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St. Simon

Collingwood - A Privatisation Era Southern Region Layout

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Hi,

 

I'm sorry to say I've made another big decision on Collingwood...

 

I've decided not to carry on the construction of Collingwood for a number of years,

 

The reasoning behind this decision is not the normal model railway construction problems of time, space or money, I have everything necessary to construction the layout. It reason is basically a logistical one which I came to realise over the weekend whilst exhibiting my fathers 'Loughborough Road' at its last exhibition at Warley (the reason for this is the same as the one I'm about to give).

 

Fundamentally it boils down to the fact that is has become increasingly difficult to get an operating crew together. Dad and I are part of a core operating crew of about half a dozen that operate our layouts and the layouts of Graham Muspratt, each of use also have additional crew which come out with certain layouts and it has become very difficult to get everyone available for any weekend and it is problematic getting people to replace that 'core' group of people. It is not that is difficult to find people willing to help, it isn't, it s difficult to find people who you are happy spending an entire weekend with. The fact is that, whilst I can design & build the layout to be operated by just two people, I can't rely on the operating crew I have at the moment to come out with the layout in 5 years time (my best guess at when the layout will be fully ready) and I don't have the network to build up a new operating crew.

 

The other logistical problem is actually whilst I can get the baseboards up the stairs into my flat, it is very awkward and not something I would like to do at the end of a long exhibition weekend.

 

These two, fairly minor problems I'll admit, coupled with a couple of other very minor things, mean I won't be continuing to construct the layout until such time I can overcome them.

 

I won't be building an interim layout, nor will I be retaining Norwood Road.

 

Simon

Edited by St. Simon
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Oh dear; I was looking forward to this being something with a real USP.

 

A more modest layout based around the USP?

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On ‎26‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 22:55, Nearholmer said:

Oh dear; I was looking forward to this being something with a real USP.

 

Hi,

 

Have no fear, the layout has had a reprieve!

 

I've been convinced by a couple of friends, not at least @Graham_Muz, to start building the layout anyway and we'll think about logistics later on. I actually decided this just after Christmas, but I hadn't updated the thread as there was relatively little to actually show as progress.

 

The main progress has been on the design side, I'm completed some of the wiring diagrams and analysis sheets I need before I start construction. I've also built and tested the MERG CBUS Modules I need for the Station Boards (one of the first two boards which will be constructed), the next thing with those is to get them programmed ready for installation, I hope to do that this weekend.

 

I've also made a couple of minor changes to the layout, the first being that I'm not going to use the CIS screen with the layout. The reality was that I was going to need 4 screens to show everything I wanted to, but that's far too expensive and I'd need more specialist computers than I afford. I've now going to use a Raspberry PI with 2 screens and replace the CIS Screen with some information boards on the layout as then I can list all the headcodes which will appear on the layout rather than just the 'regular' ones.

 

The second change is that I'm not going to use a Ground Frame to control the yard, instead I'm going to have a Ground Switch Panel. I realised that the Ground Frame was getting expensive and I couldn't rely on getting a Modratec one with the recent statement about the business getting more difficult to run. As I needed a small panel to operate the uncouplers and TRTS Plunger and the fact that I have a spare panel chassis, I just decided to convert to a full GSP:

 

GSP.JPG.337a62733a47bbcc6f83335aa03fe859.JPG

 

Above is the design for the Panel, I'm going to start building it this week and should have it broadly finished during next week.

 

Just for information, I've also updated the scheme plan to show the latest changes:

 

Scheme Plan v2.pdf

 

On the rolling stock front, I'm now very close to getting all the stock I need for the layout, I acquired both a GWR Bachmann Class 158 and a SWT Bachmann Class 450 (a Weathered One) over the Christmas Period. I also swapped my small Depot layout for a rake of Oil Tankers with a Friend and the Network Rail Test Train also came late last year. That only leaves my Voyager to convert to DCC and Revolution to open the order books for their 'OO' Gauge IPA Car Carriers to complete the core fleet.

 

I'm also being tempted by a short rake of the Dapol Silver Bullet Wagons, I already have one (a gift from the Wycombe Club for doing some 3D Printing), but the latest weathered batch look really good. However, they didn't run through Fareham, so can anyone think of a reason for them being there?

 

Simon

Edited by St. Simon
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Hi Simon,

Still not sure I understand a lot of the signalling technicalities (if only someone did a book on it for modellers!), but do hope you get the chance to build this - it has great potential. The last couple of times I've had Oxford Road out at shows I've operated it on my own. It is do-able without help, but it can get a bit boring - especially if the show is a bit quiet. Another downside of not having a team. 

Rich

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Glad that you've decided to resurrect this.

 

Keep at it!

 

PS: I've never seen a GSP before. what is device L1? Some kind of shunting instruction board for the train driver to observe? Where is it represented on the mimic?

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On 18/02/2020 at 14:18, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

Have no fear, the layout has had a reprieve!

 

I've been convinced by a couple of friends, not at least @Graham_Muz, to start building the layout anyway and we'll think about logistics later on. I actually decided this just after Christmas, but I hadn't updated the thread as there was relatively little to actually show as progress.

