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Caroline Lucas (of the Green Party variety) was on LBC tonight, on the Ian Dale programme, being quizzed for (I think?) nearly a hour about her party's stance and policies, with the election in mind.

 

On the subject of transport and encouraging train travel, she was questioned as to why she was opposed to HS2 if she was in favour of greater use of the railways, particularly for longer distance travel?

 

Apart from concern about the "devastation' to trees and ancient woodland, she said she'd rather the investment went on railways "ordinary people could use", including new lines, also rather implying that HS2 was some sort of frivolous leisure line that "ordinary people" would have no use for !!!!!

You couldn't make this up.

It really is a sad state of affairs when politicians, journalists and other commentators are taking quite vociferous stances on issues they clearly have no understanding of.

You could say they always have, but I'm pretty convinced the ignorance has never been as bad as it is today.

It wouldn't be so bad if they objected on genuine concerns, such as the massive cost, whilst demonstrating that they knew and understood what HS2 was and how it came about.

 

It's a shame the General Election ballot paper doesn't have a "Send the whole lot of them to South Georgia" box to tick.

I suspect that option would win by a landslide.

 

 

 

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Cheers Phil.

I'm familiar with the principle. I just didn't recognise the terminology.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Caroline Lucas (of the Green Party variety) was on LBC tonight, on the Ian Dale programme, being quizzed for (I think?) nearly a hour about her party's stance and policies, with the election in mind.

 

On the subject of transport and encouraging train travel, she was questioned as to why she was opposed to HS2 if she was in favour of greater use of the railways, particularly for longer distance travel?

 

Apart from concern about the "devastation' to trees and ancient woodland, she said she'd rather the investment went on railways "ordinary people could use", including new lines, also rather implying that HS2 was some sort of frivolous leisure line that "ordinary people" would have no use for !!!!!

 

That's the problem with the likes of Caroline Lucas. They oppose everything the Government is doing on principle, and are quite capable of attacking a Government policy whilst simultaneously promoting a identical one of their own. 

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4 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Apart from concern about the "devastation' to trees and ancient woodland, she said she'd rather the investment went on railways "ordinary people could use", including new lines, also rather implying that HS2 was some sort of frivolous leisure line that "ordinary people" would have no use for !!!!!

You couldn't make this up.

It really is a sad state of affairs when politicians, journalists and other commentators are taking quite vociferous stances on issues they clearly have no understanding of.

 

While I wouldn't rule out ignorance, I would point out like a lot of politicians some of their policies are based on what the donors want regardless of whether it makes sense or not.

 

If enough money/funding for the Green Party comes from people opposed to HS2, then oppose it they will.

 

And like any niche party with little chance of ever forming a government their policies don't have to make even a little tiny bit of sense because they will never be exposed to the reality of the real world.

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22 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

Firstly the biggest problem with double deck trains is NOT HEIGHT - ITS THE UK HISTORICALLY HAVING HIGH LEVEL PLATFORMS!

 

If you pay attention to double deck trains used in Europe, you will note that their carriages have a wide body hanging down between the bogies facilitating a spacious lower deck- something that is only possible because it won't be foul of the loading gauge (in particular platforms). Those same carriages would be ripped open like tin cans over here if you tried to use them, regardless of how high the bridges were.

 

Having a spacious lower deck is essential because things like staircases take up room that could otherwise be used for seats or standing space. Also such double deck carriages must have the doors at the ends rather than at the 1/3rd and 2/3rd positions, which brings allow for quicker station dwell times as its easier for folk to board / alight.

 

Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to design a carriage that is both double-decked and can cope with high platforms?

 

... Don't HS2 expect to run both existing (legacy) trains and double-decked one on the same lines?

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40 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to design a carriage that is both double-decked and can cope with high platforms?

 

... Don't HS2 expect to run both existing (legacy) trains and double-decked one on the same lines?

