Prototypes for "classic" German model beer wagons etc?

[justin1985]

I recently picked up some of the long wheelbase four wheel German wagons that you always see in second hand stalls, etc. The types that have always been in Märklin and Trix train sets since the year dot. These particular ones are in Z scale, but I've seen identical Märklin models in HO and even Gauge 1. My plan is that while these wagons look a bit generic, and all seem to use the same chassis, I might be able to improve them with some weathering (and fitting MicroTrains couplings to shunt with).

 

Inspired by the interesting thread about the Hornby "KitKat" wagon actually having an interesting prototype, I was wondering how accurate the equivalent German models are?

 

However, I'm having trouble tracking down many actual prototype photos and weathering inspiration. Can anyone recommend websites with good selections of photos of German ep.4 trains, and especially wagons? Is there a German equivalent of Paul Bartlett's excellent wagon photo albums?

 

 

Märklin 8605 - I understand this is meant to be a "Gedeckter Güterwagen" - a bog standard covered wagon. However, looking on Google Image Search, this design with the ventilators but smooth sides, rather than planks, doesn't seem super common? Is it meant to be this one? https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Gedeckter-Güterwagen-Gs210.JPG  I'd love to see more photos of these in use!

 

This moulding also seems to appear a LOT in yellow with banana branding - is that remotely prototypical?

 

 

Märklin 8601 - the classic beer wagon - or "kühlwagen" - refrigerated wagon. Again, from what I can find on Google Images by searching for "kühlwagen DB", the moulding looks pretty accurate for a Interfrigo refrigerated wagon (models do seem to appear in this livery too) but the vast majority of the prototype refrigerated beer wagons that come up seem to be older style ones with wooden planks rather than metal sides. 

 

Are most of the beer livery ones entirely fictional?

 

 

Märklin 8622 - Offener Güterwagen - open wagon - UIC code Omm? This obviously looks like a bog standard open wagon, but I've failed to find a photo of one looking like this actually in service, rather than just as a model! What would be a suitable load? I get the impression that coal was almost always carried in hoppers from quite early on in Germany? 

 

Cheers!

J

[giz]

I don't kow if you've come across this site:

 

https://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons

 

May be a bit modern for what you are looking for but this one looks rather similar to your first photo:

 

https://www.tosh-railways.com/Wagons/80-db-germany/100-199/100-199/i-JkgX5sN/A

[Ian Morgan]

Some interesting stuff here .

 

 

[jonhall]

You probably want the Stefan Carstans books  https://www.amazon.de/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3AStefan+Carstens&s=relevancerank&text=Stefan+Carstens&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1

 

Jon

[justin1985]

Many thanks all - some great suggestions there. 

 

1 hour ago, jonhall said:

You probably want the Stefan Carstans books

 

 

They look amazing, but probably a bit of overkill for me for now. I need to stop adding new things to my railway library ... I need to stop ... 

[friscopete]

I believe  Roco used to do a model of a  wooden beer car .A green one .I forget the name but actually saw  one  in a siding by the Rhine in 82 with same name on it.As the train was an express i didnt get a great look at but enough to spot it .Might have been near Boppard

[sncf231e]

1 hour ago, friscopete said:

I believe  Roco used to do a model of a  wooden beer car .A green one .I forget the name but actually saw  one  in a siding by the Rhine in 82 with same name on it.As the train was an express i didnt get a great look at but enough to spot it .Might have been near Boppard

I assume you were thinking about Brauerei Königsbacher https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Kühlwaggon_Königsbacher.jpg

A search with "bierwagen königsbacher " shows many models in all gauges. As far as I know most of the beer livery ones are entirely fictional. This Märklin one is fictional for sure:

 

Many 1 gauge versions in my live steam beer train:

 

Regards

Fred

[Nearholmer]

I've always understood that at least some of the models of pre-WW2 beer, and for that matter banana, vans are authentic, but that most of the models of later wagons in these liveries are fictional. The situation is complicated by the fact that some real wagons have been painted in faux-old liveries by railway preservationists, and by breweries who have them as "billboards" at their premises.

 

The only really good photo of a pre-WW1 beer wagon that I can find is of one owned by a Luxembourg brewery, which doesn't help a great deal!

Edited August 28, 2019 by Nearholmer

[friscopete]

They are good fun .Cant wait for a Cadburys 009 box van and perhaps a Colemans  as well .I assume they sell well as most models in colorful liveries seem too . EKU >>>>>>EKU >>>> sigh.A pub in south Kensington used to sell Kulmbacher brews under the counter .to known blaggers .I went to Kulmbach several times to  visit the Zinnfiguren Borse so consumed and resupplied the noble pub  several times.

[Nearholmer]

This is a goldmine of info about pre-1920s ones, with drawings and photos http://www.laenderbahn-forum.de/journal/kbe_bierwagen/bierwagen_der_kbe.html

 

And, it references the boo that you really need: Spielhoff, Geschichte der Eisenbahn-Bierwagen, EK-Verlag, Freiburg 2000:

Edited August 28, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Vinedusk]

hmm pix.

Brawa HO. Might be beer.

 

Brawa HO. Is beer. Is Danish.

 

 

Brawa HO Wine. Austrian.

 

I suspect that the need for refrigerated beer cars declined as more customers got refrigeration at their premises.

That might explain why you're only finding the older cars.

 

I'm pretty sure that these are not fictional representations.

 

 

 

[doctor quinn]

The Carlsberg wagon is close to a it’s prototype.

https://www.jernbanen.dk/dsb_zvognsolo.php?aar=1893&vognid=198

 

The car isn’t an ice reefer, but is probably insulated - widespread pasteurisation of beer will have made refrigeration unnecessary but the beer would ave to be kept from freezing. The Brawa wine wagon looks to be a standard box van, I suspect wine has a lower freezing point.
 

Carlsberg replaces its heritage stock with a fleet of modern (1960s) beer wagons that were in turn replaced by swap bodies and trailer on flatcar.