 

The main progress has been on the design side, I'm completed some of the wiring diagrams and analysis sheets I need before I start construction. I've also built and tested the MERG CBUS Modules I need for the Station Boards (one of the first two boards which will be constructed), the next thing with those is to get them programmed ready for installation, I hope to do that this weekend.

 

I've also made a couple of minor changes to the layout, the first being that I'm not going to use the CIS screen with the layout. The reality was that I was going to need 4 screens to show everything I wanted to, but that's far too expensive and I'd need more specialist computers than I afford. I've now going to use a Raspberry PI with 2 screens and replace the CIS Screen with some information boards on the layout as then I can list all the headcodes which will appear on the layout rather than just the 'regular' ones.

 

The second change is that I'm not going to use a Ground Frame to control the yard, instead I'm going to have a Ground Switch Panel. I realised that the Ground Frame was getting expensive and I couldn't rely on getting a Modratec one with the recent statement about the business getting more difficult to run. As I needed a small panel to operate the uncouplers and TRTS Plunger and the fact that I have a spare panel chassis, I just decided to convert to a full GSP:

 

GSP.JPG.337a62733a47bbcc6f83335aa03fe859.JPG

 

Above is the design for the Panel, I'm going to start building it this week and should have it broadly finished during next week.

 

Just for information, I've also updated the scheme plan to show the latest changes:

 

Scheme Plan v2.pdf 79.83 kB · 16 downloads

 

On the rolling stock front, I'm now very close to getting all the stock I need for the layout, I acquired both a GWR Bachmann Class 158 and a SWT Bachmann Class 450 (a Weathered One) over the Christmas Period. I also swapped my small Depot layout for a rake of Oil Tankers with a Friend and the Network Rail Test Train also came late last year. That only leaves my Voyager to convert to DCC and Revolution to open the order books for their 'OO' Gauge IPA Car Carriers to complete the core fleet.

 

I'm also being tempted by a short rake of the Dapol Silver Bullet Wagons, I already have one (a gift from the Wycombe Club for doing some 3D Printing), but the latest weathered batch look really good. However, they didn't run through Fareham, so can anyone think of a reason for them being there?

 

Simon

Yes, quidhampton ( Salisbury ) to Willesden slurry tanks ( used to lay over in EH ), diverted via fareham for some operational reason , Ran like this 95-97 ish 

 

 

 

 

B42C9998-BDC8-458E-AEFB-53F3344922AC.png

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On ‎29‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 22:41, Rich Papper said:

Hi Simon,

Still not sure I understand a lot of the signalling technicalities (if only someone did a book on it for modellers!), but do hope you get the chance to build this - it has great potential. The last couple of times I've had Oxford Road out at shows I've operated it on my own. It is do-able without help, but it can get a bit boring - especially if the show is a bit quiet. Another downside of not having a team. 

Rich

 

Hi Rich,

 

Thanks for the encouragement, it is nice to know that people are interested in the project, hopefully baseboards will start to be order this week or next (I'm pretty sure I've had over predictions like this that haven't come true!). I hadn't thought of the bored angle before with operators, but it is completely true. I have operated both my previous layout and Norwood Road with the bare minimum of operators and it is very tiring.

 

On ‎29‎/‎02‎/‎2020 at 23:17, Nearholmer said:

PS: I've never seen a GSP before. what is device L1? Some kind of shunting instruction board for the train driver to observe? Where is it represented on the mimic?

 

GSPs tend not to be visible to the average passenger as they are often located either in a Shunters cabin or in a Location Case, so aren't obvious.

 

'L1' is actually 'LI', it stands for Loading Indicators I just couldn't fit the whole phrase on the panel. As I have a rake of Dapol HIAs which have bottom unloading doors, I'm planning to have a discharge pit on the Down Siding (which I need to get drawn up to 3D Print actually). As part of the unloading equipment sometimes there are loading indicators which show white lights in various combinations to convey the instructions on the switch, with STOP being 3 red lights horizontally. I haven't shown them on the mimic yet as I'm not sure whether they would be and at this point in time you can't get models of them yet. The switch and the wiring will be installed, but it might be a while before I actually get models of them.

 

 

22 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Yes, quidhampton ( Salisbury ) to Willesden slurry tanks ( used to lay over in EH ), diverted via fareham for some operational reason , Ran like this 95-97 ish 

 

 

B42C9998-BDC8-458E-AEFB-53F3344922AC.png

 

Perfect, thank you!!! It's the perfect small rake as well, I'll shall order some next week!

 

Simon

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21 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

As part of the unloading equipment sometimes there are loading indicators which show white lights in various combinations to convey the instructions on the switch, with STOP being 3 red lights horizontally

 

A very long time ago, in pre-widespread-radio days, I devised and implemented such a system for use with Engineers' Trains, where we had no end of trouble controlling train movements during unloading, because drivers struggled to see a bardic lamp held by a guy at the line-side through everything else that was going on. It worked, and drivers had no trouble understanding it, but it didn't get widely used, because rigging-up the wired system to the train and loco for each job was a PITA.

