Kerr Stuart KS4421 in EM Gauge

[Sandhole]

6 hours ago, Barclay said:

The bonnet received a door on the front from a piece of 5 thou brass shim, and was soldered to the running plate with some 0.5mm brass angle around its base. That was so small that I struggled to work out what way up it was - I think I've reached the age when I need an Optivisor...

 

The cab was made from 10 thou with beading from brass wire, and has been soldered in place. Thanks to pictures kindly supplied by Avonside 1563 and Sir Douglas I can now make a reasonable stab at a cab interior. Looking at drawings I think the basic layout was the same when it had the McClaren-Benz engine (Not Mercedes-Benz as suggested on one website !!) so I will make it look more or less as it does today. Room for a little lead in front of the cab and in the radiator assembly in the cab, plus a small piece inside the cab roof, which should balance the loco. With the bonnet on I found the flywheel was catching the front body mounting bolt. No room to move it upwards as clearance under the bonnet is very limited so part of the nut was ground down.

 

The bottom front left corner of the cab looks a little awry in the pictures and inspection revealed that the cab side had slightly relocated itself, presumably when I soldered the cab to the running plate, so this has now been corrected. Photography can be a useful tool when building models.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As usual, you have created a gem.
Regards,
Chris.

[Barclay]

A final push has seen the last details added. Grab rails; cab handrails (not the right sort but I had forgotten to drill holes for the knobs before assembly, and ran out of knobs in any case); an exhaust from brass tube, which won't be affixed until after painting; and a very simple cab interior that is similar to the one the loco has now but with the radiator assembly a little more squared off and upright as the drawings suggest it was back then - it is in large part supposition, with a grille from a suitably sized etch from A1 models and a header tank from square section brass tube. There's also a brake standard from brass tube, wire, and a handrail knob, but that's all there is inside since I realised how little you can see with the roof on. The last thing was the sprockets and chains. The sprockets, dummy, and quite immobile of course, were made from brass, filed into circles and notched with a sharp file to represent the teeth. The 'chain' is 2 strands of very fine wire twisted tightly together and soldered to the sprockets. These assemblies were doused in metal black before being Araldited into place.

 

It now needs a big clean up before it goes into the paint shop.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[Adam]

Superb!

 

Adam

[Sandhole]

4 hours ago, Barclay said:

A final push has seen the last details added. Grab rails; cab handrails (not the right sort but I had forgotten to drill holes for the knobs before assembly, and ran out of knobs in any case); an exhaust from brass tube, which won't be affixed until after painting; and a very simple cab interior that is similar to the one the loco has now but with the radiator assembly a little more squared off and upright as the drawings suggest it was back then - it is in large part supposition, with a grille from a suitably sized etch from A1 models and a header tank from square section brass tube. There's also a brake standard from brass tube, wire, and a handrail knob, but that's all there is inside since I realised how little you can see with the roof on. The last thing was the sprockets and chains. The sprockets, dummy, and quite immobile of course, were made from brass, filed into circles and notched with a sharp file to represent the teeth. The 'chain' is 2 strands of very fine wire twisted tightly together and soldered to the sprockets. These assemblies were doused in metal black before being Araldited into place.

 

It now needs a big clean up before it goes into the paint shop.

 

 

That's a Bloody work of art, my Friend!
Big Regards,
Chris.

[Barclay]

Thanks chaps. Got some primer on it last week but it showed up a tiny gap between cab side and front so it was out with the Milliput and emery stick then a fresh blast of Halfords' best. Hopefully I can straighten that handrail up too!

 

The paint has had a few days to harden off so as soon as the weather warms up I can get out to the garage and attempt to make it green.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[Ruston]

It's looking very nice. The chain drive looks good, too. I guess it's small enough that you'll never notice that it isn't actually turning when the loco is in motion.

[Barclay]

I hope so. The alternative was revolving sprockets but no chain, and I think that would have looked less satisfactory!

