Slipshod sellers

[Paul H Vigor]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

Paul

 

The more potential buyers who don't like eBay is all the better for those of us who do like it. I do find some sellers irritating, even dishonest in some cases but I just steer clear of them. Its much the same as going to a local general auction. There is a lot of tat that is really bin fodder, and a lot of good stuff at premium prices. But there still are a few Gems to be found

 

 

JS

 

You soon get trained to skim over most lots as your eyes seem to naturally filter out unwanted items and focus on more interesting things, which usually in turn lead to even better things. The odd hour which some may say as wasted browsing through targeted lots often finds interesting items with potential, just depends if others see the same potential.

I guess the issue becomes model-making potential or profit-making potential? It would have been nice to add an outside framed GWR Toad to my rolling stock.

[hayfield]

Paul

 

eBay just provide the platform, OK I think they could police the site better, but I have found that if you follow their rules and buy something which is not as advertised, they are quick to put things right. In fact because of various laws to do with both selling and finance, they have no option

 

I look for misleading lots, but in a different way. Where someone lists items which they have no idea about. House clearance firms/antique dealers are usually quite good. An example one dealer had 5 mixed lots of model railway items, none of the lots seemed to be sorted into related items, photos were clear buy just of piles of items and mostly miss described. I won 3 of them having to pay £115 in total. 

 

What I could recognise was at least 4 good motors, a couple of gearboxes, 14 loco wheels, and etched brass loco body an etched loco chassis, plus quite a few other bits which could include up to 3 loco kits

 

It took me 3 or four hours to sort out the items, which were put into 2 piles of wanted and not wanted. The unwanted items were relisted and sold on netting about £70, what I wanted now only cost £45 net. Comprising of one complete and one nearly complete loco kit, 5 decent motors, 4 gearboxes, 14 drivers and several spares for my 009 stock, and also some 4 mm scale cast items. 

 

The 2 best items were hidden, presentation extremely poor, description even worse. photos were sharp and just needed to be studied and educated guesses made. This is the other side of a misdescribed item(s) / slipshod seller. All I can say keep em coming 

[Crosland]

19 hours ago, Paul H Vigor said:

It would appear that some ebay traders are deeply confused by what constitutes a kit-built model railway item? We are shown a 'kit-built' model sat on a RTR Hornby box? And why are such items always described as 'Rare'!? It really gets my capra aegagrus hircus!

 

I'd buy it then file a not as described and make them pay the return postage. Maybe they will learn.

[Nearholmer]

This thread doesn't seem to distinguish between two, very different, sorts of sellers who mis-describe things on eBay: those who are ignorant; and those who knowingly tell fibs.

 

Both exist aplenty, and as Hayfield points out the former can be the source of some genuine bargains, especially non-specialist house-clearance bods, who are happy to turn a shilling on something, but don't have the time or inclination to become experts in all the hundreds of fields that they would need to in order to maximise their income.

 

Hyberbole is just hyperbole, and exists everywhere that things are sold, not just on eBay. 

[adb968008]

21 hours ago, JDW said:

When they include "rare" in the description though - does anyone ever search for "rare" I wonder? And what gems might one find if one simply searched the whole of eBay for "rare"?!

everything is rare on ebay.

 

 

I know its a parody of Back street boys.. just listen to the lyrics.

Edited May 11, 2020 by adb968008

[GWR-fan]

I recall many years ago when my wife was into crafting she saw a folder in which to place her craft work in.  The seller described the folder as "made from exotic timber".  When received the "exotic timber" was unfinished MDF board.  I questioned the seller as to her description and her response was that she had no idea of the timber that the item was made from and thought that exotic timber would attract a sale.   This was from a time when a seller was king on eBay and buyers were a nuisance to the eBay selling platform.  I posted a negative feedback (one of only two in thousands of transactions) only to have the seller challenge it.  I then spent the next two months going through numerous eBay seller dispute negotiations.  Finally,  worn out I decided to alter my feedback to positive simply to get a little peace of mind.

