Incident at Wimbledon Station May 1927 - where can I find out more

[Stentor]

I’m trying to find out more about an incident that happened at Wimbledon Station on May 9th 1927 for which George Cobley was presented with this watch.

 

I’ve tried the local library and looked through the local papers around the time but there is nothing about this incident at all, only plenty of adverts for the Southern railway.

 

Are the original Southern  Railway records still held somewhere and are they accessible?

 

Can anybody suggest where I should look to find out more?

 

Thanks for any help.

 

//Simon

 

 

[JimC]

You could see if the minutes of board or committee minutes are held at the National Archives, but if GWR minutes are any guide they won't say any more than is on the inscription. 

If you can find a 'Guard Book' to match the minutes that might hold a copy of a letter to the board about the incident, but if GWR is any guide not many of those survive. 

[Jonboy]

Would that be the date of incident, or the presentation of the watch?

[roythebus]

If I can I'll copy this link to the FB Old Southern staff group, that may throw up something.

[Fat Controller]

It's quite likely that something like this would only make it as far as the station-master's log at most, unless there was injury to the person who was rescued.  One place it might show up, though not directly, is in the Train Register from whichever box covered the area: I would expect to see a reference along the lines of '** Line blocked **** hrs to **** hrs, due to person falling off platform' at most. I've filled in a lot of log entries over the last twenty years, and know that you try and keep things as brief as possible. In order for the watch to be presented, the station-master would have sent a letter to whoever was the next step up the chain of command. This letter, and the subsequent receipt for the watch, are possibly the only paper traces that ever existed, and it's quite likely they didn't survive. 

My great-aunt Mary received a commendation from the GWR after a similar incident; we've never found any paper-work for that.

[Porkscratching]

Fascinating item, you'd think if there was a handsome presentation like that involved (proportionally  very expensive in those days too), it would have been held as a bit more important an event?

I wonder at what level it would have been authorised?

It's a lovely piece anyway 

[JimC]

5 hours ago, Porkscratching said:

I wonder at what level it would have been authorised?

 

GWR Locomotive committee minutes show cash gratuities, but I've never seen a presentation item like a watch.  As you can see the minute doesn't give any detail.  2 guineas is unusual, it was usually one or half. 

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by JimC

[Porkscratching]

Interesting..not sure how much an engraved silver watch would cost then, quite expensive by today's standards I'd think, so quite a substantial prize for an ordinary working chap.

Also a bit more effort would be required in obtaining it and getting the engraving done, than a simple cash award..

[Stentor]

11 hours ago, Jonboy said:

Would that be the date of incident, or the presentation of the watch?

 

I don’t know for sure, I’ve assumed it was date of the incident as the inscription refers to the incident and it’s date would naturally be there.

 

//Simon

[Stentor]

8 hours ago, roythebus said:

If I can I'll copy this link to the FB Old Southern staff group, that may throw up something.

 

Thank you Roythebus that would be much appreciated.

//Simon

[Porkscratching]

Just out of interest I tried to look up what a silver watch would cost in 1927..unfortunately you just get loads of stuff advertising auctions, and "how much is my watch worth " rubbish !

However, a calculator of relative values places that £2 . 2shillings awarded in JimC's document at £122 in todays money, so I'd think the watch would likely be a fair bit more, so a handsome presentation indeed !

I do hope you can unearth some info on this...

[JimC]

What you need I think is an archive of contemporary magazines and look for advertisments. I did have a quick hunt but the only thing I had to hand was an Australian newspaoer, and I only found a couple I wasn't confident were comparable, but one was about £3, the other about £6, but gold.

[Roddy Angus]

Try checking if there were any reports in a local newspaper, if their archives are on line.

 

Regards Roddy

[Stentor]

2 hours ago, Roddy Angus said:

Try checking if there were any reports in a local newspaper, if their archives are on line.

 

Regards Roddy

 

That was my first thought Roddy but searching the microfilm copies in the local library didn’t reveal anything.  Local newspapers in the 1920s are very interesting there’s much more of a focus on world events and on school sports than you see today. 