[Barclay]

I quite enjoy the painting stage but as I'm naturally impatient it can be quite frustrating, leaving the necessary gaps between different coats to avoid it all turning to sludge. The green was sprayed on, followed by brush painting for the red and the black (toned down with grey and brown). My usual brass number plate didn't seem to sit well on a diesel, so numbers were taken from an HMRS sheet for LMS loco. numbers, gold shaded red. Works plate from Narrow Planet. Then the same 'black' mixture was much thinned down for an all over light weathering effect, more to tone everything together than make it look too dirty. Further light weathering was from powders plus AK Interactive 'Shaft and bearing grease' on the tensioners, chains and sprockets. I have also been using their weathering pencils to try to create chipping effects where primer or bare metal might show through on steps, etc. Crew, glazing and couplings and it was finally done!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The new tin of GWR green I bought was for the later shade, post 1926. Not being a GWR aficionado I was surprised to see how different it is to the earlier version I have used on other loco's, including, sadly, my 1946-built 8750 pannier tank, which should clearly be in the later shade. Never mind...

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Barclay

[Adam]

That’s wonderful, Stuart! I especially like the transfer numbers in lieu of the brass plates - painted names and numbers on industrials are something we don’t do enough as modellers (we’re all suckers for a bit of brass…).

 

Adam

[Ruston]

That's a marvellous bit of work. I'm rather jealous of it.

 

Didn't Kerr Stuart also build a 4-wheeled standard gauge diesel?

[Barclay]

14 hours ago, Adam said:

That’s wonderful, Stuart! I especially like the transfer numbers in lieu of the brass plates - painted names and numbers on industrials are something we don’t do enough as modellers (we’re all suckers for a bit of brass…).

 

Adam

Thank you - I love the look of painted lettering too, something like the Slough Estates loco's. I tried it a while ago but it wasn't good enough for a full roll-out. I suppose the only way to go is to commission a sheet of transfers, but then they'd be waterslide presumably, and, apart from Microscale, I don't really rate those. 

 

14 hours ago, Ruston said:

That's a marvellous bit of work. I'm rather jealous of it.

 

Didn't Kerr Stuart also build a 4-wheeled standard gauge diesel?

I think they did, but I only borrowed the book and it's back with its owner now. I will ask him.

[Mol_PMB]

They did. 

Considering that they were a very early diesel loco design built in small numbers, the survival rate for these KS diesels is remarkably high. 

Allan Baker’s book is well worth a read. 

[sir douglas]

4428 "Redland" for example

https://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/redland.htm

[Sandhole]

On 02/01/2022 at 16:18, Barclay said:

I quite enjoy the painting stage but as I'm naturally impatient it can be quite frustrating, leaving the necessary gaps between different coats to avoid it all turning to sludge. The green was sprayed on, followed by brush painting for the red and the black (toned down with grey and brown). My usual brass number plate didn't seem to sit well on a diesel, so numbers were taken from an HMRS sheet for LMS loco. numbers, gold shaded red. Works plate from Narrow Planet. Then the same 'black' mixture was much thinned down for an all over light weathering effect, more to tone everything together than make it look too dirty. Further light weathering was from powders plus AK Interactive 'Shaft and bearing grease' on the tensioners, chains and sprockets. I have also been using their weathering pencils to try to create chipping effects where primer or bare metal might show through on steps, etc. Crew, glazing and couplings and it was finally done!

 

 

 

 

 

The new tin of GWR green I bought was for the later shade, post 1926. Not being a GWR aficionado I was surprised to see how different it is to the earlier version I have used on other loco's, including, sadly, my 1946-built 8750 pannier tank, which should clearly be in the later shade. Never mind...

 

 

 

LOVE this beast.
As usual, you create superb models.
Great to see the 'big' diesel in the background!
Regards,
Chris.

[TurboSnail]

I've decided to have a go at the 4-wheel version (w/n 4428), and struggled with the chassis concept while keeping it cheap - a High Level QuadDriver would be first choice, but is out of budget. Thought about using plastic gears, but I think 3-point compensation on one axle will be important for pickup, so eventually just decided to represent the chain drive with an o-ring and use that to drive the non-powered axle - I'd have preferred a Nigel Lawton drive belt, but they don't go up to the correct size. Hopefully that, coupled with plenty of weight, will be enough to get traction! I'm not expecting it to have to handle particularly heavy trains on my shunting plank.

