time I'm in Glasgow Central either service is an 11-car 390.

[wombatofludham]

Premium Economy?

 

"Avanti"
"Well you can't have any, it's reserved for First Class passengers"

[caradoc]

3 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

Generally the Glasgow fasts are 11, the via Birminghams 9 or theoretically a double 221. Almost all of the time I'm in Glasgow Central either service is an 11-car 390.

 

From my travels on the WCML from and to Glasgow, I would generally agree (although there is one, at least, Glasgow/Euston via Birmingham each way which is a single 221 only - Trains I avoid like the plague). However on two consecutive Sundays last month I caught the 1120 Birmingham New St-Glasgow Central, which was 11 cars the first occasion and 9 the second !

 

Presumably on a 9-car, First Class will be reduced to two vehicles to accomodate Premium Economy ? 

 

[Reorte]

4 hours ago, hexagon789 said:

 

Yes, the new Class utilises part of the current First Class which will be reduced to 3-cars across both lengths of 390. There is no new Third Class.

 

Have to wait to see how it all works out but it sounds like a potentially good idea if it helps free up some space in standard. A lot will doubtless depend on the pricing.

[Reorte]

29 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Presumably on a 9-car, First Class will be reduced to two vehicles to accomodate Premium Economy ? 

 

If it's simply down to what at-seat services you get then it might be that they'll share the same accommodation.

[caradoc]

6 minutes ago, Reorte said:

If it's simply down to what at-seat services you get then it might be that they'll share the same accommodation.

 

Not sure how that would work in practice; The catering staff don't check tickets before serving passengers in First Class (unless that is a planned change maybe ?)

 

[woodenhead]

This premium economy is interesting - the users get light snack in place of a meal

 

Is this actually Avanti in some way abolishing First Class on some services?

 

Currently not all First Class trains attract a meal - it's breakfast and dinner (tea for us Northerners) - outside of that they throw a sandwich at you and offer you a drink.  Weekends I believe all services are like this.

 

The light refreshment sounds very much like the in between cooked meals service so effectively the same as premium economy.  Take out the at seat service and tell the passengers to go to the buffet and hey presto staff savings on many services.

 

Or am I just an enormous cynic and this is all about generating extra income

[hexagon789]

38 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

Have to wait to see how it all works out but it sounds like a potentially good idea if it helps free up some space in standard. A lot will doubtless depend on the pricing.

I haven't heard how they plan to arrange it across the coaches yet

[lmsforever]

Virgin had scaled back meal service in first class this year when we left Glasgow last Feb  all we got in first class was crisps fruit no hot food until Preston not good. If first class diluted they will lose customers it is still a good value ticket  now but we shall have to wait and see what the bright boys decide.

[jim.snowdon]

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

Have to wait to see how it all works out but it sounds like a potentially good idea if it helps free up some space in standard. A lot will doubtless depend on the pricing.

It reminds me of the Silver Standard that InterCity tried for a while back in BR days, still standard class but not available to reduced price tickets.

 

Jim

[Paul.Uni]

Nectar points are being offered by Avanti West Coast https://www.avantiwestcoast.co.uk/offers/rewards/nectar-points

 

Exactly the same as the previous Virgin Trains offer, 2 points for each pound spent as long as at least part of the journey is on a Avanti West Coast service.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Paul.Uni

[4630]

There was a fairly splendid model* of a Pendolino in the new Avanti West Coast colours at the launch event at London Euston on 9th December.

 

 

I wasn't able to get close to examine them so I'm guessing that they were done as a commission repaint job over a standard Hornby Pendolino.

 

Nevertheless, subject to gaining appropriate licensing I imagine that Hornby and Revolution Trains will be on the case, if they're not already. 

 

*There were, I think, 3 separate identical models presented at the launch..

Edited December 11, 2019 by 4630

[Legend]

Nicer looking as a model than the real life livery I think. That’s because the model looks a little more blue than green .  Must just be the lighting . I wonder if it’s too late for Hornby to include in their program or maybe they would have had advance notice of livery? Maybe more likely for 2021 . 

[melmerby]

Here's a real one:

 

The hue seems very affected by the direction of the sunlight on it

 

Compare to this:

[DavidB-AU]

Not at all surprised about bring back 3 class travel. It works for airlines. The margin on premium economy is higher than business or first class.

 

Cheers

David

[The Stationmaster]

On 10/12/2019 at 19:28, jim.snowdon said:

It reminds me of the Silver Standard that InterCity tried for a while back in BR days, still standard class but not available to reduced price tickets.

 

Jim

In reality is' more or less an exact copy of what was done at Eurostar only using different names.  First Class accommodation is divided into two with (on Eurostar) a massive difference in catering and various freebies between the two newly created 'classes'.  On West Coast the naming is different (as no doubt is 'the offer' to each grade of accommodation) so teh sales pitch will also differ.  Makes more sense  for the WCML version to be pushed as Premium Economy because it will probably have a much larger market for Standard Class upgrades.

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

In reality is' more or less an exact copy of what was done at Eurostar only using different names.  First Class accommodation is divided into two with (on Eurostar) a massive difference in catering and various freebies between the two newly created 'classes'.  On West Coast the naming is different (as no doubt is 'the offer' to each grade of accommodation) so teh sales pitch will also differ.  Makes more sense  for the WCML version to be pushed as Premium Economy because it will probably have a much larger market for Standard Class upgrades.