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7 hours ago, St. Simon said:

'L1' is actually 'LI', it stands for Loading Indicators I just couldn't fit the whole phrase on the panel. As I have a rake of Dapol HIAs which have bottom unloading doors, I'm planning to have a discharge pit on the Down Siding (which I need to get drawn up to 3D Print actually). As part of the unloading equipment sometimes there are loading indicators which show white lights in various combinations to convey the instructions on the switch, with STOP being 3 red lights horizontally. I haven't shown them on the mimic yet as I'm not sure whether they would be and at this point in time you can't get models of them yet. The switch and the wiring will be installed, but it might be a while before I actually get models of them.

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Do you mean to say you're going to put Totems on your layout? 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/red_oktober/5755530371/

 

To be honest, they're not really of any use for a stone loading.  Stone loading/unloading tends to be a stop/start affair, wagon by wagon.

There's a set of them in Dawley loop, Z1, 2 & 3,  associated with Hansons facility, but don't even think they're serviceable anymore.

 

Much easier, & nicer, to use a radio these days - you don't have to keep staring at a set of lights wondering if they'll change!

 

Paul

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34 minutes ago, bigP said:

Hi,

 

Do you mean to say you're going to put Totems on your layout? 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/red_oktober/5755530371/

 

To be honest, they're not really of any use for a stone loading.  Stone loading/unloading tends to be a stop/start affair, wagon by wagon.

There's a set of them in Dawley loop, Z1, 2 & 3,  associated with Hansons facility, but don't even think they're serviceable anymore.

 

Much easier, & nicer, to use a radio these days - you don't have to keep staring at a set of lights wondering if they'll change!

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

Yes, I mean Toton Signals.

 

I have thought they are a bit overkill for the layout, but i think they would add something to the aesthetics of the layout and the operation. I've added the switch to future proof the GSP in case I do add them in the future.

 

As far as we are aware, the set at Dawley are useable, but they do look quite old, so you're probably right.

 

Simon

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Hi,

 

Sorry for the long delay in any sort of update, but being in lock-down has slowed development some what, but i do have a couple of updates for you!

 

First is that the first two baseboards, for the station and junction, were order at the beginning of March from Tim Horn. The lead time was 10 weeks, so I am expecting these to arrive sometime next week, although I don't know if Tim has been working through the lock-down.

 

In terms of other development there has been very little, the most significant is completing the work on the Automatic Route Setting on the signalling side. Remember you can learn more about the details of the interlocking and panel in the thread below:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/147816-collingwood-iecc-creating-a-prototypical-iecc-for-a-model-railway/

 

The only bit of modelling that I've done is to complete the buildings for Collingwood IECC:

 

767473521_CollingwodIECC1.jpg.48f1af3e21e17c185ca0acbcd468868a.jpg

 

This has changed a bit from the original plan of bashing three PECO signal boxes together, I found that it was simply too big and I hadn't actually built it very well, so I decided to change it.

 

The base kit is actually a Busch 'HO' Scale kit that was for a Farm Garage. I chose it because it was the most like a more modern UK control centre that I could find. It is actually slight too small for a complete control centre, as I couldn't fit in the Interlockings beneath the operating floor, so I've made a separate building to house them next to it. As this is very unusual for a normal control centre, I've changed the layouts narrative a little. Now, Collingwood IECC is a temporary control centre as part of some imaginary stage works of a re-signalling project in the area, this helps explain the separate interlocking building, but actually it seems to fit the main building a little better (to me, the kit seems to look a bit like some form of temporary building).

 

336369787_CollingwodIECC2.jpg.089a4216283475b4d7f10f8f7b882f78.jpg

 

This shows the interior, I still have the fourth wall to put in, but this will have a large hole in it to view the interior. The top left section is the control centre office where the Signalling Shift Managers sit and where (rather small) meetings are held, whilst the main area on the right is the operating floor where the workstations are situated. In theory, the area below the office is the breakout area and lockers (but I haven't modelled this interior).

 

All the interior furniture is from Faller, whilst the Signalling Workstations are 3D Printed from Shapeways. I didn't bother putting what is on the signallers screens as it would be so small it wouldn't be readable, and actually the blank screens look better in my opinion.  

 

75196773_CollingwodIECC3.jpg.7e62570a9dc7842a1e241c5a37cc7cb3.jpg

 

The interlocking building is the third attempt at making it, this one is made from a PECO kit for an REB, but I have taken the 2nd side, cut it in half and made the whole building wider. This will have a roof (with lighting), but I won't be adding the missing side.

 

Again, the furniture is from Faller, whilst the Interlockings are 3D Printed to my own CAD. For those that are interested, the blue cabinets at the back are Siemens' Westlock Interlockings, the Grey cabinets on the left are Alstom Smartlocks and the black ones on the right are Resonate IECC Cabinets.

 

When I install the buildings I will put in some cable troughing between the two to show they are connected.

 

The only things I have to do to finish these buildings is add the interior lighting and find a second stair case for the main building (the kit only came with one and I had to use that on the inside). The next couple of buildings to work on are the Station Buildings, I hope to start on these in the next couple of weeks.

