Ellis Clark Trains Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 (edited) Evening all, Hope this new post finds you well. As many of you will have seen at Telford today, we made a rather big announcement at stand No. 9. For those who haven't been to see us today, may I present to you our next project with Darstaed... The Stanier Class 5 4-6-0, AKA The "Black 5" Expected Q1 of 2021 and priced at £949 for the DC/DCC Ready versions, and £1,199 for the DCC sound/synchro smoke versions. Our model will cover the long firebox version from the batch of 227 locomotives built by Armstrong Whitworth in 1936/7. This model, produced by Darstaed and available exclusively through ourselves, promises to boast a very impressive specification. The majority of the model will be constructed from super finescale die-cast, having been carefully researched and designed using works drawings, original photos and preserved examples. To ensure this model meets our high standards, they will all be fitted with state of the art ABC gearboxes, Maxon motors and for the DCC versions, Zimo sound systems. SPECIFICATIONS Super detailed die-cast construction Genuine ABC Helical Gearbox - built, fitted and tested in the UK Maxon motor with ball bearing racers Super detailed cab Compensating axles Removable working loco lamps Firebox glow DCC ready STATE OF THE ART DCC VERSIONS Zimo MX699 Decoder Boom box double speaker (located in the loco) Synchronised sound and smoke Zimo exclusive sound project with 20+ functions AVAILABLE VERSIONS D11-1 - LMS Lined, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-2 - LMS Lined, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-3 - LMS Lined, '5225', Welded Tender D11-4 - LMS Black, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-5 - LMS Black, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-6 - LMS Black, '5289' Welded Tender D11-7 - Early BR Lined, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-8 - Early BR Lined, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-9 - Early BR Lined, '45344', Welded Tender D11-10 - Late BR Lined, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-11 - Late BR Lined, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-12 - Late BR Lined, '45337', Welded Tender D11-13 - BR Black, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-14 - BR Black, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-15 - BR Black, '45305', Welded Tender D11-16 - LMS Lined, '5428' 'Eric Treacy', Welded Tender FIRST CAD PICTURES FOR WELDED TENDER To announce this loco, we also commissioned Alan Gunston to paint us this superb painting, inspired by the style of many railway posters So there we have it, what do you all think to this latest announcement? All variants listed above are now available to pre-oder. All the best, Ellis. Edited December 15, 2019 by Ellis Clark Trains 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Wow. It’s great to see O gauge booming. Good luck! Paul 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Adrian Stevenson Posted August 31, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2019 Fantastic! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Wish it success but we must be a well heeled lot to be able to afford a lot like this. Where did we leave the less fortunate behind who might have liked to share our hobby? Brian. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted September 1, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2019 If the money changing hands at Telford over the weekend and the people leaving clutching big boxes are anything to go by, there are enough people willing to pay for such models to make them viable. You get a lot more model for your folding notes in 7mm and you don't need as many to fill a given space. So one 7mm model at £1000 is no worse than 5 at £200 each in 4mm, fills more space and looks much more impressive. Now that almost every single class of any significance has been covered RTR in 4mm scale, it seems that attention has shifted to 7mm. Only a few years ago there was no RTR 7mm stuff available. It is lovely to see that the scale is making such a come back. I won't be buying one (they didn't run on the GCR before WW1!) but I wish everyone well with the venture, which I am sure will encourage a few others to dip their toes in the 7mm world. 5 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, brianusa said: Wish it success but we must be a well heeled lot to be able to afford a lot like this. Where did we leave the less fortunate behind who might have liked to share our hobby? Brian. Over the pond, you may not have realised that it's now not unusual to be asked to pay £250 plus for a OO model with DCC/sound - and that is often just for a 'box on wheels'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted September 1, 2019 Administrators Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, brianusa said: Wish it success but we must be a well heeled lot to be able to afford a lot like this. Where did we leave the less fortunate behind who might have liked to share our hobby? Brian. We are talking model railways, NOT an essential like food and water. No-one is forced to buy any particular model. Presumably, you think Ferrari should stop making cars because some can't afford them? The only person who loses out if they misjudge the market is the person taking the risk by funding the project. My guess is that in this case, they know the market well enough to know if will sell. 5 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2019 I have recently commissioned a competent RMwebber to build and paint a humble 4mm 4-4-0 kit for me. I do not expect to see the model this side of 2021, and am not expecting to pay a penny less than is being asked in the present 7mm announcement. The Black Five strikes me as excellent value. 