How Long can a Model Railway Be?

[Sir TophamHatt]

Talking in DCC terms here, how long could a model railway be?

 

Here's a little story:

 

Put some decking in and I have about 20m (4x5m strips) left, plus a bunch of off cuts.

I'm thinking they're wide enough for a bit of track outside.  My garden is 23m long at the longest point but the railway would only go to half of that, if that!

 

Could DCC reach that far and be okay?

Thinking have the track permanently outside and just bring locos / controller when I want - but this is just a wild thought at the moment.

 

The other thought was that at some point in the future, the railway may cover a door, so I could use these decking pieces as "bridges" to cross the gap where the door would open (although I'd only need a metre and a bit, so still have loads to spare).

 

Unless anyone can suggest anything else to do with the decking pieces...

[PaulCheffus]

4 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Unless anyone can suggest anything else to do with the decking pieces...

Hi

 

I made a couple of planters (about 900mm square) out of the offcuts from doing our decking.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[njee20]

It'll stretch 10m with ease. I don't honestly know what the maximum would be, to all intents and purposes limitless as long as you had appropriate wiring and boosters to avoid voltage drops.

[t-b-g]

I have had an involvement with a DCC layout that had an end to end run of over 90ft. We did struggle initially but when the layout was divided up into "districts" by people who understand it much better than I do, any problems vanished. It was also fitted with capacitors between the main bus bars (called snubbers if I recall correctly) which help reduce power spikes over long distances.

[Michael Edge]

Carlisle is 30m x 6m, no problem with DCC although the bus wires are hefty mains cable.

[Steven B]

Think about the size of some American basement filling layouts - 20m should be perfectly do-able if you use a decent wire size and don't rely on the rails to power all 20m. I'd suggest running some 1.5 or 2.5mm wires alongside your track with regular feeds.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Hmm.

Interesting thoughts.

 

I did think about using some of the decking pieces to make arms for the pallet sofa I'm making but I'll still have enough left over to give it a go.

 

I suppose even if it's a out and back layout, would be good to see some of my locos stretching their legs (wheels?).

 

It may also be a good practice for a modular sort of layout as then I could bring it out in summer and back in during the winter with ease.

 

You watch, I'll end up buying more pieces now!

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Hmm.

Interesting thoughts.

 

I did think about using some of the decking pieces to make arms for the pallet sofa I'm making but I'll still have enough left over to give it a go.

 

I suppose even if it's a out and back layout, would be good to see some of my locos stretching their legs (wheels?).

 

It may also be a good practice for a modular sort of layout as then I could bring it out in summer and back in during the winter with ease.

 

You watch, I'll end up buying more pieces now!

No need to bring it in during winter; the Reverend's line survived at least ten years outdoors

[Sir TophamHatt]

Will track / wires / connections not rust?

[melmerby]

7 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Will track / wires / connections not rust?

Only if they are ferrous. (iron based)

Copper can oxidise (verdigris), nickel silver can tarnish but easily cleaned.

Most metals used for a model railway e.g. Copper, brass, nickel silver do tarnish and may need cleaning but not corrode like iron/steel.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

 

23 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Talking in DCC terms here, how long could a model railway be?

My garden is 23m long at the longest point but the railway would only go to half of that, if that!

 

Could DCC reach that far and be okay?...

As a one off I have had two and a half boxes of Peco streamline laid out in a straight line, about 180 feet. We used hefty mains cores as buses, these were salvage from the building we did it in, and had the power feed point roughly mid way. Operated perfectly, a relevant factor to mention may be that my Lenz system is 'turned up' so that the decoders can deliver 15V at the motor terminals on my own layout.

 

Funny aspect, when you are sitting 30 yards from a 4mm model viewed end on, I certainly needed binoculars to be sure that the loco had started at 'dead slow'.

 

3 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Will track / wires / connections not rust?

I had OO outdoors for a good few years. Peco rail was fine, in fact it goes a dull brown from surface oxidation, other than on the running surface. Avoid leaving stock with metal wheels on the track outside as if there is any electro potential between wheel and rail metal compositions: there will be corrosion if any dew condenses or rain falls.

 

The Peco rail joiners failed pretty randomly during the colder half of the year by splitting, pretty sure this was by freeze-thaw action. Copper wiring gets surface verdigris but this does not affect conduction in our application, soldered joints do occasionally fail (so you make a bus to rail connection to every length of rail and search for the failure in locations where you see the train slow - it is more maintenance work than indoors.)