 

I'll be posting layout on about the trains that'll be on the layout to go with a post on the Collingwood IECC thread, and then there will (hopefully!) more work on the layout.

 

Simon

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Posted (edited)

Hi,

 

This post is posted to coincide with a post over on my Collingwood IECC thread about the Automatic Route Setting system I have for Collingwood. This post will describe the formations and trains that will be seen on the layout.

 

The story behind the layout is that the line between Southampton & Eastleigh through Southampton Airport Parkway is shut for engineering works, meaning that some services are diverted via Collingwood, making it a greater mixture of trains.

 

All of the services will be shown on info boards (made to look like departure screens at Stations) on the layout mounted next to the screen showing the signalling panel so that the audience can relate the headcodes on the panel to the trains on the board.

 

I have gone for fixed headcodes for each service rather than changing them every time a train appears on the layout, simply because it is quite difficult to programme JMRI to incrementally increase the headcode number, so keeping it fixed makes it much simpler but keeps the same atmosphere and interest.

 

Passenger Services

 

Passenger services on Collingwood are provided by three operators, First Great Western (or Great Western Railway), Southern and South West Trains (or South Western Railway).

 

1Fxx.jpg.197e620d3c2de8f81de0035df3ce45d1.jpg

 

 

First Great Western / Great Western Railway run a half hourly service between Cardiff and Portsmouth, in my time period it was normally a 3-Car Class 158, but can also be a couple of Class 150s, but nowadays a Class 166 is used. As you can’t get a 3-Car Class 158, I’m planning to use a Bachmann 2-Car 158  as well as a 2-Car Class 150 coupled to a Class 153 (although technically Class 153s are not gauge cleared through Fareham).

 

These services tend to go via Botley & Hedge End, but can also go via Southampton, but I’m keeping to former route.

 

1Jxx.jpg.95bcf93c9774b5d8e94779599afac078.jpg

 

 

Southern run two services through Fareham, the first is between Southampton and London Victoria via Chichester & Three Bridges. This route is exclusively formed by Electrostars, however you can’t get these in model form yet, so I’m resorting to my standard excuse that Southern have a heritage 4-CEP & 4-VEP which are standing in for a failed Electrostar.

 

I’m also going to use my two Thumpers for an Electrostar stand in, I’m not sure that they were suitable, but it is the only service that I can think to use them on.

 

1Nxx.jpg.16b181db3f290f967fe6dff4c436cd67.jpg

 

 

The second service that Southern run is a Brighton to Southampton service along the West Coast Way. Again, these are the preserve of Electrostars, so I’m using the heritage fleet excuse for this service too.

 

There has been a couple of occasions whereby Southern Class 313 have been used on these services, and I have a 3D Printed kit which I will make into a Southern Unit (and hopefully get a second one in the future).

 

XC.jpg.daaf2a1d24c15b5971931f1094403c01.jpg

 

 

Cross Country services are very rarely seen around Fareham, mostly on diversions. With my story that their normal route through Southampton Airport Parkway is closed, then the Cross Country services are diverted via Fareham and turned back in the Bay Platform.

 

There are several XC services in that neck of the woods, but I have settled on the two above just for interest.

 

 

SWT.jpg.5179467a1d2afef9a36c590bd2c093ca.jpg

 

South West Trains / South Western Railway provide the bulk of the services through Fareham, with half hourly semi-fast trains between London Waterloo & Portsmouth Harbour which travel via Basingstoke and the half hourly local between Portsmouth & Southampton.

 

I have also added diverted workings between Waterloo and Weymouth via the Portsmouth Direct Line through Guildford just to add to traffic. Both these and the other London Workings tend to be Class 444’s, but do see Class 450’s quite often as well, so I’m using my Class 450’s to cover these workings as well as their normal local Southampton services.

 

Empty Coaching Stock services

 

There are three ECS workings I’ve got on Collingwood:

 

 

5Dxx.jpg.e68a1bcf5618e0976fe001edf4819fcc.jpg

 

I have an old Bachmann Class 158 in Regional Railways livery which I plan to re-vinyl in SWT colours (hence no image) and this will be running a Salisbury Depot to Fratton & back working. I have no idea whether this is a real working, but it is the closest I can think of!

 

5Z01.jpg.ba91494178ba43e19c5ea55395decab6.jpg

 

 

Using my London Midland Class 350 is always tricky on a Southern Region layout, and although Southern did hire 10 of them a few years ago, they never made it down to the South Coast.

 

Instead, I remembered that Class 350s have visited the Siemens Train Care Depot at Northam near Southampton for tyre-turning from their Northampton home. There were actually hauled by Class 67s, but I’m imagining that they have come down under their own power (since they have third rail shoes)

 

5X99.jpg.486bc4cf621010a7af1ef1e811a7dd67.jpg

 

 

Okay, I’m getting really tenuous with real life with a Class 800!

 

The only reason I have one is that it is the BRM review model. As you may know I have worked extensively on the Power Change-Over installations for Class 800’s on the Western Region (in fact I think I was the first ordinary guest to take a cab-ride in a GWR 800) , so I have quite personal connection to them and did BRMs review for the model.