Double deck trains in some of Europe, at least, aren't that spacious on the lower decks. Many Paris-area sets have four-a-side on the lower deck v/s six on the upper. ISTR that some, at least, had seats arranged as per the AEC Bridgemaster or Bristol Lodekka.

 

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53 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

Surely it is not beyond the wit of man to design a carriage that is both double-decked and can cope with high platforms?

 

... Don't HS2 expect to run both existing (legacy) trains and double-decked one on the same lines?

 

No its not - but please study the loading gauge diagrams I posted earlier!

 

Please take heed of how the UK platform designs eats into the space below the solebar used for double deck trains in the rest of the world - plus the narrower and shorter bodyshell in the first place.

 

Double deck trains built to UK traditional loading gauge, while technically possible, would be too cramped inside - only 8ft wide inside compared to just under 10ft as used in Germany etc. as well as causing extended station dwell times.

 

HS2 itself is being built to continental loading gauge - with high level platforms set back far enough that they do not invade the space required for double deck trains.

 

The trains on HS2 that extend onto the classic network with therefore need extendable steps / ramps / bridging pieces to bridge the gap between the platform and the train at HS2 stations.

 

On the conventional UK network these extendable devices will not be needed as the platforms will be the same distance from the train as they are for conventional UK rolling stock.

 

As with many things in life its easier to add 'filler' material / devices than it is to remove material  to make things fit!

Edited by phil-b259
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12 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Caroline Lucas (of the Green Party variety) was on LBC tonight, on the Ian Dale programme, being quizzed for (I think?) nearly a hour about her party's stance and policies, with the election in mind.

 

On the subject of transport and encouraging train travel, she was questioned as to why she was opposed to HS2 if she was in favour of greater use of the railways, particularly for longer distance travel?

 

Apart from concern about the "devastation' to trees and ancient woodland, she said she'd rather the investment went on railways "ordinary people could use", including new lines, also rather implying that HS2 was some sort of frivolous leisure line that "ordinary people" would have no use for !!!!!

You couldn't make this up.

It really is a sad state of affairs when politicians, journalists and other commentators are taking quite vociferous stances on issues they clearly have no understanding of.

You could say they always have, but I'm pretty convinced the ignorance has never been as bad as it is today.

It wouldn't be so bad if they objected on genuine concerns, such as the massive cost, whilst demonstrating that they knew and understood what HS2 was and how it came about.

 

It's a shame the General Election ballot paper doesn't have a "Send the whole lot of them to South Georgia" box to tick.

I suspect that option would win by a landslide.

 

 

 

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Here is the only section I can find in the Green Party's manifesto:

 

TR244 The Green Party believes that long-distance service provision should not concentrate on high speeds where this will affect local service provision or take up an excessive amount of limited resources. The Green Party supports the principle of a new north-south high speed line which would reduce the number of short-haul flights within the UK.

 

That alone seems to reflect a misunderstanding of the purpose of HS2, but their transport policy overall is very sensible, if somewhat ambitious. It appears from this that they support the building of a High Speed line, but have not chosen to support the one on offer, but without suggesting an alternative. Is that the gist of that part of the interview??

 

Edited by Mike Storey
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1 hour ago, Mike Storey said:

.......That alone seems to reflect a misunderstanding of the purpose of HS2, but their transport policy overall is very sensible, if somewhat ambitious.
It appears from this that they support the building of a High Speed line, but have not chosen to support the one on offer, but without suggesting an alternative.

Is that the gist of that part of the interview??

 


No it wasn’t the gist at all.

She said was opposed to a high speed line, in favour of reopening and building new lines that “ ordinary people” would benefit from.

Ian Dale pressed her on the contradictions in her stance and party policy on transport, but she didn’t seem to understand.

It was a very muddled stance on her part.

She was even worst on some other topics.

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4 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:


No it wasn’t the gist at all.

She said was opposed to a high speed line, in favour of reopening and building new lines that “ ordinary people” would benefit from.

Ian Dale pressed her on the contradictions in her stance and party policy on transport, but she didn’t seem to understand.

It was a very muddled stance on her part.

