BR Class 03 iffy running

[thx712517]

Hello all, picked up a BR Class 03 diesel, the weathered green one, and it's not the best runner. Not stalling, but mechanical noise. I opened it and used isopropyl alcohol to brush the gears clean, thinking the stuff grease was the problem. Helped a bit. 

 

I applied some light oil to the gears and to the axles. Still got a gear noise, not quite a coffee grinder but close. Opened it up again and added a drop to the motor shaft. The motor itself is firmly mounted. I did notice the axles seem to just sit in slots cut into the frame, instead of being in a brass bearing like my 64xx. I had given the axles a wipe with the alcohol and used some of the light oil in the slots, but now I'm wondering if I should have used a grease instead. 

 

I'm at the point where high speed running has a low volume high pitched keening noise, and low speed running has a low volume....surge? It's quiet but sounds like it's binding somewhere in the revolution. I just don't see it when it's running. 

 

[MG 7305]

I do not have an 03 but my approach to such issues is to dismantle the model as far as possible, lift motor worm from gear train, is the grinding noise coming from the motor?  remove rods and try each axle by hand, is one binding?  Has a pickup moved from bearing on the inside of the tyre to somewhere else?  Remove drive axle and check drive train is free.  This list is not exhaustive but I have managed to keep (and get) 72 models moving as advertised.

 

Good luck

 

Julian

[tomparryharry]

I've got a few Bachmann 03's, and the older Mainline 04's. The one occasional problem is the jackshaft mechanism, which is directly under the cab. In certain circumstances, the coupling rods will foul with the jackshaft as the wheels revolve. The coupling rod/jackshaft pins are a tight sliding  fit, so they are adjustable with care.  If the pins are too loose, they might be going the 'other way', and fouling on the inside of the cab steps. A severe dose of 'looking at' will sometimes show up the problem.

 

Happy modelling,

Ian.

[The Johnster]

If you can remove the motor, there are two things you can do to try and isolate the location of the problem.  Apply current to it, and if it runs smoothly your problem is elsewhere.  Don't put it back yet, and push the rolling chassis along gently with your finger, feeling for tight spots or binds, which would suggest a motion problem such as Ian's jackshaft issue, or grinding/vibration which would suggest a gearbox issue.  If it's a motion problem, then close inspection at the bind position should reveal it.  If gearbox, then something is likely misaligned or worn, or some grit has got in there; dismantling, cleaning, and rebuilding should solve the problem.

 

We are getting close to Julian's strip down and re-assembly, which you may as well do anyway.  Keep small screws in a lump of blu-tac or similar to stop them making a break for the border or being sacrificed. to the carpet monster, and handle things carefully around the motor feed wires from the pickup.  Check your pickups, and that there is no gunge or debris in the axle channels or at the bottom of the chassis block, which will make a poor fit for the keeper plate.  On the subject of keeper plates, I've had locos that have been improved by slackening off the keeper plate screws half a turn.

 

I'd recommend cleaning everything and getting rid of the coloured grease that the model is supplied with.  It attracts gunge and is used primarily because it meets shipping insurance and fire safety regulations; it solidifies in time and becomes useless.  I use a rattlecan switch cleaner which is powerful enough to blow most of the crud away.  

 

Clean everything before re-assembly, and lube as sparingly as possible with a high grade machine oil suitable for use with plastics.  If it still sounds like a coffee grinder, then I'm stumped but somebody here will probably be able to advise you.

[thx712517]

Thanks all for the advice. I didn't have a chance to look it over today but tomorrow I'll give it a thorough going over, especially the cranks under the cab. 

[thx712517]

I never did see anything obvious, but after disassembly and reassembly it ran happily at express train speeds. Shunting speed however was lumpy and unhappy. I set up a loop and let it run forward and backward at various speeds and all I have to show for it is a faint burnt electronics smell and a lumpy low speed. I have the absolute worst luck with any UK outline loco I buy, and shipping costs always make it an expensive gamble. I really should just stop. 

[tomparryharry]

8 hours ago, thx712517 said:

I never did see anything obvious, but after disassembly and reassembly it ran happily at express train speeds. Shunting speed however was lumpy and unhappy. I set up a loop and let it run forward and backward at various speeds and all I have to show for it is a faint burnt electronics smell and a lumpy low speed. I have the absolute worst luck with any UK outline loco I buy, and shipping costs always make it an expensive gamble. I really should just stop. 