 

The downfall of eBay is that many sellers think that they are experts on everything that they sell and generally base their selling price on what others are selling items for,  not what items have actually sold for.  This corrupts the seller's anticipation of what his item is actually worth.  A seller in southern Queensland sells model railway items as new providing no model numbers and barely a few words of description.  The "new" items are actually twenty of more years old and not new old stock but taken from stripped down trainsets from Hornby's past "Made in Great Britain" production.  Another seller in Sydney who is actually a model shop proprietor sells old "Made in Great Britain" Hornby items as new and bases his eBay selling price on the price of a new current release item.  Those unaware of the item they are buying could be fooled into thinking they are purchasing a newly released item.  Some years ago I purchased a new Bachmann 45XX from a hobby retail store on eBay only to find that when received the item, while technically new, was actually at least six years old at the time and was pre-DCC ready.  Technically,  the seller was correct as the stock was new in that it had not been sold at retail level previously,  but morally the seller did not present all the facts providing scant information on the item description.

 

As regards buyers then I have been particularly "lucky" as in general my sales have been to people who are generally knowledgeable in what they are buying.  Some though are their own worst enemies and finish up on my blocked bidders' list.    I recall one buyer who was questioning my postage details and wondering how an item would be delivered by post.  The item was a model LGB railway crane.  The buyer thought he was buying a full size 1/1 scale crane weighing many tonnes.   Another buyer upon receiving an invoice from me,  denied emphatically that he had not purchased the item, refused to pay and did not buy model railway items,  although his eBay name was a combination of a railway operating company CME and a "black 5" locomotive cab number.  He made my blocked bidders' list.   Several weeks later he messaged me complaining that he was unable to buy a model locomotive that I had listed as being blocked he was unable to purchase the item.  I relented allowing him to buy the item only to have him then not supply feedback. 

 

It is not just sellers who might be lazy and irresponsible.  

[hayfield]

eBay users are a mirror of our society. I do to a certain extent agree with you about descriptions from non-retailers stating something is new when clearly it should be deemed as second hand but unused. However I thrive on eBayers being unaware of what they are selling. I look for badly described poorly presented items, some of my best finds have been from the house clearance trade purporting to be traders.

 

As for items being listed at high prices, just ignore them. If some joker values his items at more than I do, so be it. I just wait for someone else to list it at a competitive price. This is how commerce works.

 

I list the items I sell at the minimum I am willing to sell items for, I politely refuse any offers below my own valuation. in 17+ years I have only not sold 1 item, which is a large old open frame 12 volt motor. I have never needed to ban anyone or to the best of my knowledge been banned. I try to treat all my buyers as I would like to be treated. For me if a buyer is unhappy I would rather take it back and refund, providing I think the person is being genuine, but I am not running a business.   

 

As a buyer providing the seller has been honest, if I buy the odd duff item it was my bad decision, these have been more than compensated by the good decisions I have made. I make my decisions on what I see, only checking the written description to back up what I can see. If a seller has been less than honest I will return the item. In the end with all auctions its buyer beware !!!

 

As for feedback as a buyer I expect to give feedback first, as a seller I give feedback once the buyer has.

[MartinWales]

On 11/05/2020 at 10:19, hayfield said:

Paul

 

eBay just provide the platform, OK I think they could police the site better, but I have found that if you follow their rules and buy something which is not as advertised, they are quick to put things right. In fact because of various laws to do with both selling and finance, they have no option

 

I look for misleading lots, but in a different way. Where someone lists items which they have no idea about. House clearance firms/antique dealers are usually quite good. An example one dealer had 5 mixed lots of model railway items, none of the lots seemed to be sorted into related items, photos were clear buy just of piles of items and mostly miss described. I won 3 of them having to pay £115 in total. 

 

What I could recognise was at least 4 good motors, a couple of gearboxes, 14 loco wheels, and etched brass loco body an etched loco chassis, plus quite a few other bits which could include up to 3 loco kits

 

It took me 3 or four hours to sort out the items, which were put into 2 piles of wanted and not wanted. The unwanted items were relisted and sold on netting about £70, what I wanted now only cost £45 net. Comprising of one complete and one nearly complete loco kit, 5 decent motors, 4 gearboxes, 14 drivers and several spares for my 009 stock, and also some 4 mm scale cast items. 

 

The 2 best items were hidden, presentation extremely poor, description even worse. photos were sharp and just needed to be studied and educated guesses made. This is the other side of a misdescribed item(s) / slipshod seller. All I can say keep em coming 

Had something similar recently. The seller had piled a load of wagon kits and related items on what looked like a kitchen table and taken several photos of the same pile from different angles. Like you I had to make an educated guess as to the contents and what was actually being offered for sale, which according to the images was about 30 items.

