Some thoughts about the railway

[ajwffc]

it was the staff / generator coach for the Queen of Scots luxury train now owned by WCRC

[RRU]

3 hours ago, ajwffc said:

it was the staff / generator coach for the Queen of Scots luxury train now owned by WCRC

But why was it in the Scarborough Spa Express. It was not carrying any passengers. Were they taking it for an outing?

 

I couldn`t understand what they meant by saying it was needed to help with the brakes.

 

Peter

[The Johnster]

It's being used as a staff/generator coach, as the stock is electrically, not steam heated, and the loco crew and support crew need accommodation and a place to keep tools and spares.  I suspect your fireman meant breaks, not brakes

[RRU]

38 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

It's being used as a staff/generator coach, as the stock is electrically, not steam heated, and the loco crew and support crew need accommodation and a place to keep tools and spares.  I suspect your fireman meant breaks, not brakes

 

 

Thank you for your answer. These are all valid reasons and are possible. But I would just like to make these points.

 

1) This was the only run it was on.

2) It is the height of summer so no heating needed.

3) The loco had its own support coach attached for use by the support crew.

4) The kitchen car has its own generator for powering the kitchen equipment.

 

I think that is as close as we will get to knowing the answer and so I'll leave it there and move on to the second point regarding this train and the run back to York.

 

It is really two questions in one. It concerns the signalling between Malton and Weaverthorpe. There used to be several signal boxes along this stretch of line but they have now all gone but the level crossings they controlled are still there using half barriers to stop road traffic. However, after travelling on the line several times I cannot see any signals controlling the railway.

 

Now, on the return leg of this SSE the train was brought to a stand at Weaverthorpe most likely to pass a message to the driver and after the restart the next three level crossings were passed at walking speed.

Obviously something had gone wrong but the barriers were down at all the crossings but I could not see if the lights were working.

 

So my query is how is this stretch of line now worked with no signals protecting the crossings.

 

Peter

 

 

[Edwin_m]

If the crossings have barriers only half way across the road then these are automatic types and do not require protecting signals.  There will be a signal somewhere that can be put back to danger in emergency or if the crossing fails, but it may be a long way before the actual crossing.  In normal working the train has clear signals and the crossing only closes when the train is fairly close to it and has probably already passed the last signal before.  

 

If the crossings have barriers the whole way across the road then they are one of the various manual types (including ones that normally work automatically with obstacle detectors but the signaller can intervene if necessary).  With these the crossing has to be closed before the signals on the approach can be cleared.  So there will be a signal not too far away to avoid closing the road for too long, but not necessarily right at the crossing where the old signals probably were.  

[RRU]

There are seven crossings with automatic half barriers and several more farm crossings and not a signal anywhere. What if a vehicle stops on the crossing for whatever reason? There is no way to stop the train.

 

The line here is dead straight for many miIes so is this why the train just tootles along? Is the driver driving on sight?

 

Peter

 

[caradoc]

1 hour ago, RRU said:

There are seven crossings with automatic half barriers and several more farm crossings and not a signal anywhere. What if a vehicle stops on the crossing for whatever reason? There is no way to stop the train.

 

The line here is dead straight for many miIes so is this why the train just tootles along? Is the driver driving on sight?

 

Peter

 

 

The farm crossings will have phones, the user should contact the Signaller for permission to cross. And should an obstruction (of any kind) become known to the railway after a train has passed the last stop signal, an Emergency radio call would be made to the Driver.

 

[royaloak]

1 hour ago, RRU said:

There are seven crossings with automatic half barriers and several more farm crossings and not a signal anywhere. What if a vehicle stops on the crossing for whatever reason? There is no way to stop the train.

The same as most other half barrier crossings, there will be a very loud bang and it will be headline news.

[RRU]

2 hours ago, royaloak said:

The same as most other half barrier crossings, there will be a very loud bang and it will be headline news.

