Blue Pullman Triang Set

[ianlei]

Hi,

I have some older items in my loft and i'm wondering if they are part of a Blue Pullman set? I have a triang pullman loco, dummy and coach, some old track with pointed fishplates with the name 'Marx Toys' on the sleepers and a Airfix controller.....i think i remember that when i was younger the pullman i had was a set with track, controller..etc, but as they are all different makes am i remembering wrong?! If these are all part of a set, do people want the track and controller too these days or is it just the rollingstock that is wanted due to the lack of a modern version?

Any help or info would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Ian

[andyman7]

Hi,

I have some older items in my loft and i'm wondering if they are part of a Blue Pullman set? I have a triang pullman loco, dummy and coach, some old track with pointed fishplates with the name 'Marx Toys' on the sleepers and a Airfix controller.....i think i remember that when i was younger the pullman i had was a set with track, controller..etc, but as they are all different makes am i remembering wrong?! If these are all part of a set, do people want the track and controller too these days or is it just the rollingstock that is wanted due to the lack of a modern version?

Any help or info would be much appreciated!

Thanks

Ian

Unless it's part of a complete original boxed set (and it isn't if the the bits you have are not marked Tri-ang), the track and controller are worth buttons, but provided the train itself is complete and in reasonable condition it's definately worth some money with the centre coach. The centre coaches are actually in more demand than the power and dummy cars - there aren't enough of them about in relation to the surviving power cars.

[96701]

I wouldn't get my hopes up for a while regarding people wanting B*** P****** stock judging by the prices currently on

ebay.

 

You'd also be hard pressed to sell a very old controller (safety and all that).

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[ianlei]

Hi,

Thanks for your replies, they've been helpful.

I just wanted to know exactly what i had incase it was beneficial to try and sell it altogether, but i can see now it isn't. The pullman isn't in great condition anyway, so i wasn't hoping for much money anyway!

Thanks again for your info and advice!

Ian

[Il Grifone]

A centre car usually makes at least £20 (the blue/white version being preferred to the blue/grey, despite the latter being rarer) and the power and trailer about the same. In good condition you could expect £40.

 

http://collectables.shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=blue+pullman&_sacat=1&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_dmpt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&_odkw=dublo+%28bogie%2Cpony%29&_osacat=0&bkBtn=

 

Track and controller is just a matter of luck, whether you meet the right collector or not.

[chertsey chopper]

It is concievable that at least the track may have been bought around the same time as the Pullman set, or within a few years always presuming it was new at the time...as it breaks down something like this...

The first batch of Blue Midland Pullmans had Blue front ends and were made in 1963-67. The next type produced had yellow fronted ends and were made in 68-0n and the last type were grey-blue livery in 72.

I think the last ones produced were around 74 and one or more earlier liveries were IIRC repeated at least once in the interim years.

Lines Brothers, the company that owned Rovex in which Triang was manufacturing Trains broke up and the train manufacturing side was sold off to a company called Dunbee Combex Marx in '71. Airfix were around then, and from the mid to late seventies started manufacturing ready to run trains but with a much higher detail level.

Rosebud, acquired by Airfix in 1962 had already been making the Blue Pullman in kit form, under the name of Kitmaster which could be motorised by Kitmaster motor bogies. This was and is regarded by some as superior, especially as they made the kitchen cars. Prices for these are usually higher as they are highly sought by collectors but usually as unmade, in their original boxes. Hope that helps. Il Grifone has given the values but more info can be obtained by reading Ramsay's catalogue.

 

Jules

[ianlei]

Thanks for the link Il Grifone and the estimations/values they seem to be selling for, that's really helpful, thanks. Thanks also Jules for the info, apart from being helpful to know what era the items may have come from, it's interesting to learn abit about the history of them and also all the company changes at that time which i wasn't aware of!

Thanks again for taking the time to reply!

Ian

[The Stationmaster]

A lot of 30 Kitmaster coach kits, including sufficient Pullmans to make up a Midland Pullman set (but probably not all the correct type of cars? - I didn't check through quite that far) went at auction a couple of weeks back for a total cost of a few quid short of £300.