 

Originally I was never going to run it on Collingwood, but that was until Class 800’s started being stored at Eastleigh. It is not totally inconceivable (apart from that they are not gauge cleared) that they carry out test runs between Eastleigh and Fareham, after all the Botley line is quite straight and a nice short run!

 

Freight Services

 

Most days, freight through Fareham is not all that common, but isn’t rare. Almost all the services that I have modelled I have evidence that have run through Fareham at some point since privatisation.

 

Military.jpg.c15e9b6c3d295d895713c2ddb187cd2b.jpg

 

This is probably the only freight that I know probably hasn't run through Fareham, however, I have a rake of Hattons Warwells with Schimitar Loads, so I've found an excuse to run them. The MoD site at Marchwood near Southampton has seen tanks and other Military vehicles delivered by train, so it is plausible that a service could be diverted around via Fareham. I also thought that the majority of Military Trains consist of KFAs loaded with 20ft containers, so I've also got a 2nd consist so that the tanks aren't always appearing on the layout.

 

Engineering.jpg.25cd3b384de6c95bbb18cf42aea95e42.jpg

 

 

The most common freight workings through Fareham are engineering trains between Eastleigh and Tonbridge.

 

I have modelled three trains, two Ballast Workings (one for modern trains and one for a slightly earlier time period) and a general working, which include a pair of Balfour Beatty YOB Cranes from Hattons once they are released.

 

 

Cars.jpg.ddd478365f45cd813d2916e40d9ac5f2.jpg

 

One of the main workings on the SWML is the Car Trains between the Midlands & Southampton and these are quite often diverted by Fareham and Guildford.

 

Normally these trains are 30 to 40 wagon trains, but I only have space for 8 wagons, so that is the limit of my train. I’m just waiting for Revolution Trains to open their IPA order book to finish this train.

 

Slurry.jpg.a218f2a0b57a8be16c0b5d0cc9680181.jpg

 

 

Whilst not an obvious freight flow on the South Coast (in fact it wasn’t until point out that it was a working earlier on the thread), there was a short clay slurry train that ran between Quidhampton near Salisbury and Willesden Yard in the 1980’s and 1990’s.

 

I already had a pristine Dapol ‘Silver Bullet’ wagon in my fleet (it was a gift for doing some 3D Printing for the High Wycombe & District Model Railway Society), and when I saw the new weathered batch of ‘Silver Bullets’, I looked for a suitable train to use them in.

 

Oil.jpg.eefd7d5c373b6658af97acb90ee4ee8e.jpg

 

 

The other main freight working that has been seen through Fareham, before closure of the Fawley Oil Terminal near Southampton, was the oil tanker working between Fawley and Holyborne. Like the Car Trains, these were normally 20 or so wagons long, but I have only room for six of them.

 

Stone.jpg.412227867670488219d75541dab9b5c6.jpg

 

Obviously, as Collingwood has a stone terminal, there must be stone trains. Fareham sees most of it's aggregate traffic come from the Mendips via Acton which are traditionally EWS / DB Cargo workings, however, with JNAs from Kernow or the PTA Tipplers being simply too expensive to form the rake of the size I want, I have only got a GBRF and Freightliner rake instead. Also, as the head shunt on Collingwood is only large enough for a shunter and two wagons, I can't really use the type of wagons which come in fixed rakes (well, not without having pairs of 'outer' wagons making up the train), so the Dapol MJA and HIA wagons suit the operation of the layout more. However, I am looking at getting a Class 59 (as I had my first Cab-Ride in one) and a rake of suitable wagons in the future, if the correct type are made at the right price.

 

Charters / Post / Inspection Trains

 

 

Charter.jpg.102f4f6ca3b2015177d14f8f246bbf99.jpg

 

There have been a number of charters through Fareham, but I have modelled a rake of MK1 Pullmans to be hauled by my Battle of Britain (once I have figured out how to house the sound decoder!) or my A4.

 

I also have a 4-TC in Charter Blue colours that I run with my Class 71 or Sarah Siddons as a Charter rake as well.

 

 

Post.jpg.72ccb380dee53ad9b556b0f20c654b3d.jpg

 

I also have a parcels rake, I don’t think there was actually a postal working between Southampton and Brighton, but it seemed like there should be!

 

Survey.jpg.c3b924db35c54b1123aea7a30699ea7b.jpg

 

 

As I work through Network Rail, it is only appropriate that I have one of their survey trains, so I have a short Mk2 rake top and tailed by Class 73’s working a circular Eastleigh to Eastleigh working.

 

For the earlier time period I’m going to run my EWS inspection saloon with one of my 33’s. I also have a Railtrack Bubble Car that will run on a survey working under a 1Q5x headcode.

 

Simon

 

 

Edited by St. Simon
Forgot to add some trains!
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Could you not use the thumpers on a charter service? They were quite popular at one time, not sure if it was your time period though.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Could you not use the thumpers on a charter service? They were quite popular at one time, not sure if it was your time period though.

 

 

 

Hi,

 

I hadn't thought of that, but I don't want too many 'special' trains (to be honest I think I'm push it a little at the moment), as I want to model the day-to-day world of privatisation. Most 'Modern Image' layouts all seem to be set on the day when all the 'special' trains with the celebrity locos at the head are running around, and I want to try to get away from that.

