Recommended size of individual baseboard top pieces

[Tony Davis]

Having built a 6' x 1' layout I am in the planning stages of an (approx) 13' x 4' layout. I am planning on having a flat surface across the whole layout, probably with ply and timber cross-pieces supporting, as mentioned in other threads. My question is; as the top boards must needs be built from separate boards ,what would be the recommended size of those boards? I am not planning on exhibiting the layout, but, as I cannot rule out an house move at some point, would like to make it semi-portable. I am thinking of some sort of support frame attached to 3 walls, with legs at the front (and in the middle?), on which the boards and sub-frame would rest.

 

Recommendations, suggestions and caveats welcomed.

 

 

[jonny777]

I have found 4'x2' to be easy to handle on my own, but you may feel that would mean too many baseboard joins in 13'x4'. 

[TheQ]

 You don't mention your gauge which makes a difference. In N every board is almost a separate scenic area. In O you've just got a shunting layout

 

It's an awkward size, But,

4ft is the standard size of wooden sheets, ply / mdf/ sundela, whatever your poison.  Though I like extruded foam boards which are 1200mm not 1240mm.

This would mean 6 two and a bit feet wide boards which is a lot of joins as Jonny777 says.

IF you go for that then you are going to need good longitudinal beams to keep it flat.

 

I would be tempted to use the six boards lengthways and settle for 12ft long, to reduce the number of track board joins.

Edited September 10, 2019 by TheQ

[ISW]

The size and layout of my baseboard joints was dictated by the track layout. I didn't want any baseboard joints under the main trackwork junctions. Something to bear in mind.

 

Most of my boards are 900mm wide, and the longest is 1250mm. Built in 12mm ply with 44x18 timber bracing they are light enough, and small enough, for removal.

 

[Tony Davis]

A thought occurred to me as I was out walking the dog just now, would foamboard be a viable option? 

[john new]

The key question is are you ever going to have to, or will want to, split it for dismantling?

 

Reasons for that vary from examples including decorating, a bedroom location going back to bedroom mode for a visitor to stay for a few days and modelling reasons like doing messy work tasks on it out of the layout room, working on it from both the front and back, etc,......  If yes then where will the parts have to go through or be stored? How big your doors, stairs etc., are then comes into play, as does stacking options even if only moving things around in your hobby room. All these are setting dimensions as to how big the largest part becomes. If you ever want to exhibit it then further constraints arise as you have to consider transport options. Several lighter boards are much easier to deal with than a few monsters. (I/we learnt that lesson the hard way years ago with the first club layout we built after forming a new club)

 

I recently made the mistake of a board being over long, a very lightweight board so lifting was no problem, the issue is we have a wrap around staircase with two 90degree bends at the half landing; it will easily go round the corner but only if carried vertically which made it awkward to move when visitors come and it would have had to go out for storage in the garage for the week! The third dimension, height, is also important if you are considering moving it around whether indoors or outside of the house. That issue has put the Plum Hollow layout I started on hold. The Plum Hollow board is = 1180 x 590 mm in the surface length and breadth  or 46 1/2″ x 23 1/4″  in imperial measurement. A similar, but more easily overcome, issue occurs with my latest 4ft x 1ft shunting plank - 4ft x 2ft therefore may cause a problem due to the 4ft of length.

 

I know from moving my exhibition display boards and related equipment around that a pack of the 3ft square panels will fit hatchback cars, however, my 4ft x 3ft panels are a limitation. I can get a pack of up to four loaded flat into my Corsa for example (Approx 8" height) but if that 4 x 3 footprint was a railway board with the height of the scenery more than that for the third dimension the hatch would not be closeable.

 

Actual size and shape is also influenced by where the joints need to come to fit your track formations, as has been mentioned by others above. 

 

Unless you are using the old fashioned style 3/4inch chipboard solid top construction then weight is less likely to be an issue in determining max size but long-term manoeuvrability and the ability to access both sides and underneath for wiring/construction and then long term for any maintenance or design changes is important. 

 

Hope these notes based on experience help.

 

Edited September 10, 2019 by john new
Missing word added

[Tony Davis]

10 hours ago, TheQ said:

 

I would be tempted to use the six boards lengthways and settle for 12ft long, to reduce the number of track board joins.

 

I think you're right, 12' would be long enough and have the advantages that you mentioned, thanks

 

The door thing isn't that much of a problem, the bungalow has been built with wide doors to allow wheelchair access, and the railway room door is directly in line with the back door so the boards will go straight out.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Tony Davis

[TheQ]

9 hours ago, Tony Davis said:

A thought occurred to me as I was out walking the dog just now, would foamboard be a viable option? 

By what do you mean foam board? 

There is foam board which is two layers of cardboard board ( or plastic)  and 5 mm or 10mm foam bonded in between.  This has been used with careful design but I wouldn't recommend it for a permanent / semi permanent layout. 

 

If you mean expanded polystyrene sheets the white or grey bubbly stuff no it's too soft.. 

 

If you mean extruded polystyrene sheet which is normally pink or blue,  then with plywood edging and sufficient thickness it can be very successful.. 

