RMweb Gold martinapsid Posted September 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2019 Hi all i am making a dcc controled layout but i want to use dc to control the points what power soure can i use to run the points thanks.martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 What point motors will you be using? Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 The rails will have DCC on them and you use DC for the point motors - just make sure you buy motors that work with DC 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul80 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 My Layout is DCC controlled and all the Point Motors are RC Type servos driven by MERG servo 4 controller operated by switches on the control panel so sort of DC Standard solenoid type point motors can also be used but they tend to need IIRC an AC supply to the CDU but I suppose could also use DC ? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martinapsid Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2019 peco i have some from last layout.martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martinapsid Posted September 8, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 8, 2019 non dcc so it would be ac its the souce of the power can get a ac only tranformer.martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Any point solenoid or motor will work off DC. I will stick my neck out here and say I am not aware of a commercial point drive solenoid or motor that only works off AC in the UK. I would take the power from a sperate transformer with a 12 volt AC output via a four amp rectifier. You could take the AC supply from the dcc transformer via a rectifier to drive the solenoids or motors but the voltage may be a bit high. Gordon A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 27 minutes ago, martinapsid said: peco i have some from last layout.martin So you can use whatever you used on your last layout to control the point motors. Regards, John P 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, martinapsid said: non dcc so it would be ac its the souce of the power can get a ac only tranformer.martin All transformers are AC only - it is impossible to get a DC transformer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JimFin Posted September 9, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 9, 2019 23 hours ago, WIMorrison said: All transformers are AC only - it is impossible to get a DC transformer ???? https://www.petersspares.com/gaugemaster-gmc-wm4-wall-mounted-transformer-12v-dc-smooth-regulated.ir Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 8 minutes ago, JimFin said: ???? https://www.petersspares.com/gaugemaster-gmc-wm4-wall-mounted-transformer-12v-dc-smooth-regulated.ir Pedant mode on, or electronics engineer mode on, if you prefer A transformer converts AC to AC. A rectifier converts AC to DC. Gaugemaster should know better than to call a Power Supply a Transformer. Regards, John P 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktoix Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 08/09/2019 at 18:04, Gordon A said: Any point solenoid or motor will work off DC. I will stick my neck out here and say I am not aware of a commercial point drive solenoid or motor that only works off AC in the UK. I would take the power from a sperate transformer with a 12 volt AC output via a four amp rectifier. You could take the AC supply from the dcc transformer via a rectifier to drive the solenoids or motors but the voltage may be a bit high. Gordon A Do not under any circumstances use the same transformer to supply the DCC and the points supply. Keep them separate. I speak from experience. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junctionmad Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 23 hours ago, Nicktoix said: Do not under any circumstances use the same transformer to supply the DCC and the points supply. Keep them separate. I speak from experience. Nick why whats the issue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 I have a DCC controlled layout with DC operated points using Tortoise motors from a separate 12vDC supply. There is no connection between the two. The frog switching uses the contacts on the motors which are totally separate from the motor control connections. John 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicktoix Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 I should have correctly said do not use the same winding on a transformer. I have a substantial transformer, 20Amp, on my fixed American layout. It has a host of tappings on it and being frugally minded I used one to provide the points power via a CDU, again fairly hefty 25000mf capacitor. Somewhere a connection between the track supply and the points circuit was inadvertently created. It very efficiently cooked some decoders fortunately in the days before sound but still quite costly at the time. So lesson learned. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted September 11, 2019 Share Posted September 11, 2019 I have this set up. I have my DCC power bus connected to the controller. I have a set of DC power bus wires that connect to an old Hornby DC controller (with the 16v output connections). Switches connect to each point and power bus. I can provide more details if you wish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JDW Posted September 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 11, 2019 Exactly, I have the same, I saw no need for expensive point/accessory decoders, so the trains run on DCC but my points are good old fashioned analogue. I just used the accessory output from an old Gaugemaster controller, it is more than enough. No need to make it complicated, simple switches and a cheap power supply (or old controller) are all you need, I'd likely look to Gaugemaster for one if I were buying one as I've always had good experiences with their products. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Hi JDW New to all this and my question, is it possible to have an hybrid system, by that I mean the points are DC but operated from a Tablet showing the layout (similar to DCC systems) a touch screen to operate the points by touching it on screen rather than using a bank of toggles? Perhaps will need an interface between the tablet and points just wondering..... Thanks Chilly 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovenor Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 It's certainly possible to operate points from a touch screen independently of DCC. But does need a fair bit of effort. MERG have several kits that can be used for the interface. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Thanks Grovenor This appears to be a cost efficient option then, run points DC and control tracks DCC and a space saver as well I will delve deeper. Chilly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 @chilly, you have just purchased a z21 and you can therefore create a mimic diagram using the z21 application - it doesn't make sense (to me) to create a hybrid when you have everything you need in your hand already. If you didn't have a z21 already then there *may* be a different discussion, but you have it therefore the z21 route is, I consider, more sensible and less prone to failures and operational issues.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ITG Posted June 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, WIMorrison said: @chilly, you have just purchased a z21 and you can therefore create a mimic diagram using the z21 application - it doesn't make sense (to me) to create a hybrid when you have everything you need in your hand already. If you didn't have a z21 already then there *may* be a different discussion, but you have it therefore the z21 route is, I consider, more sensible and less prone to failures and operational issues.. I’ve been following this thread, as I too am planning a new layout. That said, I am a committed fan of DCC, and I too was wondering what the advantage is of adopting a DC points operating system linked to a touch screen mimic panel, when that very thing is part of what DCC can do. I’m not familiar with z21, although from what I’ve read, it seems impressive, not least with the way it can create digital screen mimic panel. It’s certainly making me think about options for next steps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) Just being a skinflint on point decoders, layout has 22 points including 2 double slips so including motors when it happens...……. Already need 10 loco decoders oh yeah plus the points above and 2x25yd packs of flexi ............ z21 on route from Germany so only got at the moment 10 steam loco's Edited June 2, 2020 by Chilly Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 You're looking at 1 'thing' to control several. Unless you send signals in codes along a pair of wires (which is what DCC does), you will need 1 device with 50 wires hanging from it, then a way of converting the lower voltage/current to a higher one. I am sure it can be done with an Arduino, PI or a PC, but it will involve some sort of programming & time to learn how to do it. Are you comfortable with this? If not, then maybe DCC or a hard-wired panel are your remaining options? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 30 minutes ago, Chilly said: Just being a skinflint on point decoders, layout has 22 points including 2 double slips so including motors when it happens...……. Already need 10 loco decoders oh yeah plus the points above and 2x25yd packs of flexi ............ z21 on route from Germany so only got at the moment 10 steam loco's What turnout motors are you using? That will restrict the type of accessory decoder that you use - but integrating it all onto DCC is a much better way to go than ending up with a mixed bag of tricks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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