 

BTW, I've updated the trains post as I missed out my Military and Aggregate Trains!

 

Simon

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You need two timetables one for a weekday and for the weekend, normal passenger and freight trips for the weekdays and weekdays and little or no freight, engineering trains excepted and the charter trains instead.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

You need two timetables one for a weekday and for the weekend, normal passenger and freight trips for the weekdays and weekdays and little or no freight, engineering trains excepted and the charter trains instead.

 

 


Now there’s an idea, I’ll have a think!

 

Simon

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6 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

I hadn't thought of that, but I don't want too many 'special' trains (to be honest I think I'm push it a little at the moment), as I want to model the day-to-day world of privatisation. Most 'Modern Image' layouts all seem to be set on the day when all the 'special' trains with the celebrity locos at the head are running around, and I want to try to get away from that.

 

BTW, I've updated the trains post as I missed out my Military and Aggregate Trains!

 

Simon

 

Hi Simon,

Following your progress along in the background.  One thing to point out, and its not a criticism, just picking up - you've said you want to model the day-to-day world of privatisation - but the 47 you've specified for the post - 47404 Hadrian - had long gone before privatisation.  May not matter to you, but just to mention it!  Shame, always had a soft spot for the Generators!

 

Rich

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14 hours ago, MarshLane said:

 

Hi Simon,

Following your progress along in the background.  One thing to point out, and its not a criticism, just picking up - you've said you want to model the day-to-day world of privatisation - but the 47 you've specified for the post - 47404 Hadrian - had long gone before privatisation.  May not matter to you, but just to mention it!  Shame, always had a soft spot for the Generators!

 

Rich

 

Hi Rich,

 

You are absolutely right on that point, I've only chosen that one as a friend was selling it cheap with DCC sound, I thought a neutral BR Blue would allow me to run it on several rakes without being too obvious, and I thought a 47 is a good, jack of all trades loco to have as a spare! I might re-number it, or even get a different bodyshell in time to make it more in keep with the 'every day' scenario. I know that I'm pushing it with a BR Blue 47, Green 4-CEPs and NSE 4-VEPs, but until someone does an electrostar (or makes one for me), I have to work with what I have :) 

 

When I say that I want to model the day to day world, I don't necessarily mean down to specific locos, I mean just to get a sense of the day to day world. Meaning that the unusual rakes (parcels, military, charter, inspecions or the IEP) won't be every other train. Most of the activity will be the SWT, GWR and Southern Units (and if I get a second 313, I'll try and stick to mostly 313's until electrostars come along) going back and forth as they make up the majority of the real trains, that'll be interspersed with the freight services (expect the military trains), and then the other rakes will appear rarely.

 

I'm thinking of how to make sure that happens with my operators, as I don't want to rely on them getting it right (they generally run what looks nice, not necessarily what is right!), but I don't want to force them into a rigid sequence. I've asked my operators what they would prefer and I'll come back with my thoughts on the subject.

 

Simon

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58 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi Rich,

 

You are absolutely right on that point, I've only chosen that one as a friend was selling it cheap with DCC sound, I thought a neutral BR Blue would allow me to run it on several rakes without being too obvious, and I thought a 47 is a good, jack of all trades loco to have as a spare! I might re-number it, or even get a different bodyshell in time to make it more in keep with the 'every day' scenario. I know that I'm pushing it with a BR Blue 47, Green 4-CEPs and NSE 4-VEPs, but until someone does an electrostar (or makes one for me), I have to work with what I have :) 

 

When I say that I want to model the day to day world, I don't necessarily mean down to specific locos, I mean just to get a sense of the day to day world. Meaning that the unusual rakes (parcels, military, charter, inspecions or the IEP) won't be every other train. Most of the activity will be the SWT, GWR and Southern Units (and if I get a second 313, I'll try and stick to mostly 313's until electrostars come along) going back and forth as they make up the majority of the real trains, that'll be interspersed with the freight services (expect the military trains), and then the other rakes will appear rarely.

 

I'm thinking of how to make sure that happens with my operators, as I don't want to rely on them getting it right (they generally run what looks nice, not necessarily what is right!), but I don't want to force them into a rigid sequence. I've asked my operators what they would prefer and I'll come back with my thoughts on the subject.

 

Simon

 

Hi Simon,

Interesting thoughts. At the end of the day Rule 1 always applies, so nobody can tell you, you cannot.  Plus its a Generator, so why would anyone want to get rid of them!! (Sorry, do have a soft spot for 47401-47420)

 

Have you thought about using a computer based system to operate the timetabled departures from the hidden sidings?  Can be manually controlled through the signalled area, and back into the fiddle yard, but with the computer setting up the route, and displaying the DCC Id on a screen or display somewhere, when the train is ready to depart.  That way, the operator, just keys in the DCC id to the controller and departs the train.  It makes sure things run as per, and gives you the ability for the computer to introduce delays into the timetable (especially for freight and charters) to make things more challenging for the operators?

 

Just a thought.

