Western Pullman Set

[tetsudofan]

My set arrived this morning (would have arrived yesterday had I not been showing the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch Railway to a friend from the USA*) and just got the unit running …. although it does seem to have landed in a time warp.....

 

 

Sounds are great and runs smoothly. 

 

Keith

 

*  and just as we approached Dungeness there sitting at the end of the branch from Appledore were two DRS Cl.68 diesels which had just delivered or were waiting for a couple of nuclear flasks, first time I had seen the train at Dungeness..... and I didn't have my camera with me!

[Oldddudders]

5 hours ago, tetsudofan said:

 

I didn't have my camera with me!

Always carry a modern cellphone! The camera is free.

[robertcwp]

Test run this evening on my old-fashioned DC layout: https://youtu.be/3aJzHID4e-o

[Legend]

On 09/09/2019 at 10:35, Phil Parker said:

 

Traders have been splitting sets up for years. I remember watching someone in Hattons, 2 shops ago, open a Hornby Flying Scotsman set and split it so a customer could just buy the controller. The loco, coaches and track into specific cubbyholes as this was regular practise. Presumably, you believe that Hornby "misjudged the market" on that set too?

 

At the moment, I can't see how anyone loses with this arrangement. 

 

‘Don’t Bachmann say that if the retailer splits sets they refuse to guarantee the product under warranty?  I seem to remember them taking exception to Cheltenham Model centre splitting red compounds from sets and selling them separately 

[Oldddudders]

11 hours ago, Legend said:

 

‘Don’t Bachmann say that if the retailer splits sets they refuse to guarantee the product under warranty?  I seem to remember them taking exception to Cheltenham Model centre splitting red compounds from sets and selling them separately 

Since the customer's gripe is with the seller, not Bachmann, any warranty work is simply discussed between the seller and Bachmann. Since the customer may well have disposed of the original packaging how will Bachmann know if the item was sold split from a set? And do you send back a huge set-box with the one item that has failed, anyway?

 

Retailers are in business to eat. Anything that moves product seems sensible. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Oldddudders

[The Stationmaster]

29 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Since the customer's gripe is with the seller, not Bachmann, any warranty work is simply discussed between the seller and Bachmann. Since the customer may well have disposed of the original packaging how will Bachmann know if the item was sold split from a set? And do you send back a huge set-box with the one item that has failed, anyway?

 

Retailers are in business to eat. Anything that moves product seems sensible. 

Bachmann are no doubt within their legal rights to say that splitting contents from a set invalidates their guarantee but surely you are absolutely correct here.  If I bought a set and have a defective control unit I don't take the whole shooting match back to the retailer - I just take the defective bit.   It's then up to the retailer to sort that with the manufacturer and I somehow can't envisage an entire complete trainset box being sent back for attention to only a single part of its contents.

 

Retailers have been splitting stuff out of sets for years - I can remember Eames in Reading doing it over 50 years ago and I'm sure they were not alone.  On one occasion - but not from them - I bought a Hornby Dublo 'set' which contained nothing but the wagons everything else had been sold separately and all I wanted was the wagons anyway; that was cheaper than buying the wagons individually.

[Legend]

32 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Since the customer's gripe is with the seller, not Bachmann, any warranty work is simply discussed between the seller and Bachmann. Since the customer may well have disposed of the original packaging how will Bachmann know if the item was sold split from a set? And do you send back a huge set-box with the one item that has failed, anyway?

 

Retailers are in business to eat. Anything that moves product seems sensible. 

 

Don't you need to provide receipt ?   Otherwise how does retailer / Bachmann know if its in or out of warranty period ? Clearly not an issue within the warranty time frame of a new model , but after release for a few months could be an issue . I cant remember the warranty period from Bachmann .

 

And yes I do keep receipts in the box when I buy loco , more out of interest , but useful in case of issues.

[Oldddudders]

23 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Don't you need to provide receipt ?   Otherwise how does retailer / Bachmann know if its in or out of warranty period ? Clearly not an issue within the warranty time frame of a new model , but after release for a few months could be an issue . I cant remember the warranty period from Bachmann .

 

And yes I do keep receipts in the box when I buy loco , more out of interest , but useful in case of issues.

Yes, you show your receipt to the retailer, and he pursues your claim. 

[adb968008]

perhaps copy Piko, and the models a serial number, a unique sticker applied at the factory or with a barcode, QR code etc. Same as on the box.

 

Retailer scans it at p.o.s. starts the warranty, confirms a sale and registers the item to the owner.

Any issues, refer back to the serial number, on the box, or the loco chassis etc...

It also acts as as a reference for insurance, helps the manufacturer trace the p.o.s being legitimate, and invalidates warranty where there’s multiple attempts to register, or if the item is resold secondhand.

