How do you replace the Old metal wheels on H/Dublo wagons.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I have been going through my collection of wagons and realised that I have several H/D 3 rail wagons with metal wheels I would still like to run on 2 rail. I have never tried to replace these wheels before and would like to know how to do it. The wagons are a couple of single axel bolster and bogie bolster plus two wagons that I thing a weltrol single axel wagons.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Are you prepared to carve into them? Take out the metal tab retainers, cut clearance into the axle box castings, install brass pinpoint bearings in the tabs (if the axle holes are not grossly worn) is one way. (An extremely free rolling H-D wagon may cause other problems, but an axle drag is easy to arrange.)

[DCB]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

Are you prepared to carve into them? Take out the metal tab retainers, cut clearance into the axle box castings, install brass pinpoint bearings in the tabs (if the axle holes are not grossly worn) is one way. (An extremely free rolling H-D wagon may cause other problems, but an axle drag is easy to arrange.)

Its not that  difficult.    I have done loads of these.  I must have 200 or so H/D wagon chassis in service.   Don't hoik out the old axles by bending them in the middle! it wrecks the axle hangers.

 

For the single bolster, all tinplate body 4 wheel wagons, Conflats, most tanks, plastic bodied covered vans,  Remove the body, bend up the tab on the axle hanger tab very carefully and let the wheels drop out. 

Find a suitable wheelset, one which fits up into the Recess in the H/D axlebox.  I find  H/D Plastic or Wrenn are best as the flange matches the H/D original. As an alternative use the Jackson Romford plain end. If its too tong file it down, if its too long and pin point you might be able to file the point off and use it. Check the axle is a good fit in the hanger, some are round holes some elongated, and some worn.  

Reassemble being very careful to ensure the axle hanger loops around the bottom of the axlebox and does not foul the wheel.  Be careful bending the tabs back, I have a 90% success rate. and be careful that the wagon sits level, if not tweak the hangers. 

 

For Pin point bearings, Find a suitable Pin Point axle. some play not a tight fit.   Lima fit nicely, so I guess they are H0 width.  Take a top hat pin point bearing and file the pin point off .   I find a piece of thin steel drill a hole so the bearing fits through and put it on the bench to stop the bearing escaping while filing.   I open up the hole in the H/D axle hanger so the bearing fits snugly.  Offer up the two hangers, two top hat bearings and the axle to the chassis, I let the hangers droop down at this stage. It it fits then assemble it. I don't solder the bearings in. If it don't fit shorten the top hat bearings some more.  I have done many many of these and never had one fail yet. If you use Lima wheel sets you need 4 per wagon as you have to fit 4 insulated wheels or else the wagon chassis is live to one rail and Lima are insulated only one side.

For SD Plastic body open wagons drill out the coupling securing rivet which holds the body on, and continue.  Trouble is you then need a way to attach the coupling, I have used countersunk screws and nuts, 8BA probably and used a Romford 1/8th driving wheel bush filed to suit as a coupling pivot.  Usually I find I can re use the shortened rivet to hold the coupling to the chassis and then glue the body back on.  Alternatively use a 8BA countersunk bolt and a shortened Romford 1.8 axle bush as a coupling pivot and fixing screw compbned.

The Bogie bolster and Well are very  difficult as there is little clearance to re attach the axle hanger without removing the bogies, which is next to impossible without destroying the rivet which is a special item. 

The Coach bogies are the same but what I use them for is coach lighting.  I binned the bodies 30 years ago and stockpiled the bogies. Using Lima wheelsets and the filed down Top Hat pinpoint bearings I solder a wire to an axle hanger and run it up through the bogie pivot to feed the LED lights on various plastic bodied coaches. With a bit of cosmetics and Plastic ( insulated) couplings you get a very free running coach with good power pick up. Mine have been running for up to 30 years, initially with filament lamps, latterly with rectifiers added with LEDs in each compartment, compartment walls, anti flicker capacitors  and directional tail lights  after dark they look the business rumbling down the garden.

Edited August 14, 2019 by DavidCBroad

[Fat Controller]

Am I correct in thinking that the elongated holes might have been a primitive form of compensation, in the same way that the coach bogies had a central pivot on the side?

 

[DCB]

1 minute ago, Fat Controller said:

Am I correct in thinking that the elongated holes might have been a primitive form of compensation, in the same way that the coach bogies had a central pivot on the side?

 

Sort of.  I think the idea of elongation was the axles rested on the chassis rather than in the retainer.  The round hole ones need careful alignment to make the wagons sit square on a level surface.   The later wagon castings are often on the skew with one wheel a MM or so in front of 'tother

[Il Grifone]

I believe the elongated holes were indeed at attempt at equalisation, but being outside the wheels it doesn't really work*. They first appeared on the LWB open van and double bolster, but later appeared on other vehicles and sometimes even mixed.

 

Some of the tags can't be accessed (Mineral wagons for example) and it is necessary to remove the couplings to release the body. Bogie wagons needs fiddling to release the wheel tags  and it's a problem to refit them. A spot of glue might be required to keep them secure.

 

Fretting out the webs of the brake gear improves the appearance considerably, but is an enormous hassle! Brake levers are not a bad idea either.

 

* I can't see any other point to them, unfortunately, when a wheel is unsupported, the weight of the vehicle then bears on the bearing on the other end of the axle and tends to lift it even further! Luckily the deep flanges keep the vehicle on the track.

 

Lima axles are 24.5mm long and  the wheel profile leaves something to be desired. They do run well on Dublo track however.

 

Dublo vehicles are notoriously not very free running. They should start on a 1 in 30 incline, but pin point bearings only require 1 in 100.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

Thanks for the info. Time to get the dremal out I think to file some wheels.

[The Johnster]

I'd be thinking about replacing them with Bachmann donors or Parkside kit chassis.  They are die cast mazak and much too crude for modern use IMHO.  David says he has over 200 of them, though; I can see why replacement might be a bit of an undertaking in that case!

[Il Grifone]

They're fine for Dublo 3 rail track, but not much else. The later underframe with open brake gear (later Wrenn) is at least as good as any of its competitors with solid backing to the brake lever. I did fret out a chlorine tank, but it really is a pain so I doubt any others will get the treatment!

[Il Grifone]

I did that with my A4 tender when I converted her to 2 rail (cheapskate!). It worked for quite a while. The proper nylon wheels were quite expensive IIRC.

[cypherman]

Hi all,

I tried the painting method mentioned many years ago. It did not work for very long. A couple of days at most.

[Il Grifone]

I used some gloss black paint (Humbrol?).  Its duration will depend on use, but I can't recommend the practice. With the right tools the wheels can be bored out and insulated, but the wheel profile is less than ideal. They could be turned to a better profile but is it worth the trouble? Nucro used  to do a Dublo standard wheel, but hen's teeth come to mind now.

[DCB]

The big advantage of the old H/D wagons is that they stay on the track. I routinely reverse rakes of 22 H/D wagons with Plastic H/D wheels and  H/D couplings  through 2ft radius reverse curves. If you try that with modern Hornby or Bachmann wagons the couplings almost always over ride and derail the wagons.   The individual wagon chassis don't look great but 20 of the things thundering past behind an 8F or being backed into a siding, or banked up a 1 in 30 by a big prairie is quite impressive. I have used Bachmann, Ratio, Hornby etc bodies on H/D chassis to get consistent running, even 2015 Hornby releases.  My various coaches with H/D bogies and Lima wheels, Mainline, and Hornby, mainly seldom derail compared to standard RTR.

If you want better appearance hack away the mazak blob between the axle boxes and fit some better brake gear from a kit.