It will be interesting to watch. The underlying problem has long been the chronic over provision of first class on the Pendolino sets, with most of it running largely empty. The few times I have seen it well filled have been on morning Birmingham services.

 

Jim

[big jim]

Just has my first trip in avanti and I won’t lie I was dreading it with it being a couple of days before Christmas but all was good! 

 

I booked the tickets via virgin back in October, 1st class treat for my wife’s birthday, the table seats I booked after moving my original allocation were still allocated to us which is what I was bothered about as the original 4 were separate single seats, the ticket was an advance 1st class family ticket which cost £100

 

on the return trip we got to Euston just as the station was evacuated for a suspicious package but it was reopened after a 10 mins wait outside, no huge issue as we left on time

 

the return journey was going to be a 2nd class trip That when pre-booked cost me £26 but avanti are on the Seatfrog app so I bid on a first class upgrade and won 4 upgrades for £80 total, the auction finishes 30 mins before the train departure so once I won it it was straight into the 1st class lounge to abuse, sorry, use the facilities before boarding the Train into reserved seats, a nice bit of food (sandwiches), hot and cold drinks and snacks etc

 

first time I’ve used Seatfrog and quite impressed by it, had I bought the 4 single tickets there and then they would have cost me £390 

 

the biggest noticeable difference since avanti have taken over is the drab uniform, not that I was looking out for anyone but during the wait to be allowed into the station there was a distinct lack of the familiar red coats milling around to help, the staff were there and helping people but were a lot harder to spot in a crowd in their new dark blue jackets 

[Pete the Elaner]

12 hours ago, big jim said:

Just has my first trip in avanti and I won’t lie I was dreading it with it being a couple of days before Christmas but all was good! 

 

the biggest noticeable difference since avanti have taken over is the drab uniform, not that I was looking out for anyone but during the wait to be allowed into the station there was a distinct lack of the familiar red coats milling around to help, the staff were there and helping people but were a lot harder to spot in a crowd in their new dark blue jackets 

 

I would expect Avanti to have tupe'd a large majority of their staff from Virgin, so they would be used to running things the same way they have since they got used to doing things 'the Virgin way'.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 11/12/2019 at 22:49, melmerby said:

Here's a real one:

 

 

The hue seems very affected by the direction of the sunlight on it

 

Compare to this:

 

 

That's just inviting a huge debate of how wrong the colour is if/when a model gets released. 

[big jim]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I would expect Avanti to have tupe'd a large majority of their staff from Virgin, so they would be used to running things the same way they have since they got used to doing things 'the Virgin way'.

Yes the staff are the same, all tupe’d over so they know what they are doing, some good, some bad! 

 

No different than when I was with FNW, when we swapped to wales and borders, and then Arriva wales 7 weeks later it was nothing but a new uniform for us on the front line! 
 

 

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I would expect Avanti to have tupe'd a large majority of their staff from Virgin, so they would be used to running things the same way they have since they got used to doing things 'the Virgin way'.

Right to the very top IIRC - so day 1 of running should have been no different to the last day of Virgin - except for the website which we won't speak of.

 

I know a lot of people weren't keen on beardy bloke who was a figurehead, but the operation of the WCML was slick if you ask me, there were problems of course but it didn't feature in the news every day nor were there regular calls for Virgin to be stripped of the franchise or a constant concern they would simply give it up.

[Pete the Elaner]

Just now, woodenhead said:

I know a lot of people weren't keen on beardy bloke who was a figurehead, but the operation of the WCML was slick if you ask me.

 

I've never understood why people dislike him. It seems to stem from his cross-Atlantic balloon attempts 

He is just someone who has a knack of getting into & out of things at the right time. Who cares how he spends his money?

I have heard that he is actually a really good boss & anyone with a grievance within the company can call him directly & he does actually sort the problem out.

 

Virgin took over 2 of the most difficult franchises. WCML & Cross Country both operate very long distance services, both crossing lots of other routes. A slight delay anywhere has a knock on effect so they are bound to suffer worse delays than most. Taking this into consideration, I think the service they provided was pretty good.

 

On another point, I have heard that Avante plan to refurbish the Pendolino fleet. Is this true?

From a passenger's point of view, they seem ok. Unlike the Mk3As in their latter days, the Pendolinos don't rattle, have a good ride, the seat cushions still provide some cushioning, the toilets usually work & I have never seen a failed vestibule door.

Are the electric & mechanical systems tired or have I been given false information?

[lmsforever]

Agree about Branson he ran a good project trains always clean good staff  he seems to be backing out of many of his project now so people wnt be able to moan about him.

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

On another point, I have heard that Avante plan to refurbish the Pendolino fleet. Is this true?

From a passenger's point of view, they seem ok. Unlike the Mk3As in their latter days, the Pendolinos don't rattle, have a good ride, the seat cushions still provide some cushioning, the toilets usually work & I have never seen a failed vestibule door.

Are the electric & mechanical systems tired or have I been given false information?

I think it is more the internal cosmetics - the trains look Virgin and tired inside.