 

The cost this... a website and a roll of stickers.

 

Piko has already done this, as has most of the electronics business for decades.

(Ive edited/ blacked out my particular number in the picture)

 

The handsome beast in question is a relatively obscure Polish prototype, that costs the less than a Bachmann class 37..., is a new tooling, and i’d wager sells a lot less than a Bachmann 37 and has superior detailing and haulage (but that’s due to intelligent use of traction tyres).

 

Edited September 11, 2019 by adb968008

[Ouroborus]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

The handsome beast in question is a relatively obscure Polish prototype, that costs the less than a Bachmann class 37..., is a new tooling, and i’d wager sells a lot less than a Bachmann 37 and has superior detailing and haulage (but that’s due to intelligent use of traction tyres).

 

 

Moving off topic, I might split hairs with you about 'handsome', but 'beast' I'll give you.  Its certainly a mighty fine looking loco.  I might feel the need to browse the piko websites....

[Guest JiLo]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

perhaps copy Piko, and the models a serial number, a unique sticker applied at the factory or with a barcode, QR code etc. Same as on the box.

 

Retailer scans it at p.o.s. starts the warranty, confirms a sale and registers the item to the owner.

Any issues, refer back to the serial number, on the box, or the loco chassis etc...

It also acts as as a reference for insurance, helps the manufacturer trace the p.o.s being legitimate, and invalidates warranty where there’s multiple attempts to register, or if the item is resold secondhand.

 

The cost this... a website and a roll of stickers.

 

Piko has already done this, as has most of the electronics business for decades.

(Ive edited/ blacked out my particular number in the picture)

 

The handsome beast in question is a relatively obscure Polish prototype, that costs the less than a Bachmann class 37..., is a new tooling, and i’d wager sells a lot less than a Bachmann 37 and has superior detailing and haulage (but that’s due to intelligent use of traction tyres).

 

Lovely loco for sure, part of their Expert range, 165 euro, so much the same cost at the 37.  Piko have their own factory which no doubt helps keep costs down a bit.  

 

Big fan of Piko products, especially the past few years, great models at decent prices - some of their coaches need to be seen to be believed.

 

I think you may be surprised at the amount of PKP modellers out there, esp in mainland Europe!    

Edited September 11, 2019 by JiLo

[Colin]

Is that the present day PKP livery? If so, what a refreshing change from some of the more garish “schemes” we’ve had to endure over here!

Nice looking loco (for a diesel).....

[robertcwp]

Sound on analogue DC (Gaugemaster non-feedback): https://youtu.be/4fH1WOkgZ3U

[Jim76]

12 hours ago, robertcwp said:

Sound on analogue DC (Gaugemaster non-feedback): https://youtu.be/4fH1WOkgZ3U

Sounds great! Could it run ok on an H&M Clipper?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Jim76

[AY Mod]

12 minutes ago, Jim76 said:

Could it run ok on an H&M Clipper?

 

Why risk a £600+ model on a 50 year-old controller?

[Jim76]

21 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Why risk a £600+ model on a 50 year-old controller?

Hence why I’m asking Andy. What are the risks?

[AY Mod]

Just now, Jim76 said:

What are the risks?

 

Museum electrics vs. 21st century electronics.

Poor electrical form delivery vs. attuned components.

 

Buy a new controller rather than your next loco.

[Zunnan]

On ‎18‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 10:46, AY Mod said:

 

Museum electrics vs. 21st century electronics.

Poor electrical form delivery vs. attuned components.

 

Buy a new controller rather than your next loco.

 

I'm not entirely sold on modern controllers being better than 'museum electrics'. I've encountered a modern PWM controller (Kato SX for info) literally fry coreless motors (Farish 4F, twice) where a good old Gaugemaster model D museum piece of 30+ year vintage is pretty much perfect, the only issue I have with the thing is the sun bleaching on it making it look like its been picked out of a skip...I do agree that some 50 year old half wave rectified beast is going to do more harm than good to a modern model, but some simple electronic additions like an audio amp style smoothing circuit to smooth the output will teach that old dog some new tricks that can make it less harmful than a modern PWM based controller.

[adb968008]

Aside the obvious,

Older controllers can invisibly corrode the mats internally, leading to loose wires. Until it breaks, blows or even potential to electrocute yourself, you cant be sure its internal condition, especially if its second hand.. you've no idea its previous storage environment.

I wouldn't advise opening it to check, just buy a new one.

 

more about older controllers than you will ever want to know here..

https://www.scottpages.net/ReviewOfControllers.html

 

Gaugemaster are good and have excellent warranties, I prefer handhelds myself, model W (not HH - Which has feedback) their cheap enough... I can follow the train around the room, I don't need to keep getting up, walking about, sit back down, especially for shunting etc.