 

Rich

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47 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

Have you thought about using a computer based system to operate the timetabled departures from the hidden sidings?  Can be manually controlled through the signalled area, and back into the fiddle yard, but with the computer setting up the route, and displaying the DCC Id on a screen or display somewhere, when the train is ready to depart.  That way, the operator, just keys in the DCC id to the controller and departs the train.  It makes sure things run as per, and gives you the ability for the computer to introduce delays into the timetable (especially for freight and charters) to make things more challenging for the operators?

 

Just a thought.

 

Rich

 

Hmmm, I do really like that thought, and I've thought about it quite a lot.

 

I have found that have a 'proper' fiddle yard isn't as user friendly unless you have a large roundy roundy and you have fewer trains than fiddle yard roads and for an end to end layout, they will have up a lot of space. Therefore, the fiddle yards on Collingwood will be Cassettes, mainly as that's all that will work at the Southampton / Eastleigh end as they have to independent. However, that doesn't stop me having something that tells the operators which train to set up and take next.

 

I think a sequence or timetable is a very good way of ensuring everything is prototypically run (and that you get the correct mixture of stock, so you don't a 68 passing a thumper) and you don't tie yourself in knots. However, having operated Dad's layout with a sequence, which works very well, the key thing is to have a 'get out clause', something where you can just throw into the sequence temporarily whilst you sort out problems. You also get the problem of two people wanting the same train at different place at the same time, or one movement has to take place before another, which ends up with the whole layout at a standstill whilst everyone catches up.

 

So I am thinking of having two operating modes, one where you just the next thing you want and one where it is to a proper timetable, and the choice between the two is down to the type of exhibition (a local family show would prefer just any train in any order, where as Warley or GETS might demand the full timetable) or time of day (ie. at lunch you just run anything as you reduce number of operators).

 

The other thing I'm looking at is that as part of the signalling, I have the ability to simulate signalling faults. Whilst this was originally intended as a training tool for the office, it might be interesting to add it as an operational thing on the layout. So, maybe the audience gets to push a button which introduces a 'fault' (lamp failure, points failure, track circuit etc.) onto the layout and we would have to operate accordingly. As you suggest, you could add in freight and charter delays into that, and I think this would add a bit of fun on both sides of the layout, but operating to a sequence might make this tricky to do.

 

I've asked my operators for opinions on it to see what they think, but I would be interest in opinions from punters as well as what they would prefer the layout to do.

 

Simon

 

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Hi,

 

Right, a more exciting update this time, with pictures!

 

The first two baseboards (for the station & for the junction) for Collingwood arrived last Friday and I built / painted them over the Bank Holiday weekend:

 

IMG_0014.JPG.0816d0486f1663c6b32024b7316112af.JPG

 

IMG_0015.JPG.d43fd00488b9161c72fa76638e4bc2b0.JPG

 

I've placed my 1:1 CAD print out of the track plan on top (I plan that this will be stuck on the underside for the finished layout) and the three finished buildings have been placed in their approximate position to give a sense of where they will sit. The Voyager is sat in the Bay Platform and is just being just to check platform lengths.

 

The next step is track laying, but that'll have to wait for another few weeks whilst PECO stock levels come back up. In the mean time I've order the rest of the MERG modules so I'm going to start building those and them mounted / wire them on the boards before the track arrives.

 

I've decided to make a couple of tweaks to the signalling now I've seen where the Footbridge will sit, looking it there will be a couple of signal sighting issues so I've decided to add some OFF indicators for the Bay Platform and Platform 3 (to the right of the Voyager above) and a Banner Repeater for CD813 (beyond me in the photo) just beyond the Footbridge in the Photograph.

 

Simon

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Hi,

 

I came across this thread randomly and I really like the interiors for the buildings. As an N gauge modeller I’ve not seen anything quite like that elsewhere on rmweb.

 

A couple of thoughts/suggestions on your planned traffic which I hope you will find constructive and helpful.

 

SWT ran peak extras to Portsmouth from Basingstoke (and possibly Totton/Southampton) with 158s and 3 car 159s so there is definitely an excuse for this.

 

FGW 158s are mainly hybrid 3 cars with a 3rd cab boxed in making it easy to model a 3 car as is typical on the Portsmouth and Brighton flows. You are correct to note 150s and 153s operate only as far as Southampton. All these services are booked via Southampton and Swanwick with Botley used only for diversions.

 

If you want to be prototypical concentrate on aggregates. Chichester also has regular flows from the Mendips that pass through Fareham and with a bit of modellers licence you could have services to Botley and Eastleigh diverted via “Collingwood”, perhaps to run round. Both these terminals can accept bottom discharge wagons like your HIAs whereas Fareham and Chichester traffic is unloaded by grab. If Collingwood is going to accept HIAs I would model a small discharge hopper.

 

I think the Holybourne tank train was quite short in recent years so that will be spot on. If you want another narrative in 2007 Portsmouth Dock refurbished a siding near Fratton Depot for potential intermodal traffic which never materialised. Another option...

 

I hope this helps.

 

Tim.