 

I was was wondering if there was a searchable index for The Railway Magazine or an equivalent of the time which might have carried the story?

 

What the library archivist did find for me was this article about George Cobley which shows he went onto enjoy a long career with the Southern retiring from the railway in 1947.

 

//Simon 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Stentor

[Porkscratching]

Its great to find something like that, which starts to give a real sense of the man himself..

[Wickham Green]

2 hours ago, Stentor said:

 

That was my first thought Roddy but searching the microfilm copies in the local library didn’t reveal anything.  Local newspapers in the 1920s are very interesting there’s much more of a focus on world events and on school sports than you see today. 

 

I was was wondering if there was a searchable index for The Railway Magazine or an equivalent of the time which might have carried the story?

 

What the library archivist did find for me was this article about George Cobley which shows he went onto enjoy a long career with the Southern retiring from the railway in 1947.

 

//Simon 

Try tracking down Mrs Doris Jebbitt or her descendants ....... shouldn't be too tricky - it's an unusual surname.

[Nearholmer]

If he actually was permanently rostered on the Drain, which I slightly doubt, it implies that the incident took place while he was off duty, perhaps on his was to or from, which might have contributed to the high regard for his conduct.

[Denbridge]

Might be worth a trip to the Public Records Office in Kew.

[roythebus]

This helps in the search as Waterloo Depot ASLEF records may have something on this. The award being given at Wimbledon indicated he was based at Wimbledon, but of course divisional offices were there, but maybe not at that time?

 

Being a motorman would indicate ASLER and not NUR membership.

Edited August 19, 2019 by roythebus

[roythebus]

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=2089&fbclid=IwAR03X89HqrXq08BTWn3-yoy4l_ltjMtjlcX_DGXXplsGX9NiU5dxdfNvJy4

 

 

thanks to the good people on the Old Railway Buffers Southern Types on Facebook for the link.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

If he actually was permanently rostered on the Drain, which I slightly doubt, it implies that the incident took place while he was off duty, perhaps on his was to or from, which might have contributed to the high regard for his conduct.

And if he WAS permanently rostered onto The Drain, even if for perhaps half of that time. How many trips would he have made? At least he would have known the way!

[Nearholmer]

Thinking about it, given that he must have started work in 1898, he might just have worked on the W&C from when it opened, although perhaps too young to drive at the outset, at which time there were no other electrified lines on the LSWR, so maybe they did have a link of motormen only for that line.

 

You’d kind of get into the routine after 49 years, wouldn’t you?

[roythebus]

W&C duties were 16 trips each way in the 1980s. I can't see it would be possible or necessary to do more than that number in earlier times, passenger numbers wouldn't justify it, hence the single car operation for many years.

 

It would seem he was a fireman at Nine Elms and maybe as a chance to better himself went as a motorman at Waterloo to work on the new electric trains. I would suggest that he would have been a cleaner/passed cleaner and fireman for maybe 10 years before getting his motorman'a job. Progression in those days was slow, but WW1 shortened that for many. 

 

Maybe the 70A website would throw up more information on this gentleman?

 

[Stentor]

2 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

Try tracking down Mrs Doris Jebbitt or her descendants ....... shouldn't be too tricky - it's an unusual surname.

 

Hi Wickham Green, it’s them who asked for my help in finding out more, his descendants knew nothing about the incident until they found the watch.

 

Different times back then and I guess people didn’t talk about their achievements so much. 

 

//Simon 

[Stentor]

2 hours ago, roythebus said:

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=2089&fbclid=IwAR03X89HqrXq08BTWn3-yoy4l_ltjMtjlcX_DGXXplsGX9NiU5dxdfNvJy4

 

 

thanks to the good people on the Old Railway Buffers Southern Types on Facebook for the link.

 

Hi Roythebus,

It cannot be this as the watch is dated 9th May and this accident was on June 27th. 

 

//Simon