 

Imagine my delight when after probably the worst day ever in my working career, I arrived home quite late, to find a large box which was three quarters full of items. 85 wagon kits (including several rare D&S), 38 sets of Maygib wheels, buffers, axleboxes, bearings, 2 J72 Percy chassis, four LNER loco bodies,  and buffers stops amongst others! All for £67 plus £3 postage!! RESULT!!!

 

As you say above, 'Keep 'em coming'!

Edited May 16, 2020 by MartinWales

[hayfield]

Martin

 

Wow that was a good spot and I guess the unwanted items were sold on making it even cheaper

 

Trouble is I keep forgetting what I have, just bought a K's Terrier, just because it had an etched chassis (and a set of Romfords and motor) The chassis is a Branchlines and not a Percy, knew I had another unbuilt one, only to find I had two unbuilt ones and another of a K's kit I have had for years, 

 

Its not just these house clearers that get it wrong, once bought 2 RTR locos with etched chassis from Rails for £30 each, both had Portescap motors.Regarding the M7 I thanked the chap who sold it, he said it came with other things which he wanted. I guess its only worth spending time tidying it up if you want it, but I am certain had a few extra minuets spent taking decent photos would have been very worth while, bu I am not complaining

[MartinWales]

Always worth doing the things you advocate John! I use it as you mention, kind of a hobby almost.

 

As you quite rightly say, always gone to have a decent score like that, but this one was an exception, the kind of one that comes along only every 4/5 years or so

 

Do you reckon in years to come TV will have us as presenters on 'Cash On Ebay' or 'Ebay Road Trip'? Maybe even 'Flog It on Ebay'?

 

Move over Paul Martin!!  

[hayfield]

 

I don't know about other categories, but model railways do lend themselves being traded this way, as they are easily sent through normal postal systems and the demise of model shops. As you say its very addictive but can be a complete time waster, I have another little gem in the post to me, a similar tank loco from the same stable but a different region. 2p cheaper than the M7, the photos are very clear. Looks like the main body has come away from the footplate and some minor damage, but even if I have to but a new footplate its a steal. There is also a second spare etched chassis which I can use on a Wills kit I have, made by someone else, painted and lined exceptionally  well but let down by a hand built replacement chassis.

 

Only one complaint, can't find any cheap High Level gearboxes. Looks like I will have to spend my pennies with Mr Gibbon

 

On a different note the Terrier is a small loco last night I bought 2 each of a 10 mm mini coreless and a 12 normal motors, £8 all in inc postage. Just though I would have a dabble  with a terrier. I will have to ask what electrical component I need to step down the voltage

[cb900f]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

As for feedback as a buyer I expect to give feedback first, as a seller I give feedback once the buyer has.

Not sure I agree there John.

 

The buyer has to my way of thinking fulfilled their part of the contract by bidding,purchasing the item and paying the postage.

The seller has fulfilled their part of the contract when said item has been delivered and the buyer is happy with the description.

Therefore my thoughts are that the seller should give feedback first.

In addition as I have just sold a number of items , if the seller gives feedback first then it gives an indication that the seller is confident that the buyer will be happy with their purchase and is a genuine seller

Also if you give feedback first , the seller may not give return feed back as has happened to me on a fair number of sales.

 

Pete

[hayfield]

Pete

 

The simple reason is I do contact all my buyers twice prior to them receiving the item, firstly to thank them for buying it, secondly to inform the item is on its way.  I used to do what you say and just got fed up with many not bothering to reciprocate. It seems that many sellers do the same.

 

I give feedback to report the service I have received and to confirm its arrival, doesn't bother me if a seller does the same of differs. Each to their own

 

   

 

[Crosland]

1 hour ago, cb900f said:

The seller has fulfilled their part of the contract when said item has been delivered and the buyer is happy with the description.

 

How do you know the buyer is happy until you get their feedback, whether through the "feedback" system or other means?

[cb900f]

Because if they are unhappy they will either contact the seller or notify E bay.

 

Pete

[cb900f]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

Pete

 

The simple reason is I do contact all my buyers twice prior to them receiving the item, firstly to thank them for buying it, secondly to inform the item is on its way.  I used to do what you say and just got fed up with many not bothering to reciprocate. It seems that many sellers do the same.