 

I'm sorry to hear you are having trouble. I've got a few here, and they are all pretty good. I use any of them on my old shunting plank, and even though I've passed the layout on, the selected locomotive(s) will always work well. 

 

Best wishes,

Ian.

[tomparryharry]

Just a quick question. What 'make' of 03 did you buy? Bachmann or Mainline? Split chassis or the later type? 

 

Ian.

[thx712517]

1 hour ago, tomparryharry said:

Just a quick question. What 'make' of 03 did you buy? Bachmann or Mainline? Split chassis or the later type? 

 

Ian.

https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Bachmann-diesel/Bachmann-shunting-locomotives/Bachmann-31-364-class-03-d2383-in-br-green-late-crest-livery-with-wasp-stripes-weathered/

 

This one from Olivia's, sold as a new locomotive. My understanding is it's the Bachmann with the later type chassis. When I had checked the item number before buying it was the most recently produced type, anytime between 2013-2015. 

 

To say I was let down would be an understatement. Previous threads here have talked about what a great runner it is, so I had high hopes. It's for my GWR/Western Region themed Inglenook, so shunting speed is the only thing that matters to me, and that's just where this fellow falls down. 

[Clive Mortimore]

I have quite a few 03s, and other 0-6-0 diesel shunters on 03 chassis. They range for the very old Replica model to the newest chassis that came out when Bachmann introduced the 04. All are noisy, they all crab and lurch as they move and tend not to have a very good minimum speed. Having been chased by several along Ipswich docks I reckon they are just like the real thing.

 

I have had a couple of older Bachmann split chassis where one of the mountings for a spur gear has broken. I replaced the mounting with a suitable size bolt, after drilling a hole in the chassis. Running still terrible but they go backwards and the other way.

[John Tomlinson]

12 minutes ago, thx712517 said:

https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Bachmann-diesel/Bachmann-shunting-locomotives/Bachmann-31-364-class-03-d2383-in-br-green-late-crest-livery-with-wasp-stripes-weathered/

 

This one from Olivia's, sold as a new locomotive. My understanding is it's the Bachmann with the later type chassis. When I had checked the item number before buying it was the most recently produced type, anytime between 2013-2015. 

 

To say I was let down would be an understatement. Previous threads here have talked about what a great runner it is, so I had high hopes. It's for my GWR/Western Region themed Inglenook, so shunting speed is the only thing that matters to me, and that's just where this fellow falls down. 

On the basis of the price you paid, this should definitely be the latest model. I have a couple of them, and the running is excellent - there's no reason yours shouldn't be the same.

 

As a new loco, I'd be inclined to send it back to Olivia's and tell them why you're not happy. Whilst most of us will have a go at minor repairs on a new loco, you really shouldn't be having to spend a lot of time and effort sorting this out, plus if there's a manufacturing defect in it, it may simply not be sortable.

 

John.

 

P.S. Doubtful if you could DCC the older split chassis model without considerable difficulty, so yes this must be the latest type.

Edited September 5, 2019 by John Tomlinson
added P.S.

[tomparryharry]

34 minutes ago, thx712517 said:

https://www.oliviastrains.com/trains/mt/Bachmann-diesel/Bachmann-shunting-locomotives/Bachmann-31-364-class-03-d2383-in-br-green-late-crest-livery-with-wasp-stripes-weathered/

 

This one from Olivia's, sold as a new locomotive. My understanding is it's the Bachmann with the later type chassis. When I had checked the item number before buying it was the most recently produced type, anytime between 2013-2015. 

 

To say I was let down would be an understatement. Previous threads here have talked about what a great runner it is, so I had high hopes. It's for my GWR/Western Region themed Inglenook, so shunting speed is the only thing that matters to me, and that's just where this fellow falls down. 

 Assuming you have a bottom keeper plate on your model. Invert the model, and try unscrewing the keeper plate, and lift out. The 3 wheelsets, and the jackshaft should lift out. If you haven't already, have a darn  good look at that jackshaft assembly again. The jackshaft plays no part whatsoever in the drivetrain, so I would still look there first. The counterbalance parts of the jackshaft are held in by small Phillips screws, so try running the chassis without the balance weights & jackshaft. If the balance weight portions are out of quarter (and they can be) then it'll run like my dogs hind leg. 

 

I did have one that would 'lock up' for no good reason, and I finally tracked it down to the jackshaft. 20 minutes with a set of jewellers screwdrivers, 16lb sledge* & oxy-acetylene torch* soon had it running again ...

 

* The items marked * are not available on your model. 

