Hornby Pullman issues

[145 Squadron]

Hi.

 

I hope someone can help; I am trying to assemble a train of Hornby 4 wheel bogie 1928 type Pullmans for a 'Bournemouth Belle' train for our club layout.

 

I have assembled an 8 coach train (I know it should be 10 or 12) from my stock but have a couple of issues;

 

1. The coaches consistently derail when coupled as a train using the standard hook and bar Hornby coupling. I have seen mention of this issue elsewhere on RMWeb, but could not find a solution. I would like to closer couple the coaches anyway, but the close coupling mechanism on these coaches is a strange one with the tension coupling mounted using a simple Phillips screw.

 

2. A couple of the coaches have the pre-1960 Pullman emblems on the coach sides which I would like to replace with the later version. What should I use to remove the existing emblems without damaging the brown paint? Meths seems to work on the interior curtains, but the emblems seemed to be impervious to this treatment and I didn't want to start removing the underlying colour.

 

I have  painted the roofs a darker colour and added roof board brackets, as well as some simple detailing of the interiors. I know they will only be representative coaches as from my superficial research every Pullman coach seems to have been individual (I have too many projects as it is!).

 

These seem nice models so it seems a shame not to spend a bit of extra effort on them.

 

 

 

 

Thanks

 

Tony

 

[resin001]

Hi Tony

 

I had the same issue with derailments as you are experiencing. I solved this by using the Hornby Roco style couplings ( R8220 ) . For closer coupling I actually use the Hornby style on one coach and the original Roco coupling on the other coach , the Roco coupling is slightly shorter. Recent Hornby coaches that I have purchased include both tension lock and Roco style couplings. 

I tried Kadee couplings but they also cause derailments on longer coach rakes. 

[resin001]

Hi Tony 

Having read your post again , the Roco couplings may not be a solution as they are designed to fit in NEM pockets and you mention that your couplings are secured with a phillips screw . Is there space to fit an NEM pocket ? 

 

 

[RFS]

The first issue of these Hornby Pullmans were notorious for derailing because of the way the coupling was designed. As a result, it was redesigned with a proper close-coupling mechanism with NEM pockets. Modified coaches, I believe, had an A suffix so R4145 was old style and R4145A the newer style. At the time Hornby provided replacement bogies FOC to allow you to update the earlier versions, but that was around 10 years ago now.

 

Keen Systems may have a fix for this which may be worth investigating. 

 

Might be useful to post a picture of the underside so that we can see how this coupling system works. 

[Dunsignalling]

The original CCU link/coupling on these cars is a monstrosity and I doubt any of them ever functioned effectively. Hornby did make the NEM links, as fitted to later runs of the lit Pullmans available, possibly without charge at first (IIRC). I don't know if they are still available. Part No. was X9098M.

 

Note that, whether you can obtain these or use the Keen Systems upgrade kit, you will need to detach and re-solder the pick-up wires.

 

Also, check the back-to-back dimensions on the wheels and ensure that they are a tight fit on the axles. My early lit Pullmans often derailed because they had drifted out of gauge. Superglue is your friend if yours do it too.

 

John

Edited September 3, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Thane of Fife]

Evenin' all 

 

I am currently building an eight coach Queen of Scots set based on Hornby Pullmans.

 

I am using Keen systems bogies, as the Hornby bogies are not Pullman bogies. 

 

A more expensive solution would be to use MJT bogies.

 

Malcolm

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

2 hours ago, 145 Squadron said:

...The coaches consistently derail when coupled as a train using the standard hook and bar Hornby coupling. I have seen mention of this issue elsewhere on RMWeb, but could not find a solution. I would like to closer couple the coaches anyway, but the close coupling mechanism on these coaches is a strange one with the tension coupling mounted using a simple Phillips screw...

These coaches will work reliably if a rigid link is formed between the close coupling mechanisms. The question thus becomes what 'rigid link' coupler to use?

If you are prepared to have a fixed link rather than couplers just screw on DIY  drilled and shaped metal strips. (Something of a pain for railing up more than 4 coaches in my experience.)

If an autocoupler isn't required, then the Keen systems one piece moulded buckeye representation can be screwed on and makes a very good job. Vertical lift in, lift out coupling and uncoupling; good for use in fiddle yards.

Used both the above when learning my way around getting the best out of the close coupling mechanisms on these coaches.