 

I give feedback to report the service I have received and to confirm its arrival, doesn't bother me if a seller does the same of differs. Each to their own

 

   

 

Agree with you there John. I only differ in that I thank and notify them that the item is on it's way in the same e mail.

 

Pete

[hayfield]

1 minute ago, cb900f said:

Because if they are unhappy they will either contact the seller or notify E bay.

 

Pete

 

As it happens about the last thing I do is look at a sellers feedback, if I buy a nice item for a good price who cares

 

If I have an issue with an item, eBay's decision will depend on the facts, not the eBayers reputation, some times negative feed back may just be sour grapes from the buyer

[Hal Nail]

On 11/05/2020 at 10:19, hayfield said:

I look for misleading lots, but in a different way. Where someone lists items which they have no idea about. 

 

People who cant spell are my particular favourites. I got a decent saddle for my bike of a type id been after for ages. Found it completely by accident and no one else ever bid, which I assume was down to no one else finding it.

 

Accepting that the onus is on the buyer to check carefully, one thing that does cheese me off regularly is the very widespread use of "brand new" for items someone has bought then decided to shift on.

 

[hayfield]

I had a similar occurrence when searching for a Peco 0-16.5 loco, somehow my search criteria altered from  model trains ti all category. Tucked away in some obscure category (knitting or something) weas 2 unbuilt loco kits with chassis, got them for £30 or £40 each no one else was bidding

[rockershovel]

It’s very difficult now, to find real bargains. The steady blare of “sell your old rubbish for top money” programmes on tv has killed that RIGHT off, the general view now is that anything is worth money to someone. 

 

I got some nice Victorian kitchen chairs while I was in Plymouth, from a house clearance contractor who just wanted a quick sale for these items, they weren’t worth the space in his premises. 

 

I do notice that the flow of 3-Rail O Gauge has pretty much, dried up. Last year I was buying nice, usable locos for £100 or so, not now; boxcars and hoppers for £10-20, now asking £25-75. Presumably those cupboards have been cleared. 

 

 

[hayfield]

In one way you are spot on but another perhaps not

 

You are correct that many value their items at top dollar, many as you say ask unrealistic values. But do they get top dollar ? not that often

 

However in days gone by perfectly good items would have just been dumped in the bin, in the past many a good model, rare kit or valuable tools and gauges just gone to land fill. now people seek buyers, not necessarily top dollar but a reasonable price

 

You will also find a rare kit comes on to the market, two or more fight it out and setting a high price, this encourages some to empty their cupboards, but subsequent sales reduce in value and they come back to reasonable prices. For instance K's 24/52/72xx regularly fetching £100+, now you can find good models for £40 to £50,  I got one with a Bulldog Motor and Romford wheels for mid £45's

 

I did see a spike in prices at the beginning of lock down, prices have since stabilized, Last night I bought a Southeastern Finecast GWR City, built with wheels motor etc for less that I could buy the loco's wheels for, this is the fourth loco I have bought at what I would say is a silly price in a 12 day period. The first two have been delivered and have been better than I expected. Granted things are not on the whole as cheap as they were a few years back on eBay, but they should we expect to get items on the cheap? You can if you put the time in and are patient . 

[rockershovel]

Well, yes. I wouldn’t say there was NOTHING out there, but it takes a lot of perseverance and sometimes, serendipity to find it. 

 

 

[hayfield]

You are right there, I quite often find things as a result of looking at something interesting, then either look at the sellers other items or the other items eBay suggest further down the listing, usually where the description is vague

 

Anything that is easy to find will be found by many others, especially during lock down when people have time on their hands, also many more are able to bid during normal working times. I did pick up a bargain at 4pm on Saturday, perhaps everyone was enjoying the good weather

 

 

[John M Upton]

I haven't managed to win anything by auction for months now, N gauge, even tatty old stuff has started going for crazy prices in the last few weeks with bidders piling in during the last few seconds even at normally quiet times like early weekday mornings etc.

[hayfield]

I think any gauge other than 00 or scale which differs from 4 mm RTR has a seemingly premium, not to say some of the 00 RTR is also fetching higher prices

 

The third of my 4 buys arrived this morning, needs a little TLC but evens has a spare etched chassis