[Fat Controller]

1 minute ago, melmerby said:

Only if they are ferrous. (iron based)

Copper can oxidise (verdigris), nickel silver can tarnish but easily cleaned.

Most metals used for a model railway e.g. Copper, brass, nickel silver do tarnish and may need cleaning but not corrode like iron/steel.

The Reverend's line was on a hillside overlooking Swansea Bay, so a wet, salty envirionment. He hadn't installed parallel feeders, but Peco rail-joiners worked most of the time, given a liberal use of Plus-Gas (WD40 with attitude)

[DCB]

On 04/09/2019 at 11:14, Sir TophamHatt said:

Will track / wires / connections not rust?

 

Yes the solder will oxidise and the connection fail unless you use some decent non EU approved solder.

On 04/09/2019 at 11:28, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I had OO outdoors for a good few years. Peco rail was fine, in fact it goes a dull brown from surface oxidation, other than on the running surface. Avoid leaving stock with metal wheels on the track outside as if there is any electro potential between wheel and rail metal compositions: there will be corrosion if any dew condenses or rain falls.

 

The Peco rail joiners failed pretty randomly during the colder half of the year by splitting, pretty sure this was by freeze-thaw action. Copper wiring gets surface verdigris but this does not affect conduction in our application, soldered joints do occasionally fail (so you make a bus to rail connection to every length of rail and search for the failure in locations where you see the train slow - it is more maintenance work than indoors.)

My experience over 25 plus years is peco railjoiners split and fail and mine don't take traction current.  N/S Rails oxidise and cause derailments unless the "Gauge corner" the inside angles between rails is kept clean.

[pH]

Interestingly, I visited an inside/outside DCC OO-scale model railway last week. The outside section was a double-track loop about 15m out, 15m back. Trains ran very well on that section, at times with two trains on the same track, though both were very light trains. I didn't ask about the details of the power supply/control etc. to the loop. The owner did say he can run in light rain (though he doesn't do that regularly), and even 'dry' snow once the tracks have been cleared.

[johnofwessex]

The previous owners of my house built stairs to the attic from decking board......................

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

11 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

Yes the solder will oxidise and the connection fail unless you use some decent non EU approved solder.

My experience over 25 plus years is peco railjoiners split and fail and mine don't take traction current.  N/S Rails oxidise and cause derailments unless the "Gauge corner" the inside angles between rails is kept clean.

I wasn't outside anything like that duration, just six years. I switched to silver solder having originally used regular 60/40 Ersin electrical solder, for the reason described. The effect of a failed connection when the railjoiners were asked to provide conduction was immediately obvious, speed sagged off very noticeably on that rail length!

 

Interesting about the gauge corner, presumably I wasn't outside long enough for that to be a problem, I'll keep it in mind. I am indoors at the moment but would like to go outside again. However the wildlife from the old oak woodland

proved much too aggressive on the first section I constructed, ripping up rails. (Never had such trouble in polite suburbia.) But a thought has come to me that might neutralise this problem. All those parallel lengths of metal could be connected to control fence gear when not in use to run trains. That might keep the varmints off. Too many commitments to deal with his now, but someday...

 

11 hours ago, pH said:

...The owner did say he can run in light rain (though he doesn't do that regularly), and even 'dry' snow once the tracks have been cleared.

The real trouble with wet is water especially inside coaches, do it often and you will have algae, much of it inside. So it was steam operated goods in the wet. Freight stock should be covered in filth, and drying out a few locos after the session is little trouble. (I have had an OO loco under a 'waterfall' indoors due to perforation of roof covering, and it endured this for several days to no ill effect, went on until worn out from the usual split chassis troubles.) The goods stock used in the wet was left standing on newspaper to dry.

 

Snow that brushes off is effectively no different to rain, same post-use treatment of locos and stock required.

 

Frosts with the temperature constantly below about -5C are trouble. Even cleaned off the ice returns, and is a good insulator. Freezes onto metal wheels of the stock too. I never did determine the exact temperature when operation became impossible, basically 'brass monkeys' is too cold.

[Fat Controller]

Relcos are usefull in dissuading wild-life from touching the tracks...