 

Test chassis pictured, when I was experimenting with elastic thread to try and make it look a bit like chain - now replaced with 1mm section o-ring. Also not quite got the compensation height set right yet!

 

[Barclay]

That 'chain' drive looks fantastic !

[TurboSnail]

Looked good, but the join made the running a bit lumpy! The o-ring solution definitely doesn't look as good, but at least runs a bit smoother.

 

Might use the thread method for static models though, I've got a Sentinel road wagon that needs a cosmetic drive chain - stretching the elastic thread slightly makes it look a bit more realistic

[TurboSnail]

Hopefully @Barclay doesn't mind me cluttering up this thread (please say if so, and I'll remove!), but I'm trying to work out some of the modifications on K4428.

 

This pic shows a few of them as per its current state at Quainton Rd (I took this pic about a month ago) - the bodywork forward of the cab is not original, and there seems to be a tank (possibly fuel) inside the cab - filler just about visible on the left. That may be due to the swap to the Ruston engine in the 1940s, there is also presumably the air reservoir and compressor engine in the cab somewhere. What I'm interested in, is what was in the cab in its original condition? One drawing shows an upright structure with what looks like a tank at the top - radiator? But why put that in the cab?

 

In this pic, the rods running between the axleboxes and the gearbox (not entirely sure what they are, maybe someone can enlighten me?) appear to have swapped ends, so was the gearbox moved to the back when the engine swap was done, or at some other time? Or has something more radical happened, like the bonnet and cab swapping ends? That might explain why it now has the radiator at the front and the fuel tank (presumably) in the cab, opposite to the original drawings.

 

Facts or idle speculation gladly accepted 😁

 

[Barclay]

Hi - don't mind at all - most interesting!

 

The rods between the axleboxes are the tensioners for the chains so that slack could be taken out as the chains wore. Indeed the 6 coupled one had the gearbox at the front and the radiator at the back in the cab, but as I only borrowed the book I don't have the full details now.

[TurboSnail]

Thanks - in which case it makes sense that both the 4 and 6-wheel versions would be designed along the same principles - so I need to design a radiator to go in the cab along with the controls and handbrake!

 

Would still be interesting to find out why the gearbox has swapped ends though.

[Asterix2012]

On 22/07/2022 at 16:08, TurboSnail said:

Thanks - in which case it makes sense that both the 4 and 6-wheel versions would be designed along the same principles - so I need to design a radiator to go in the cab along with the controls and handbrake!

 

Would still be interesting to find out why the gearbox has swapped ends though.

I wonder if the radiator in the cab was the issue 

[TurboSnail]

1 hour ago, Asterix2012 said:

I wonder if the radiator in the cab was the issue 

Quite possibly.

 

I've done a bit more looking into the rebuild, specifically at the frame profile - at the front, in the image below, there is a longer gap in front of the wheel before the frame swoops down to the level of the bottom of the bufferbeam than their is at the back. This is the opposite to the drawings and an early photo I've seen, so coupling that with the gearbox, fuel tank and radiator positions all also swapping, I'm concluding that at some point, the cab and body has been re-fitted facing the opposite way, rather than the component positions swapping ends. 

 

Why this has been done, who knows. The control linkages would have all had to have been remade presumably, and the cab is now quite cramped with the fuel tank, air reservoir, starting engine and gearbox all in there.

 

[avonside1563]

4421 will be out and about at the Foxfield Railway over the weekend of 3rd 4th September alongside KS4388. This is to mark 4388’s official entry into traffic and a celebration of Stoke on Trent engineering 

[sir douglas]

some nice photos in this talk about Murthwaite

4421 is in about 44:30 to 49:30

 

[avonside1563]

4421 will be hauling its first ever passenger trains over this coming weekend 3rd and 4th September at the Kerr Stuart gala at Foxfield Railway alongside Kerr Stuart 4388 and either Beyer Peacock 1827 or Marston Thompson and Evershed No3. Also featuring the restored North Staffordshire Railway coaches and the first public appearance of Midland Railway Picnic Saloon No 348 which is undergoing restoration with an eventual return to traffic. Advanced booking is required for 4421's trains departing at 9.30am both days. Tickets valid all day.

 

https://foxfieldrailway.co.uk/event/kerr-stuart-vintage-weekend/