That is what I was thinking. SSE running again tomorrow and it`s the Ebor meeting at York so the trains are going to be busy.

 

Peter

 

[caradoc]

11 hours ago, RRU said:

That is what I was thinking. SSE running again tomorrow and it`s the Ebor meeting at York so the trains are going to be busy.

 

Peter

 

 

If a vehicle stops on a crossing just before a train arrives there will indeed be a collision, but please note the point I made earlier:  it is not nowadays the case that once a train has passed the last fixed signal there is absolutely no way to prevent it striking an obstruction. 

[RRU]

Thanks caradoc for your replies. You points have been taken onboard.

 

York station heaving today due to the Ebor meeting. Straw boaters and fasinators galore.

 

35018 "British India Line " on the SSE today.

Here it is at Scarborough.

 

 

And here it is departing.

It took 11 hours of travelling and waiting to get that shot. It looks like i`m  going again next week. Oh dear, what a shame, never mind.

 

That`s not all. On the way back I was bitten on the leg. When I got off the train my leg was itching and when I got home it was worse and now I have two big lumps on the back of my leg. Don`t laugfh.

 

Peter

 

 

 

[RRU]

Two more track related photo`s.

 

I saw this at Seamer station partway along the platform. Any ideas what it is?

 

This point motor at Scarborough sounded as though it was powered by an old clockwork motor.

 

After the two bolt fishplates at Malton, look at those behind the point motor. But I cannot see a joint there.

[jim.snowdon]

2 hours ago, RRU said:

Two more track related photo`s.

 

I saw this at Seamer station partway along the platform. Any ideas what it is?

 

This point motor at Scarborough sounded as though it was powered by an old clockwork motor.

 

After the two bolt fishplates at Malton, look at those behind the point motor. But I cannot see a joint there.

There's a joint there alright, actually two of them, but being factory made joints, everything has been cleaned up flush, including the insulation between the two rail ends.

 

And the point motor? Being an HW type, its inner workings are gear driven, which will account for the noise, especially if they are well worn.

 

Jim 

[RRU]

Thanks for that, Jim.

 

It looks like trains are going to be serviced at Scarborough. The sidings have been ballasted and a long servicing bay built plus fuel tanks at the far end.

 

The only access to these sidings is via platform one since the station was re-modelled.

 

Peter

 

 

[ajwffc]

I think the yellow thing is for Selected door opening. 

The inside of the point motor can be seen about 5min 20sec in this video 

 

[a98087]

Yep the yellow thing is for asdo automated selective door opening,

 

they get get programmed with a laptop, fitted and then they tell any train fitted with asdo how many door and what side to open 

 

the pictures also shows a back drive attached to the point, the purpose being to move the rear of the switch over,

 

Normally its mounted in between the running rails in 3rd rails areas , and outside when there isn’t no 3rd rail

 

dan 

[RRU]

Thanks for the replies chaps. There is always someone with the answer.

 

The boys are still playing with their new trains.

Here are some shots taken on the 15th of August at Scarborough.

12809 propelled by 68027 “Splendid”.

This is 802 204 leaving.

68023 “Achilles”

 

See my next post for my solution to all this dead mileage.

 

Peter

[jim.snowdon]

9 hours ago, a98087 said:

the pictures also shows a back drive attached to the point, the purpose being to move the rear of the switch over,

 

Normally its mounted in between the running rails in 3rd rails areas , and outside when there isn’t no 3rd rail

And is something of a British peculiarity resulting from a self-imposed limit on the switch opening that harks back to the days of mechanical operation. So is the flexible stretcher bar, as well as its modern replacement, the tubular stretcher bar, which is a singularly complex piece of kit for a simple task, and uniquely British.

 

Jim

[Trog]

On ‎17‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 21:57, Edwin_m said:

The wheel and track dimensions haven't changed significantly (new track was 3mm narrower for a couple of decades then went back to the traditional 1435mm). 

...................................