She was even worst on some other topics.

 

Sounds like she hasn't bothered reading their manifesto, which was updated only last June......

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Diane Abbot has that t-shirt

#imissedthemediatrainingpowerpointpresentation

 

And before anyone suggests, I'm not knocking either of these ladies, merely pointing out that if you're gonna enter the media circus lions den, having a sturdy (knowledge) chair to fend off the inevitable questions might be wise.

 

C6T. 

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On 14/11/2019 at 10:43, Fat Controller said:

Double-deck trains don't tend to carry twice the number of passengers for a given train length; it's closer to one and a half times, by the time you've allowed for access to the two decks. They also have a long dwell time at stations; from observation of French, Belgian and Italian systems, about twice that of UK trains on similar workings.

Mind you in the Sydney suburban system they do have 18 second (yes, eighteen) dwell times at many city centre stations although when I was working over there in 2004/5 some of them were being doubled in order to reduce delays.  The big debate in Sydney - reflected in more recent train builds - has been a lot of comparison of various factors, including dwell times and loading/unloading rates, when considering whether they should order more double deckers or go back to single deck designs. 

 

 

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Is there any truth in the rumour that some politicians are asking for another revue REVIEW because that wasnt the answer they wanted?

 

Sorry!

 

Edited to keep the perfect pedants happy, sorry if the very strong painkillers I am on are affecting my ability to spell.

Edited by royaloak
Attack of the pedants.
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1 hour ago, royaloak said:

Is there any truth in the rumour that some politicians are asking for another revue because that wasnt the answer they wanted?

 

Sorry!

No, they will do exactly the opposite of the revue because it’s for the good of the country :blink:

 

 

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I would pay good money to see an HS2 revue (as opposed to review), presumably featuring dancing anti MPs and singing pro railwaymen, with Lord Berkeley as the Leonard Sachs-style compere !

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27 minutes ago, caradoc said:

I would pay good money to see an HS2 revue (as opposed to review), presumably featuring dancing anti MPs and singing pro railwaymen, with Lord Berkeley as the Leonard Sachs-style compere !

Well it has been a farce so far :o

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Anyone notice that the country is running itself just fine, whilst Parliament is shut down and the government ministers are away from their day job for most of the time, doing election type stuff instead. :diablo_mini:

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Anyone notice that the country is running itself just fine, whilst Parliament is shut down and the government ministers are away from their day job for most of the time, doing election type stuff instead. :diablo_mini:

 

 

 

 

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Yeah. I mean, there's no homelessness problem, no poverty, no violence, no dodgy cladding fires...

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20 minutes ago, Dave47549 said:

Yeah. I mean, there's no homelessness problem, no poverty, no violence, no dodgy cladding fires...

 

No different to when Parliament is sitting then?

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Gosh this thread has gone all dictatorial. instead of burning down the Reichs Houses of Parliament lets just try to make the trains run on time.

As for a Government in exile in South Georgia,  I'm with Greta Thunberg and the Greens on the greenhouse gases implicit in this.

Who remembers the late lamented "New Society" mag proposing Stoke on Trent as the new capital for the UK back in the 1960s ? In retrospect it would have made a lot of sense.

A couple of years back my grandson researched a very well received A level project on Grantham as a capital site for a new  ....

dh

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14 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

Dangerous territory - shall we just keep to HS2, maybe, perhaps???

And of course HS2 isn’t :lol:

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16 hours ago, Dave47549 said:

 

 

Yeah. I mean, there's no homelessness problem, no poverty, no violence, no dodgy cladding fires...

I noticed precious little being done about any of those before they all went off campaigning for election.

 

John

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19 hours ago, caradoc said:

I would pay good money to see an HS2 revue (as opposed to review), presumably featuring dancing anti MPs and singing pro railwaymen, with Lord Berkeley as the Leonard Sachs-style compere !

If held in the same venue as The Good Old Days, it would at least be in Leeds, which I can't envisage HS2 itself getting anywhere near in the coming decade.

 

John

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