 

I bet they'll be going for a lot more than a tenner each when they come up on Ebay

[chertsey chopper]

That price doesn't surprise me Mike, prices at certain events in different areas do vary quite alot.

I got about £5.00 average each when I sold my ready-made Kitmasters on ebay three or four years ago, however the unmade kits in boxes went for much more. The motor bogies, I had two in boxes...and the interiors went at a Train Fair stall I did at an Ian Shave event in Slough. My Triang Blue Midland Pullman consisted of the two playworn motor cars one better than the other, and three "centre" cars which were all in fair condition and as none of it was boxed the lot went for about £128.00 IIRC on ebay back in 2003.

Current valuations are iffy as most seem to think it wise to get shot of them because of the so-called imminence of a supposed new model about which there is much speculation, not to mention their performance on modern track that needs some wheel grinding or swapping work to make them really GO!.

Recently Hornby tested the waters with the Class47 Dionysus pulling the new sets but they didn't exactly set the world alight as they can be picked up for £80-£90.00 for the lot. As for the replacement for R555? who knows?

 

jules

[Pennine MC]

Current valuations are iffy as most seem to think it wise to get shot of them because of the so-called imminence of a supposed new model about which there is much speculation

Brilliant

[chertsey chopper]

Brilliant

And to you too!!!

[Colin_McLeod]

I have just bought this on EBay. I know Triang-Hornby did additional centre coaches for the blue/white and the blue grey Pullman but did they ever do additional centre coaches for the reversed livery grey/blue?

 

 

[kevinlms]

3 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said:

I have just bought this on EBay. I know Triang-Hornby did additional centre coaches for the blue/white and the blue grey Pullman but did they ever do additional centre coaches for the reversed livery grey/blue?

 

 

Yes, between 1969-71. Probably hard to find, not least because there are far more 'normal' liveried ones around.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=477

[Colin_McLeod]

Thanks Kevin.

 

I'll keep a look out then, but meanwhile will run this as a three car set.

[kevinlms]

1 hour ago, Colin_McLeod said:

Thanks Kevin.

 

I'll keep a look out then, but meanwhile will run this as a three car set.

It doesn't help that they used the R426 code for multiple liveries and even Mk3 coaches.

[GWR-fan]

It took me several years but I was able to source two power cars and four coaches in mint condition.  I fitted finer scale wheels to the non driven bogies on all cars plus detailed the interiors even picking out the crockery on the tables.  Extra pickups were fitted to the trailing bogie on the powered car.   I fitted the best running driven bogie that I had.   While my set did not have specific kitchen cars the overall effect was worth the effort.   I did similar to an original livery Blue Pullman as well.  I went through a lot of rubbish before finally sourcing all the cars that I needed.   I found many online auction sellers to be very optimistic about the quality of the coaches that they were selling.   While not exactly prototypical they do scrub up quite well for a little vintage retro running.

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

This is what I did to my Grey/Blue Pullman with some extras from eBay:

 

 

Cut and shut Philistine that I am !

 

Gibbo.

[GWR-fan]

Gibbo,

           that is cut n' shut dedication down to the correct number of windows on the power car for a Midland Pullman.   The Tri-ang model of the power car of cause being the second class car for the Western Pullman, having three seated windows.

[Gibbo675]

11 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

Gibbo,

           that is cut n' shut dedication down to the correct number of windows on the power car for a Midland Pullman.   The Tri-ang model of the power car of cause being the second class car for the Western Pullman, having three seated windows.

Hi GWR,

 

Thanks for that, here is a brief description of what I did:

 

The rear section of the power cars have had part of a first class parlour car grafted onto them and the kitchen cars are made from the other end of the parlour car and parts of the guards section of a power car about the double doors, the first class parlour cars are unaltered.

The underframe details have been altered variously using bits of underframe details suitably repositioned and with the odd scratch built bit here and there.

For windows I used Finescale's flush-glaze, the toilet and kitchen windows were abraded with fine wet and dry and also the edges of the window apertures were painted black which gives the representation of the window rubbers.

