SCALEFORUM 2019

[Irish Padre]

Brilliant show. All credit to the organisers! Great display of trade and talent. I was particularly taken by the demonstrator who patiently taught my son how to make a P4 crossing. I’m a 7mm man myself but it’s on

the doorstep. I’ll be back.

[Kelly]

Home after another great Scaleforum.  Great selection of layouts. The trade met my needs as I didn't particularly buy much (other than yet more books).

 

Thanks to Terry and the team for putting on such a great show.

 

Knackered now. Time for much needed rest and to look forward to the next one as always.

[chris p bacon]

Went today (2nd year running) and loved it. Excellent layouts with superb running and stock, I really like Burntisland and look forward to seeing it but it was pipped by London road which was on its last outing. Faultlss running and excellent stock.

 

Spent a couple of hundred with traders who didn't complain at all......

[Pete the Elaner]

I thought the stands were spread a little & with closer spacing another 30%-40% could have been fit in the hall.

Having said that, it was nice to see layouts on which the standard of track was noticeably finer than a normal show & the traders were excellent, providing detailing parts, signals, track components etc, which you can't often buy in 1 place,

There were no box-shifters but other exhibitions provide these & they are easily accessible online so I appreciate a show like this without them.

[Siberian Snooper]

I thought it was a great show, I had a chat with a few of the traders, the lack of box shifters is a bonus to my mind.

 

The layouts were great and the standard of modelling was superb, with or without trains running in some cases. Layouts that can stand up to scrutiny when trains are not running are a rare beast and a couple of the layouts were quite large.

 

 

[Compound2632]

46 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

The layouts were great and the standard of modelling was superb, with or without trains running in some cases. Layouts that can stand up to scrutiny when trains are not running are a rare beast and a couple of the layouts were quite large.

 

 

I found a plastic chair at a table in the corner from which I could admire the Sussex countryside, viaduct and all, at a prototypical eye level. I didn't see many trains though - I thought this was the main line from London to Brighton, Newhaven, Eastbourne, etc.? Mind you, I would only have been really happy if the B4 and express from Pulborough had put in an appearance!

[PenrithBeacon]

On 19/09/2019 at 23:47, Porcy Mane said:

 

The travel info is all linked to in the thread above.

 

Have a look at page xiv.

 

scaleforum2019guide.pdf 3.88 MB · 24 downloads

 

You could also use other tools that are at you disposal such as:

 

http://app.arrivabus.co.uk/journeyplanner/query/en?ld=std&OK#focus

 

Which gives such info as below.

Your Journeys

↑ Earlier  |  ↑ First connection

 DateStartArriveDurationChangesJourney

28.09.1910:0110:120:110 300

Details

Map

JourneyTimeBus Stop 

10:01 fromAylesbury Railway Station 

 Walk3 Minutes, 682 ft

  

10:05 atAylesbury Bus Station

10:05 fromAylesbury Bus Station, Stand Bay 7 

 Bus 300⇒ High Wycombe
Operator: ARRIVA the Shires (AY)
next alternative departures: Bus X30 10:15, Bus 300 10:35, Bus 300 11:05, Bus X30 11:15, Bus 300 11:35 ... more than 5

10:12 atAylesbury Stoke Mandeville Hospital Main Gate

runs Sat, Sun

Please note: The scheduled times are estimated.

28.09.1910:0310:120:0918 300

28.09.1910:1110:220:110 X30

 

If you have one of those new fan-dangled communication devices you can even track the position of your intended steed.

 

http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/journeyplanner/help/en?tpl=livemap

 

Please don't forget to report back with your usual account of what the food smelt like and if the catering is not up to your expectations there is an Asda a short walk away. If Asda's not to your liking there is a Co-op just round the corner  (next to the fish & chip shop).