HTH,

Ian.

[thx712517]

My goal is to have an early BR diesel shunter that works amazingly well on DC at creeping speeds. Would an 08 have been a better choice since it doesn't have the jackshaft? Bachmann or Hornby? 

[rob D2]

Bachmann 08s And Hornby 09s in my experience run well.

try not to get a SH older Bachmann 08 as the pickups on the older ones used to be an issue.

 

the major difference I’d the Hornby one has much finer detail ( too fine in my view ) and the Bachmann one Is therefore a bit solider 

[ColinK]

Sorry to hear about your 03 problems, I’ve one of the latest 03’s which has never run properly and every attempt to solve the problems have failed. I can’t remember who I bought it from so I can’t send it back.  I’ve also got an ancient split frame 03 that runs superbly. Luck of the draw.

 

I now use a Hornby 08 as my station pilot and its first outing was at the 3 day Quorn exhibion where it ran faultlessly. I’ve replaced the body with a PH cut down version to make it a bit different.

 

On my O-16.5 NG shunting layout I use a Model Rail sentinel which crawls around slowly and without stalling.  This also has a new body which can be swapped with the original.

[RobMG]

I have just bought an 03 new, and it runs perfectly. It will start and creep along silently.So no probs there.  

My gripe is the build quality. The moment I took it out of the box a cab step fell off, one buffer is sticking, so I checked the others, and one fell off !   Now I can carefully glue these back on, but I am worried in case doing that invalidates the warranty.   I don't really want to take it back and change it, I waited weeks for it , and it is such a lovely model otherwise. 

What do you guys recommend ?

 

Rob

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Since you don't really want to take it back (I wouldn't either if it was a really sweet runner as received, but then operation is my overwhelming priority).

If you can do the work 'invisibly' no one will ever know.

Or you could wait until the warranty times out, and then stick the parts back on.

[RobMG]

Yes, I think I can do the work invisibly..  will do it later today.

Thank you for your reply

Rob

[90rob]

5 hours ago, RobMG said:

I have just bought an 03 new, and it runs perfectly. It will start and creep along silently.So no probs there.  

My gripe is the build quality. The moment I took it out of the box a cab step fell off, one buffer is sticking, so I checked the others, and one fell off !   Now I can carefully glue these back on, but I am worried in case doing that invalidates the warranty.   I don't really want to take it back and change it, I waited weeks for it , and it is such a lovely model otherwise. 

What do you guys recommend ?

 

Rob

 

Yes it is annoying when bits fall off, but I am sure you are right in valuing running qualities above everything else. Cosmetic repairs are something you get used to - the number of times I have broken details with careless handling (!) - but I have always found that you can put up with a cosmetic repair or two but a badly running loco will forever 'offend the eye' and should never be tolerated from new.

 

[divibandit]

Evening all,

I'm trying to refurbish my old Mainline 03 in blue. I bought it new in 1984(!) and it ran faultlessly, if a little fast, for years. 

It doesn't run at all now. I applied power directly to the wheels from my controller but nothing, the controller light doesn't even dim slightly.

I have used a multimeter on but I can't find an open circuit.

 

Can anyone help?

Steve

[ikcdab]

I guess this is the old split chassis design. With any problem like this you need to approach it systematically. I would apply power directly to the motor terminals and see if the motor runs. Then work back from there. Its split chassis, so you need to make sure that there is continuity from the wheel treads to the chassis and nothing is bridging the insulation gaps.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The other factor with Mainline of advanced years is 'gently does it'. I have seen a number of Mainline split chassis mechanisms from locos of smart exterior appearance 'internally deranged' by attempts to get it moving by applying force.

 

Internally gummed up and with poor conduction due to dried lubricant is a commonplace, and if present is typically best tackled by dismantling, cleaning up with IPA and light relubrication when reassembled.

[YT-1300]

10 hours ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

The other factor with Mainline of advanced years is 'gently does it'. I have seen a number of Mainline split chassis mechanisms from locos of smart exterior appearance 'internally deranged' by attempts to get it moving by applying force.

 

Internally gummed up and with poor conduction due to dried lubricant is a commonplace, and if present is typically best tackled by dismantling, cleaning up with IPA and light relubrication when reassembled.

I know a few people like that...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

1 hour ago, YT-1300 said:

I know a few people like that...

Oh yes. Then again it's worked well for me. Once the 'inspirational eejit' has been found out and ejected, there's often an opening for someone with their head screwed on right.