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Hi again - sorry didn't have chance to dig these out last night. Two shots of the Holybourne tanks with load 10 x TEAs so not too long for a tank train. I've got a few examples of Marchwood consists too. If you're interested let me know and I'll post them.

 

Tim.

 

66167_with_6Y32_Fawley_to_Holybourne_at_Southampton_140813.JPG.4ac3182e865c116c9ee78b607797250b.JPG66129_passes_Millbrook_with_the_sun_firmly_behind_a_cloud._6Y32_Fawley_to_Holybourne_030413.JPG.2db7517d9a8eb81d7f768446d80de6fe.JPG

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22 hours ago, Timmy84 said:

Hi,

 

I came across this thread randomly and I really like the interiors for the buildings. As an N gauge modeller I’ve not seen anything quite like that elsewhere on rmweb.

 

Hi Tim,

 

Thanks for the comments, I'm glad you like the interiors, although they are some far more detailed interiors on other layouts on here.

 

22 hours ago, Timmy84 said:

SWT ran peak extras to Portsmouth from Basingstoke (and possibly Totton/Southampton) with 158s and 3 car 159s so there is definitely an excuse for this.

 

For my SWT Class 158, I've changed it to be a Winchester to Collingwood Shuttle service. I know there is a Winchester to Portsmouth service early in the morning that uses 158s, so it is plausible and is how I imagine that a service might operate. So now the departure boards look like this:

 

CIS_Boards.JPG.6c914fad3d0d37a06e39dba38eb36e23.JPG

 

22 hours ago, Timmy84 said:

FGW 158s are mainly hybrid 3 cars with a 3rd cab boxed in making it easy to model a 3 car as is typical on the Portsmouth and Brighton flows. You are correct to note 150s and 153s operate only as far as Southampton. All these services are booked via Southampton and Swanwick with Botley used only for diversions.

 

I do have a photo which I took at Fareham showing a Class 150/1 at Fareham, so I know they get further than Southampton, but the Class 153's are not gauge clear through Fareham. There is one booked via Botley, but I decided to put them all via Botley simply to provide a bit of variety, as otherwise the vast majority of stuff on the layout runs between Portsmouth and Southampton, which might be a bit boring!

 

22 hours ago, Timmy84 said:

If you want to be prototypical concentrate on aggregates. Chichester also has regular flows from the Mendips that pass through Fareham and with a bit of modellers licence you could have services to Botley and Eastleigh diverted via “Collingwood”, perhaps to run round. Both these terminals can accept bottom discharge wagons like your HIAs whereas Fareham and Chichester traffic is unloaded by grab. If Collingwood is going to accept HIAs I would model a small discharge hopper.

 

I might modelled the Chichester flows in the future, I'm thinking about getting a rake of HOAs when they arrive from Revolution, but that'll depend on the price. Unfortunately I could only model the Botley runs in one direction (towards Botley) as I haven't got a signalled route from Platform 3 towards Southampton, so all stone trains towards the Mendips (unless they have come from Chicester) have to run via Botley,

 

My Plan for the aggregate terminal is to have a Grab unloading Platform for my MJA's on the Reception Line, and add a Bottom Unloading Hopper on the Down Siding to house the HIA's.

 

22 hours ago, Timmy84 said:

If you want another narrative in 2007 Portsmouth Dock refurbished a siding near Fratton Depot for potential intermodal traffic which never materialised. Another option...

 

A couple of people has suggested that, but I kind of want to avoid bending history too much by imagining that various lines and yards had remained open (or in the case of Fratton, pretending it flourished into a major yard). Although I know that I may have done that a bit much already!

 

9 hours ago, Timmy84 said:

Hi again - sorry didn't have chance to dig these out last night. Two shots of the Holybourne tanks with load 10 x TEAs so not too long for a tank train. I've got a few examples of Marchwood consists too. If you're interested let me know and I'll post them.

 

Tim.

 

Thanks for those, if you do have some Marchwood consists, then that would be great, I haven't seen too many pictures of them!

 

Simon 

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A few snaps of the Marchwood trains. Containers form the majority of the traffic and as you can see any length of train is prototypical! Containers tend to be 20ft and are distinctive in comparison to deep sea traffic you would normally see on intermodals.

 

66066_passes_Maritime_with_6V38_Marchwood_to_Didcot_MoD_240713_(3).JPG.cae964d7678ad8a1a3b13ee6e9366a66.JPG66068_heads_a_light_6V38_Marchwood_to_Didcot_towards_Southampton_Central_301012_(4).JPG.3b60190d5874aa8dceb95be87c9a5ca2.JPG

 

Military vehicles/VGAs are also relatively common and can be seen at the back of this rake. I have a shot of a consist of 1 x warwell on it's own but can't upload on this post due to 10b limit.

 

66075_at_St_James'_Lane_on_6X38_Marchwood_to_Didcot_MOD_train_060809.JPG.44c094ce367d102f639cce430994827f.JPG

 

I have no idea what the story behind this load is - I've never seen anything like it before or since. Answers on a postcard!

 

1958767938_66204heads6V38fromMarchwoodtoDidcotpastMillbrookRec140611(2)-Copy.JPG.1ae5accf9260f8769f9ca0d72fc79e3d.JPG

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