 

I feel pretty confident, (but haven't done it) that either the Roco 40270 or Flesichmann Profi coupler - and possibly Hornby's R8220 which is the same pattern as the Roco but in a longer mount - could be attached to these coach mechanisms by DIY adaption. Whether this is possible at standard height or would have to be unique to these coaches I cannot say.

 

HTH, and do tell what you do and your findings.

[RFS]

40 minutes ago, Thane of Fife said:

Evenin' all 

 

I am currently building an eight coach Queen of Scots set based on Hornby Pullmans.

 

I am using Keen systems bogies, as the Hornby bogies are not Pullman bogies. 

 

A more expensive solution would be to use MJT bogies.

 

Malcolm

 

 

Sounds like you are using Railroad Pullmans as these are the ones with the wrong bogies. The OP however is using the lighted versions which have the correct bogies.

Edited September 1, 2019 by RFS

[Thane of Fife]

Good morning all

 

I have very limited knowledge of R-T-R items, as the vast majority of my models are kit built.

 

I did buy a job lot of eight Railroad Pullmans for  £5 each, and set about converting them following Penguin of Doom's methods posted on this site.

 

I wrongly assumed that all Hornby Pullmans had the same bogies.

 

I shall retreat to my railway room (spare bedroom), and continue working on my Queen of Scots set.

 

Malcolm

[Thane of Fife]

P.S.

 

One small point:

 

Looking at 145 Squadron's brilliant interiors, I notice that one (3rd class?) has 2+1 seating with two coupes, each with six seats .

 

I have  never seen a Pullman seating plan with six-seater coupes. Was this a post-war modification?

 

I have always assumed that the coupes were only fitted to 1+1 interiors, and had four seats.

 

Malcolm

[145 Squadron]

Thanks to all for the helpful replies regarding the coupling/derailing issue; I have a plentiful supply of the Keen fixed knuckle coupling (which I use on my Bulleids) so will try that solution first. I will post how I get on.

 

Regarding your comment on the interiors, Thane, I have no detailed knowledge of Pullman interiors (which seem to be a real can of worms) so have tried to keep it a simple upgrade to try and emphasise the Pullman experience.

 

Has anyone any ideas regarding removing the emblems on the coach sides?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

[Hilux5972]

I use brasso to remove lining and transfers. Works a treat. 

[KDG]

I've had success removing numbers from locos with a cotton bud and t-cut. Gentle rubbing though.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, KDG said:

I've had success removing numbers from locos with a cotton bud and t-cut. Gentle rubbing though.

 

This. Very gently though and don't rush. You'll soon get the technique.

 

You can pick it up at places like Halfords and even some supermarkets/bargain shops such as Home & Bargain.

 

 

 

Jason

Edited September 2, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[145 Squadron]

Thanks all for your help; I have ordered some X9089M replacement close coupling units from Hornby to be able to fit the Keen knuckles (thanks Dunsignalling).

 

I note the responses to the emblem removal; I have used the T-cut method on loco numbers before but have always had to remove most of the number by carefully paring with a curved blade first. The T-cut always leaves a shiny patch which is not a problem with a loco cab side (and helps to disguise waterslide transfer film), but I don't fancy having to re-varnish the whole coach side.  Unfortunately I don't have any spare coach bodies to try it out on. I will leave this till last while I decide whether I want to risk it or not.

 

Once again many thanks for all the helpful advice.

 

I will let you know how I get on.

 

Tony 

[Hilux5972]

If your replacing the emblems with a different one you’ll need a shiny patch to apply the new one too anyway. 

[145 Squadron]

Understood, but Methfix are more forgiving in that respect. The problem is what to do with the shiny patch afterwards, which does not match the rest of the coach side (apart from a full varnish respray.

 

Tony

[Hilux5972]

Do you not seal the transfers in with varnish after? It’s recommended 

[145 Squadron]

Not had any problem with any unvarnished Methfix transfers on my coaches as it would not be possible to varnish the whole coach and my efforts to patch varnish always show against the finish on the rest of the coach.

 

I find the Methfix transfers weather in quite nicely with normal handling and the only problem I have had in the past is removing unwanted Methfix transfers which seem to have fused into the coach paint finish. Pressfix and waterslide always (in my experience) come off easily, even when over-varnished.

 

Hornby have emailed to say the revised close-couplers will be arriving today. The only problem I can envisage is having to cut and re-solder the wire to each bogie to fit them (having already done this to one wire in each coach to fit a resistor to stop the DCC controllers shutting down when the stock is put on the layout.

 

Again thanks for all the advice.

 

Tony