The bogies are altered Hornby Mk2 for the parlour and inner end of the kitchen cars with Lima class 73 bogies for the power cars and outer ends of the kitchen cars.

Paint is Railmatch and the transfers are HMRS.

 

I must point out only half of the set is pictured, I did build the whole thing !

 

Gibbo.

[Il Grifone]

Some of my Pullman set have Kitmaster bogies (part of job lots), but they are in rather short supply. I acquired a kitchen Car made from a paper overlay. This needed tidying up but now looks quite reasonable. Obviously I need another one and a couple of Second Class Cars... I was considering fitting the motor bogies to the Kitchen cars. I'm not too convinced as to the trackholding of seven cars being pushed from behind or, as is probably necessary for sufficient power, one at each end. I recall that more than five cars were beyond the capabilities of a single bogie when I tried it years ago, but it may have been a duff bogie of course.

 

Somehow I acquired one of the later centre cars with the recessed windows. It was allocated to make the other Kitchen car....

 

Brass inserts for the missing cars are still available or were the last time I looked.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Joseph_Pestell]

37 minutes ago, Il Grifone said:

Some of my Pullman set have Kitmaster bogies (part of job lots), but they are in rather short supply. I acquired a kitchen Car made from a paper overlay. This needed tidying up but now looks quite reasonable. Obviously I need another one and a couple of Second Class Cars... I was considering fitting the motor bogies to the Kitchen cars. I'm not too convinced as to the trackholding of seven cars being pushed from behind or, as is probably necessary for sufficient power, one at each end. I recall that more than five cars were beyond the capabilities of a single bogie when I tried it years ago, but it may have been a duff bogie of course.

 

Somehow I acquired one of the later centre cars with the recessed windows. It was allocated to make the other Kitchen car....

 

Brass inserts for the missing cars are still available or were the last time I looked.

 

I am considering "upgrading" a Triang set at the moment as a friend has got a job lot of dummy power cars. So all this info very useful.

 

I am thinking of motorising by way of a Replica chassis unit in one of the trailers or two Replica units, one under each power car if I go for a Western unit. I have a nostalgia for these after eating picnic lunch in a withdrawn unit parked at OOC.

[stewartingram]

For what it is worth, I have a mixed Kitmaster/Triang set which I did way back when, open to any offers if anyone is interested then pm me?

 

Stewart

[Phil Parker]

18 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I am considering "upgrading" a Triang set at the moment as a friend has got a job lot of dummy power cars. So all this info very useful.

 

Everyone has spare power cars. Before starting, make sure you can find sufficient centre coaches. 

[RosiesBoss]

G'day, all,

 

Here's a link to the thread describing my conversions of Tri-ang Blue Pullmans.

 

I hope it's of some interest.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[Gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

Here is a sketch drawing of how I made the kitchen cars for my Midland Pullman. The Western Pullman Kitchen cars were the same except that they were mounted upon two unpowered bogies rather than one unpowered and one powered bogies.

 

 

The various sections of power car had to have the grilles and windows filled in and filed flush. One thing to watch out for is that the first class cars are slightly wider than the power cars and I had to cut the sections to be spliced down the middle and file a slight bit off to get them to be the same width. I found that a hack saw blade takes almost enough out to correct the width to match the power car sections.

 

As I haven't built a Western Pullman I can't really say how I would go about building the second class parlour cars. It may be possible to cut and shut power car ends together but that would be a lot of joints in one coach or to simply cut out and refit the pillars between the windows of a former first class coach. The alternative is to use the older type with the painted glazing strip and make a new one by way of masking the windows before painting.

 

Kitchen car form the corridor side.

 

Kitchen car from the kitchen side.

 

The diagrams for the various cars may be found within these links:

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/data/diagrams/653.jpg

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/data/diagrams/654.jpg

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/data/diagrams/673.jpg

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/data/diagrams/662.jpg

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/data/diagrams/663.jpg

 

https://www.railcar.co.uk/data/diagrams/664.jpg

 

Gibbo.