 

P

 

I went on Saturday and used public transport. Overall, it was not a success. I got to Aylesbury  OK and in reasonable time (quicker actually than I would have achieved by car on a Saturday) but the bus journey onwards was dreadful and it was principally down to the Arriva app  which was falsely telling me to use the bus stop outside the station for the service to the hospital. I eventually asked a bus driver for advice, he took me to the bus station and after a 20 minute wait the designated bus arrived. I won't do that again and the experience offers some insight into why it is that attendance at the show has been so consistently poor. Discussing this later at the show it emerged that there isn't a Sunday service at all!

 

I do think that the use of the venue should be reviewed.

 

Putting that to one side, I enjoyed the show. The layouts were brilliant, truly outstanding and an absolute delight to see; the traders were as good as ever and I added to the post-Brexit stockpile, and I enjoyed a number of conversations with people whom I don't see as often as I should. An excellent afternoon.

 

I decided to walk to Stoke Manderville Station to catch the homeward train. Google maps told me it was around 2 miles from the stadium and it would take 30 minutes to walk. The train arrived OK and the journey was fine, no problems.

 

Looking forward to Scalefour North which, next year, is on on the last weekend of March in its usual location.

 

Regards

Edited September 30, 2019 by PenrithBeacon
Grammar

[polybear]

12 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I eventually asked a bus driver for advice, he took me to the bus station and after a 20 minute wait the designated bus arrived. I won't do that again and the experience offers some insight into why it is that attendance at the show has been so consistently poor. Discussing this later at the show it emerged that there isn't a Sunday service at all!

 

I do think that the use of the venue should be reviewed.

 

 

Or perhaps consider the use of a Vintage Bus service, as the Railex exhibition (at the same venue, earlier in the year) do.  However, the budget would need to accommodate this; from memory the S4Soc reported that the exhibition showed somewhat of a loss last year   

[Bonafide]

47 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Discussing this later at the show it emerged that there isn't a Sunday service at all!

 

Yes there is!  Route 300 provides an hourly service on Sundays:

 

https://www.arrivabus.co.uk/beds-and-bucks/services/300-X30---aylesbury-to-high-wycombe/?direction=outbound

[Porcy Mane]

2 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I won't do that again and the experience offers some insight into why it is that attendance at the show has been so consistently poor.

 

Sorry but blaming the failings of public transport (or maybe that should be "failed integrated public transport") for consistently poor attendance of a show without knowing what percentage of paying attendees arrived by using public transport (or how many didn't attend because of lack of confidence in a public transport service operated via a private company that receives subsidies from the public purse) does not hold water. Railex seems to manage.

Also as far as I am aware no attendance figures for this year have been published as yet, so we don't know if a downward trend has been observed.

At a wild guess I'd say the paying attendance figures would be around the 350 to 450 mark but regardless of that figure, I'd think that the vast majority arrive by car.

There is a very good taxi service that operates a cheap fixed price tariff within the town confines of Aylesbury that includes Stoke Mandeville Stadium. Its very efficient apart from around sunset during Ramadan (sometimes coincides with Railex).

 

Being an almost daily user of public transport provided by Arriva, I appreciate your frustration but as I said earlier, to attribute poor S4um attendance to poor transport links, no matter where it could be held...    no.

 

Even good old Shank's pony cant be said to be 100% reliable.

 

P

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Porcy Mane

[Compound2632]

I drove to the show, as I have done in previous years (and to Railex); this is the first time I've found the designated parking area full - I was directed to a rather remote additional parking area, behind the boilerhouse. So evidently numbers can't have been so very bad. I was arriving earlier than I usually do (11am rather than 2pm-ish, on the Sunday) and did nip out to move my car closer later - not wanting to be caught out by heavy rain towards the end of the afternoon!

[PenrithBeacon]

29 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

Sorry but blaming the failings of public transport (or maybe that should be "failed integrated public transport") for consistently poor attendance of a show without knowing what percentage of paying attendees arrived by using public transport (or how many didn't attend because of lack of confidence in a public transport service operated via a private company that receives subsidies from the public purse) does not hold water. Railex seems to manage.