M1 transformer is about £40, W about £35.

Edited September 19, 2019 by adb968008

[Zunnan]

Now that I can't argue with. My electrical engineering background puts me at an advantage on that front, but also means I cannot and will never advocate someone unqualified tinkers with the innards of what is potentially a very dangerous item. Adding a smoothing circuit to an otherwise functional H&M is one thing as it can be done without opening the controller, but it is well worth PAT testing older units periodically to confirm they're safe, especially if you're thinking of buying any metal cased controller second hand; I'd have that thing tested before I ever plugged it in. In the same breath, the same also applies to working with certain brand new products, especially the likes of Gaugemaster T type open transformers, which incidentally I'm building with right now for Bournville MRC to replace our 40something year old power supply...even then questions were (very briefly) raised as to why I wanted proper IP rated enclosures in which shall be mounted model T1 transformers rather than using ancient Triang units!

 

I'd side with a combi over a model W for the average Joe however, even though my preference is very much with the W. The W and M1 transformer (or T1/2/3/4 and homebrew enclosure, which MUST be made safe) is more costly and involved where the combi is very much more plug and play. And with a bit of thought a combi can be quite mobile, though not to the extent of modifying a W with an 8 foot lead!

 

I'll still always say you can teach an old controller new tricks mind you, but I'll add the following caveat (as well as clarifying my first post); you do need to know exactly what that involves and how to do it safely. If in doubt, have it tested and/or replace it.

[JSpencer]

So does all this mean that the Blue Pullman will not be suitable for my 1950s Trix Twin AC controlers?

 

More seriously, more recent electronics no longer use lead in the solder and I have found some early 2000s stuff developing faults from the solder joints (mostly zinc it seems) oxidising away. 

I have not seen this on railway controllers per-se but it is not like as if I am surrounded by people with them either.  

 

[Deltic]

On 11/09/2019 at 10:02, The Stationmaster said:

 If I bought a set and have a defective control unit I don't take the whole shooting match back to the retailer - I just take the defective bit.   It's then up to the retailer to sort that with the manufacturer and I somehow can't envisage an entire complete trainset box being sent back for attention to only a single part of its contents.

 

In some cases a Retailer will seek the whole set back, and replace everything.  However, most Model Railway shops will replace a single faulty item, then return that item to the Manufacturer (with Proof of Purchase) for replacement or a Credit Note - the latter can result in a set being split up, otherwise it cannot be sold as it has something missing. 

 

It really is down to how the Retailer deals with Faulty Items back to a Manufacturer, which could be within their Ts and Cs. 

[maico]

On 20/09/2019 at 16:39, Zunnan said:

Now that I can't argue with. My electrical engineering background puts me at an advantage on that front, but also means I cannot and will never advocate someone unqualified tinkers with the innards of what is potentially a very dangerous item. Adding a smoothing circuit to an otherwise functional H&M is one thing as it can be done without opening the controller, but it is well worth PAT testing older units periodically to confirm they're safe, especially if you're thinking of buying any metal cased controller second hand; I'd have that thing tested before I ever plugged it in. In the same breath, the same also applies to working with certain brand new products, especially the likes of Gaugemaster T type open transformers, which incidentally I'm building with right now for Bournville MRC to replace our 40something year old power supply...even then questions were (very briefly) raised as to why I wanted proper IP rated enclosures in which shall be mounted model T1 transformers rather than using ancient Triang units!

 

I'd side with a combi over a model W for the average Joe however, even though my preference is very much with the W. The W and M1 transformer (or T1/2/3/4 and homebrew enclosure, which MUST be made safe) is more costly and involved where the combi is very much more plug and play. And with a bit of thought a combi can be quite mobile, though not to the extent of modifying a W with an 8 foot lead!

 

I'll still always say you can teach an old controller new tricks mind you, but I'll add the following caveat (as well as clarifying my first post); you do need to know exactly what that involves and how to do it safely. If in doubt, have it tested and/or replace it.

 

Have you opened up a W to take  peek ?

I was wondering how it compared to a basic Trix I had a look at

 

 

[adb968008]

Its not very often you get the biggest box of a single model railway item, containing also the smallest item in the same delivery

 

Spot the Ruston...

Thanks to Derails, who've hung onto a great pile of stuff awaiting to send me whilst ive been on my travels... 15 items delivered this am.. trouble is its going to be a week until playtime.

 

(i estimate I could fit 192 Rustons in this box, packed safely, inc conflat, in an 8 row x 8 across x 3x high arrangement and still refit the lid properly)

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by adb968008

[GraemeWatson]

Has anyone transplanted the Western Pullman Zimo chips from the current set to the original Blue Pullman iteration, and if so did the end result work as expected?