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted September 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Pint of Adnams said: Over the pond, you may not have realised that it's now not unusual to be asked to pay £250 plus for a OO model with DCC/sound - and that is often just for a 'box on wheels'. Do you live in the USA? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted September 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 31/08/2019 at 17:59, Ellis Clark Trains said: Evening all, Hope this new post finds you well. As many of you will have seen at Telford today, we made a rather big announcement at stand No. 9. For those who haven't been to see us today, may I present to you our next project with Darstaed... The Stanier Class 5 4-6-0, AKA The "Black 5" Expected Q1 of 2021 and priced at £949 for the DC/DCC Ready versions, and £1,199 for the DCC sound/synchro smoke versions. Our model will cover the long firebox version from the batch of 227 locomotives built by Armstrong Whitworth in 1936/7. This model, produced by Darstaed and available exclusively through ourselves, promises to boast a very impressive specification. The majority of the model will be constructed from super finescale die-cast, having been carefully researched and designed using works drawings, original photos and preserved examples. To ensure this model meets our high standards, they will all be fitted with state of the art ABC gearboxes, Maxon motors and for the DCC versions, Zimo sound systems. SPECIFICATIONS Super detailed die-cast construction Genuine ABC Helical Gearbox - built, fitted and tested in the UK Maxon motor with ball bearing racers Super detailed cab Compensating axles Removable working loco lamps Firebox glow DCC ready STATE OF THE ART DCC VERSIONS Zimo MX699 Decoder Boom box double speaker (located in the loco) Synchronised sound and smoke Zimo exclusive sound project with 20+ functions AVAILABLE VERSIONS D11-1 - LMS Lined, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-2 - LMS Lined, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-3 - LMS Lined, '5225', Welded Tender D11-4 - LMS Black, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-5 - LMS Black, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-6 - LMS Black, '5289' Welded Tender D11-7 - Early BR Lined, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-8 - Early BR Lined, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-9 - Early BR Lined, '45344', Welded Tender D11-10 - Late BR Lined, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-11 - Late BR Lined, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-12 - Late BR Lined, '45337', Welded Tender D11-13 - BR Black, Un-numbered, Welded Tender D11-14 - BR Black, Un-numbered, Riveted Tender D11-15 - BR Black, '45305', Welded Tender D11-16 - LMS Lined, '5428' 'Eric Treacy', Welded Tender FIRST CAD PICTURES FOR WELDED TENDER To announce this loco, we also commissioned Alan Gunston to paint us this superb painting, inspired by the style of many railway posters So there we have it, what do you all think to this latest announcement? All variants listed above are now available to pre-oder. All the best, Ellis. Great work, Ellis. Hope that I can find some cash for one of those. Will take a look at your website to see the reservation conditions. Looking at the CAD, I see that you have made the sensible choice of leaving the tender empty. Will it be delivered with a small pack of crushed coal or do we have to source our own? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pint of Adnams Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 hours ago, griffgriff said: Do you live in the USA? No, that is why I am well acquainted with the cost of model railway products in the UK. I was always amazed at the low relative cost of all sorts of products in the US cf the UK; back in the day when the US$ was closer to 4 to the £, and even when it was around 2.40US$ - the price tags were pretty close to parity - e.g. 50US$ equivalent to £50 - just look at how Apple prices their products today, we are finally getting a bargain! I have however worked for two US companies and spent time there on business and on vacation... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted September 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Pint of Adnams said: No, that is why I am well acquainted with the cost of model railway products in the UK. I was always amazed at the low relative cost of all sorts of products in the US cf the UK; back in the day when the US$ was closer to 4 to the £, and even when it was around 2.40US$ - the price tags were pretty close to parity - e.g. 50US$ equivalent to £50 - just look at how Apple prices their products today, we are finally getting a bargain! I have however worked for two US companies and spent time there on business and on vacation... Sorry my sarcasm was lost on you.... I can’t help myself. ‘across the pond’ was your phrase I was picking up on.... there are £260 OO sound equipped locos in the UK Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) BrianUSA lives in the US. The across the pond was relative to him (I.e. in the U.K.) Edited September 2, 2019 by Talltim 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Having dabbled in O gauge a few years ago the price seems about right. A similar price to a kit from someone like DJH once you have factored in things like wheels, motor, gearbox, etc. And not that dissimilar to the prices of those partworks such as Build The Flying Scotsman or currently Luke Skywalker's X Wing for £9.99 over 100 weeks plus extras such as binders. https://www2.deagostini.com/uk/products/build-your-own-x-wing/GI2130000000?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpLzx75Cy5AIVRLTtCh2B0witEAAYASAAEgL5-fD_BwE Alas a Stanier Five is far too big for any 7MM layout I can ever contemplate building. One of the reasons I didn't participate in the Mallard or FS partworks. Very nice, but they would just be shelf models or crawling a few feet with a couple of coaches. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted September 2, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, brianusa said: Wish it success but we must be a well heeled lot to be able to afford a lot like this. Where did we leave the less fortunate behind who might have liked to share our hobby? Brian. We haven't - people who can afford to buy locos like this are in the minority, but almost all hobbies are off the agenda if one is truly skint. Participation in this hobby is about the art of the attainable; cutting ones garment according to the cloth available. Finescale O main line modelling may be out of the question for many, if not most, of us. In my case, it's more through lack of space than lack of money, but it's by no means the only game in town. Go to swapmeets and you'll come across talented enthusiasts with very little cash who have put together whole OO layouts over a couple of years for half what that loco will cost, and having bought almost nothing new. John Edited September 2, 2019 by Dunsignalling 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Clark Trains Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 7 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Great work, Ellis. Hope that I can find some cash for one of those. Will take a look at your website to see the reservation conditions. Looking at the CAD, I see that you have made the sensible choice of leaving the tender empty. Will it be delivered with a small pack of crushed coal or do we have to source our own? Hi Joseph, Pre-orders, you'll be happy to know, are free and "non-binding". Currently working on coal for the tender - rest assured, in the words of Andries when I asked the question "of course we will supply coal for the tenders, what else would it run on?!" - not sure yet how this will be done, but it will :). All the best, Ellis. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianusa Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Having read the responses so far, its good to know that there are happily those who can readily afford expensive trains which keep Darstaed and ACE in business along with Ferrari and other expensive marques. I have a number of what might be called expensive trains; if you collect Hornby tinplate as I do, most aren't cheap, but a lot depends on where ones discretionary income goes. Some like Ferraris, others like trains; we have an old car so I buy trains. I do live over here in the US as my location indicates and if Hattons ads and prices are to believed, have some idea of train prices back home in the UK. Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeseerider Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 13 hours ago, brianusa said: Having read the responses so far, its good to know that there are happily those who can readily afford expensive trains which keep Darstaed and ACE in business along with Ferrari and other expensive marques. I have a number of what might be called expensive trains; if you collect Hornby tinplate as I do, most aren't cheap, but a lot depends on where ones discretionary income goes. Some like Ferraris, others like trains; we have an old car so I buy trains. I do live over here in the US as my location indicates and if Hattons ads and prices are to believed, have some idea of train prices back home in the UK. Brian. Hi Brian, I would argue these prices are fine for a Ready-to-Run O-gauge finescale steam loco of a medium sized steam loco. They are similar to Lionel Legacy steam loco prices of a similar size. Maybe even a bit cheaper. Lionel Legacy is mostly plastic too, although they do have an arguably superior control system compared to DCC with their Legacy Command. They make an interesting comparison. Usually, but not always, the latest ready to run O gauge finescale locos offered by British companies do have a higher level of detail than the US equivalents. So it's not always fair to compare prices between the two either. Also none of this is Ferrari level O gauge. You would need to look elsewhere for that! This is mainstream RTR right here. There is always HO and OO scale for those who cannot afford O scale. There is clearly enough of us buying O-scale to keep the market ticking along. So, I don't see a problem here. It's all relative - just look at Gauge 1 finescale typical prices. It's great we have all these different scales still being produced and each scale also at different quality levels for different markets. I love the variety, and there really is something for everyone. Good luck to Darstaed and Ellis Clark Trains. I hope it goes well. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinglingGeordie Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Looking at models of the 3F, the 57XX, the 08 and the Terrier a price of £200 for an O gauge tank engine is a good entry level ready to run loco. £500 for a two bogie diesel from Heljan. The planned A3 and A4 look like they will be for sale at around £800, and will be in plastic afaik. Under £1000 for ametal 460 and tender is not bad. Of course if you can kitbuild then you can save quite a bit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 (edited) A massively important difference between the UK and US prices that is very definitely relevant is that we pay a lot more tax on purchases than does a customer in the US, and we have far superior public services partly as a result. To quote Bill Bryson as accurately as I can from memory “I’d rather live in a country that has the NHS than one which holds annual welcome-days in rural post offices”. If you import a US model, and pay VAT, it comes out pretty close in price to a model of comparable size and complexity from one of the UK “designer/commissioner” outfits. I speak with certainty, because i’m Awaiting the arrival of a new 0 gauge toy from the US right now. I’ve factored postage cost on an import out of the above thinking, because postage from the US is amazingly expensive, but isn’t really the issue under discussion. And, of course, exchange rate fluctuations make all comparisons rather approximate. Edited September 3, 2019 by Nearholmer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 59 minutes ago, JinglingGeordie said: Looking at models of the 3F, the 57XX, the 08 and the Terrier a price of £200 for an O gauge tank engine is a good entry level ready to run loco. £500 for a two bogie diesel from Heljan. The planned A3 and A4 look like they will be for sale at around £800, and will be in plastic afaik. Under £1000 for ametal 460 and tender is not bad. Of course if you can kitbuild then you can save quite a bit. Not really. Even simple locomotives from manufacturers like Jim McGeown's Connoisseur Models , Slaters and Springside are more expensive than any RTR when you consider wheels, motor and gears. How much for a RTR Jinty? I've seen them going for about £180. The Connoisseur version is £318 complete. Then you have to build it and replace a few parts such as buffers to make a really detailed version. I wouldn't' expect change from £400 when completed. I built one twenty odd years ago when the kit cost about £70 and wheels were about £10 per axle. So about £150 complete. http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Loco Kit Pages/LMS Jinty.html Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinglingGeordie Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Fair comment Steamport - I'm sure Connoisseur have taken a knock on their 3Fs since Dapols came out, and likewise anyone selling GWR Pannier tanks. Regrettably there are some tank engines, and indeed locomotives that will never come out in rtr O gauge (I bet someone said that in the 1970s about OO gauge). I will be delighted to dine on my hat with brown sauce when a rtr Barlcay pug and something Glasgow and South Western comes out in rtr O. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted September 5, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 5, 2019 38 minutes ago, JinglingGeordie said: I will be delighted to dine on my hat with brown sauce Forgive my ignorance but are you suggesting that hat eating etiquette dictates that sauce should not normally accompany one’s flambéd chapeau? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 I heard someone was working on an 0 gauge Black 5 but wasn't knowing where it was coming from. I don't model 0 gauge but wish you all the best with the venture and will be sure it is a success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted September 5, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2019 55 minutes ago, Hal Nail said: Forgive my ignorance but are you suggesting that hat eating etiquette dictates that sauce should not normally accompany one’s flambéd chapeau? It might depend what the hat had been flambed in. If in Calvados (or Somerset Cider Brandy), an apple sauce, custard or cream might be very acceptable. To be honest, I had always believed that hats were consumed raw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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