Also as far as I am aware no attendance figures for this year have been published as yet, so we don't know if a downward trend has been observed.

At a wild guess I'd say the paying attendance figures would be around the 350 to 450 mark but regardless of that figure, I'd think that the vast majority arrive by car.

There is a very good taxi service that operates a cheap fixed price tariff within the town confines of Aylesbury that includes Stoke Mandeville Stadium. Its very efficient apart from around sunset during Ramadan (sometimes coincides with Railex).

 

Being an almost daily user of public transport provided by Arriva, I appreciate your frustration but as I said earlier, to attribute poor S4um attendance to poor transport links, no matter were it could be held...    no.

 

Even good old Shank's pony cant be said to be 100% reliable.

 

P

 

 

Sorry Porcy but public transport isn't working. It should, but it doesn't.

 

Regards

[Porcy Mane]

Just now, PenrithBeacon said:

Sorry Porcy but public transport isn't working. It should, but it doesn't.

 

I agree but it depends were you live. To get back to the exhibition, unfortunately the organisers of Scaleforum and most other railway shows hold no sway over the efficiency or otherwise of "our" public transport systems in its ability to service such events yet you felt the need to blame a flawed PTS for what you assume is falling attendance figures.

 

Neither can the organisers be held responsible for the users who fail to read the excellent published "how to get there" guides, those that seem to unable to use the tools at their disposal nor last minute changes to local services.

 

As I said, Even  Shank's pony cant be said to be 100% reliable.

[Compound2632]

I'm afraid I was the small traders' worst exhibition attendee - the sort that turns up with only £25 in cash, £10 of which went on admission. I did buy a pair of axles of 12 mm diameter Mansell disc wheels from the Alan Gibson stand, which saved me as much again in postage! (They were 00, under the counter...)

[Siberian Snooper]

I use the Google Map app to plan my journeys, these days and when using public transport it give you which bus stop where applicable and whether the bus is on time or late and the first ever running early,  mind you that didn't last. It even works abroad, I have used it in  Canada, Europe and the USA. It certainly works better than the tfl site for London, I made a visit to Uxbridge on Friday, tfl said walk to Ealing Common, catch a Piccadilly line train to Rayners Lane and change to the Met, at Uxbridge catch the 222. Google maps said walk to Ealing Broadway and catch the train to West Drayton and the 222 from there, saved me 25 minutes.

 

 

[Porcy Mane]

20 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

Google maps said walk to Ealing Broadway and catch the train to West Drayton and the 222 from there, saved me 25 minutes.

 

 

Yep. I've found using a bit of common sense when planning a journey with the interwebby can save both money and time.

[PenrithBeacon]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

I agree but it depends were you live. To get back to the exhibition, unfortunately the organisers of Scaleforum and most other railway shows hold no sway over the efficiency or otherwise of "our" public transport systems in its ability to service such events yet you felt the need to blame a flawed PTS for what you assume is falling attendance figures.

 

Neither can the organisers be held responsible for the users who fail to read the excellent published "how to get there" guides, those that seem to unable to use the tools at their disposal nor last minute changes to local services.

 

As I said, Even  Shank's pony cant be said to be 100% reliable.

I can see the logic but if the difficulties with public transport don't provide an answer to the poor attendance at Scaleforum then what does?

 

This is a photo I took at around 2 on Saturday: 

I have been told that it was thinner on Sunday

 

Regards

Edited September 30, 2019 by PenrithBeacon

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

I agree but it depends were you live. To get back to the exhibition, unfortunately the organisers of Scaleforum and most other railway shows hold no sway over the efficiency or otherwise of "our" public transport systems in its ability to service such events yet you felt the need to blame a flawed PTS for what you assume is falling attendance figures.

 

Neither can the organisers be held responsible for the users who fail to read the excellent published "how to get there" guides, those that seem to unable to use the tools at their disposal nor last minute changes to local services.

 

As I said, Even  Shank's pony cant be said to be 100% reliable.