 

New track using CEN60 rail on G44 sleepers is now 1438mm gauge.

[Trog]

On ‎19‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 13:32, jim.snowdon said:

Without looking up the relevant track standard, I think the requirement is that they are greased at least twice a year - Spring and Summer to avoid them becoming locked up and preventing expansion.

 

Jim

 

I thought it was every other joint each year. You sometimes see joints with one bolt reversed so the P-Way can tell which plates they did last year.

[jim.snowdon]

7 minutes ago, Trog said:

 

I thought it was every other joint each year. You sometimes see joints with one bolt reversed so the P-Way can tell which plates they did last year.

Interesting.

 

Jim

[RRU]

Thanks Jim and Trog. It`s all very interesting. I have seen bolts reversed as you say, now I know why.

 

Peter

 

[RRU]

How to avoid the lengthy driver training that goes on with each new locomotive or train.

 

Have a standard set of driving controls for all powered rail vehicles. Then, when any new train is introduced, it will be able to go straight into service.

 

After my 21st birthday I was able to road test any of our vehicles because the driving controls were and still are the same. We had the same chassis with different bodies and the same bodies on different chassis, it didn't matter. They were all the same to drive. If you buy a new car, do you have to be re-trained as to how to drive it? No, you get in it and go. Why not have a set of standard controls for the railway?

 

Peter

[101]

58 minutes ago, RRU said:

How to avoid the lengthy driver training that goes on with each new locomotive or train.

 

Have a standard set of driving controls for all powered rail vehicles. Then, when any new train is introduced, it will be able to go straight into service.

 

After my 21st birthday I was able to road test any of our vehicles because the driving controls were and still are the same. We had the same chassis with different bodies and the same bodies on different chassis, it didn't matter. They were all the same to drive. If you buy a new car, do you have to be re-trained as to how to drive it? No, you get in it and go. Why not have a set of standard controls for the railway?

 

Peter

 

It's not quite as simple as that, the controls are all basically the same, at least the ones that make it go and make it stop. I retired as a driver two years ago but I'm still confident that I could drive any traction on the railway once I'd had a quick look to find the important controls, which do alter slightly in position from train to train, however I wouldn't drive it well and keep to time until I'd learnt how the train handles and how it stops. Going back to your car analogy I own two vehicles one of them being an old Land Rover and I have to drive that very differently to the other, this is same on the railway every train drives differently and you cant change that unless you make them all the same, ie same length, same weight, same number of wheels, same braking components etc which obviously wont happen as technology improves, and as a train can take over a mile to stop its not quite the same as getting into a new car.

Whilst traction training drivers are also learn 'faults and failures', which basically means where everything is on the train, fuses, switches, isolating cocks etc, so that they can hopefully get it going again when it breaks!

 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by 101

[RRU]

30 minutes ago, 101 said:

 

It's not quite as simple as that, the controls are all basically the same, at least the ones that make it go and make it stop. I retired as a driver two years ago but I'm still confident that I could drive any traction on the railway once I'd had a quick look to find the important controls, which do alter slightly in position from train to train, however I wouldn't drive it well and keep to time until I'd learnt how the train handles and how it stops. Going back to your car analogy I own two vehicles one of them being an old Land Rover and I have to drive that very differently to the other, this is same on the railway every train drives differently and you cant change that unless you make them all the same, ie same length, same weight, same number of wheels, same braking components etc which obviously wont happen as technology improves, and as a train can take over a mile to stop its not quite the same as getting into a new car.

Whilst traction training drivers are also learn 'faults and failures', which basically means where everything is on the train, fuses, switches, isolating cocks etc, so that they can hopefully get it going again when it breaks!

 

 

So the driving controls are basicly the same. That was my main point. I know each vehicle has it`s own feel to it which you usually get into after the first hour or so. Remember I am looking at this from a road transport viewpoint.

Here a driver was given a vehicle to drive and told to get on with it.

 

Peter