I am sure we would all love a venue with a big car park & excellent public transport. Unfortunately the 2 which best fit this bill are NEC & SECC. As a result, prices are high, then people complain about this instead. I have seen some say they will never attend Warley again because of the high cost of food & drink. There is no such thing as a perfect venue.

A bus service from the nearest railway station is great but how much would this cost & who would pay? Someone has to because fuel & maintenance is not free.

 

So that leaves a trade-off between facilities, good parking, good public transport & cost. I agree that without doing a detailed study, it is necessary to guess at the split between those arriving by public & private transport. Don't assume everyone drives alone either. There were 4 of us in my car.

 

The photo above illustrates how wide the aisles were at Scaleforum. If you narrow these down to 2/3 of that width, they would start to look a little more populated. I was there on Sunday & it looked largely the same.

It is a specialist show though: where else could you go to see a collection of P4 layouts with such a good selection of traders & societies?

[Porcy Mane]

48 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I can see the logic but if the difficulties with public transport don't provide an answer to the poor attendance at Scaleforum then what does?

 

This is a photo I took at around 2 on Saturday: 

 

A picture paints a thousand words OR can be deceptive.

 

What your photograph does not convey is that this is a S4 society show that is open to the public. I cant remember what the total S4 membership is  but taking into account that membership is geographically spread predominantly throughout the UK  with a proportion being overseas and a good percentage of members that are at Aylesbury will not be included in attendance figures as they are there in some sort of official capacity.

 

For what it's worth I don't mind that part of my subscription fee will go towards subsidising annual shows that make a small loss. Even if I can't attend . 

 

In general model railway show terms the Guttmann Gymnasium is a very large space to fill. With this being Scalefour specific, finding new or fresh layouts to fill that hall every year must be one  of the organisers biggest headaches. I'm sure the committee when leaving Leatherhead looked at loads of alternative  venues and taking all the various criteria of organising the event, found the Guttmann centre to be the best compromise.

 

If you think you can do better and you are a society member I'm sure the organisers will welcome your input. Take yourself along to the AGM and make your feelings known rather than moan via RMweb.

 

I suspect if the show was held in smaller venue, were it was uncomfortable to move about,  there was very little space to view the layouts or heaven forbid, you could smell the food from the caterers! you would be the first to complain.

 

P

 

 

[PenrithBeacon]

10 minutes ago, Porcy Mane said:

 

A picture paints a thousand words OR can be deceptive.

 

What your photograph does not convey is that this is a S4 society show that is open to the public. I cant remember what the total S4 membership is  but taking into account that membership is geographically spread predominantly throughout the UK  with a proportion being overseas and a good percentage of members that are at Aylesbury will not be included in attendance figures as they are there in some sort of official capacity.

 

For what it's worth I don't mind that part of my subscription fee will go towards subsidising annual shows that make a small loss. Even if I can't attend . 

 

In general model railway show terms the Guttmann Gymnasium is a very large space to fill. With this being Scalefour specific, finding new or fresh layouts to fill that hall every year must be one  of the organisers biggest headaches. I'm sure the committee when leaving Leatherhead looked at loads of alternative  venues and taking all the various criteria of organising the event, found the Guttmann centre to be the best compromise.

 

If you think you can do better and you are a society member I'm sure the organisers will welcome your input. Take yourself along to the AGM and make your feelings known rather than moan via RMweb.

 

I suspect if the show was held in smaller venue, were it was uncomfortable to move about,  there was very little space to view the layouts or heaven forbid, you could smell the food from the caterers! you would be the first to complain.

 

P

 

 

This is like having a discussion with a politician. I think it's best to drop out

[Redkiterail]

I used public transport on Sunday the 300 and nine run from the bus station. I enjoyed the show layouts very good and spent a bit with traders. First time on Sunday quieter than a Saturday

[Redkiterail]

Here are pictures of London Road

[Redkiterail]

P76 Engineering/Sentinel Street

[Redkiterail]

Splott:

[Redkiterail]

Burntisland 1883