Celotex which is similar  can also be used, like the pink or blue, but,  it's strength is in the tin foil top and bottom  , so the bottom layout board has to be used near enough intact . (Holes and slots for points motors are ok)

Edited September 10, 2019 by TheQ

[Tony Davis]

I did mean the two layers of cardboard board, so you've answered that part!

 

I only found out about the extruded foam from the reply here, and, having thought about it, I think i will stick with the plywood option. I am used to it's ways.

 

Thankq

[Right Away]

Taking steps to "future proof" the railway by taking into account a possible house move is always a good idea. 

 

Whichever length you decide on for the individual boards, ensure, where possible that any complex trackwork, turnouts and crossings etc are situated on a whole board and not straddling the board joints in order to simplify dismantling and minimize damage. This might entail having boards of differing lengths depending on the track plan but would ultimately be preferable to replacing the delicate pointwork and wiring thereof, should it become necessary.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Right Away

[wirey33]

The type of layout will have a bearing on the boards and their split points. Clearly you don't want board joints in a complex station throat, but joins in a simple fiddle yard is not going to cause issues.

 

A scale drawing of your planned layout will help you determine where the best splits will be and then you can start thinking about board lengths. This will also help you to "think out of the box" and not be drawn into all boards being the same length. 

 

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

6 hours ago, wirey33 said:

...A scale drawing of your planned layout will help you determine where the best splits will be and then you can start thinking about board lengths. This will also help you to "think out of the box" and not be drawn into all boards being the same length...

Couldn't agree more. Unless building a layout to a defined module format go 'free' on dimensions to match the track layout. Smaller baseboard tops on which the points can be installed and motored and fully tested on the bench before attachment to the frame make the build much easier (and you plan the frame to avoid obstructing motors too). So you might spend a little more on materials. But how often do you build a layout, and how long do you then go on using it?

[Tony Davis]

On 10/09/2019 at 09:30, TheQ said:

 You don't mention your gauge which makes a difference. In N every board is almost a separate scenic area. In O you've just got a shunting layout

 

It's an awkward size, But,

4ft is the standard size of wooden sheets, ply / mdf/ sundela, whatever your poison.  Though I like extruded foam boards which are 1200mm not 1240mm.

This would mean 6 two and a bit feet wide boards which is a lot of joins as Jonny777 says.

IF you go for that then you are going to need good longitudinal beams to keep it flat.

 

I would be tempted to use the six boards lengthways and settle for 12ft long, to reduce the number of track board joins.

Sorry - 016.5

[Tony Davis]

Good points about plotting the layout to work out pointwork position, thanks.

[Hroth]

It depends on how many helpers you'll have to shift it if/when it has to be moved.  Bear in mind that a 6ftx2ft panel is almost like moving an internal door about (Anyone remember the fad for using plywood skinned doors for baseboards?), it's doable but tight corners can be a problem.  I'd prefer 4ftx2ft panels, which are easily handled by one person.  If you can shrink your proposed layout by a foot, then 6 baseboards would be required.

 

As suggested above, use something like AnyRail to plot your proposed layout.  It'll help you arrange pointwork and curves to minimise problems crossing joints.

 

 

[Tony Davis]

I understand what you are saying about ease of moving, but I have a concern about visible surface layout joins. I find it really off-putting when I see gaps in scenery etc where there are joins. I realize these are difficult to avoid with a layout designed for exhibition work, but I would like to avoid them where possible. I am thinking about 3 4x4 boards, but I will follow the advice to plot out the layout first.

 

 

[The Johnster]

If you are going to regularly take the layout down, for storage or for exhibiting, then weight and size are the major issues and the well known ply top on framework 2'x4' is a proven and reliable performer, but I'd prefer smaller boards if you are going to have to move them yourself.  Remember that at the end of an exhibition you'll be tired and want to get away as quickly as possible.  

 

If you are building a permanent erection in a location you have no intention of moving from for life, then the opposite applies and the top board cover needs to be of pieces as large as possible (4'x8'?) to reduce the joins.  Weight is irrelevant provided the floor doesn't collapse.  You've probably devalued your property with such an immovable setup, but as you intend to spend the rest of your life there this is someone else's problem.

 

The most likely other situation is that the layout is 'semi permanent', capable of being taken down and moved carefully in the case of a move of house, or, as in my own case, storage while the landlord was refurbishing the flat.  Weight must be considered, but is less critical than it would be in the exhibition layout example; 2 people can move a fairly large and heavy section if they don't have to do it very often.  In my case I laid track over the baseboard joins and cut it with a slitting disc when it came to dismantling.  When the layout was re-mantled (!) the track was cut back a couple of inches from the baseboard join and new sections fitted in; the running is very good and the layout runs reliably.

 

My layout is wired very simply, and the take down only required that the few wires that crossed joins were cut and rejoined on assembly with block terminal connecters,  If your layout is electrically complex, there is clearly an advantage in using some sort of multipin connector.

[ISW]

11 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

My layout is wired very simply, and the take down only required that the few wires that crossed joins were cut and rejoined on assembly with block terminal connecters,  If your layout is electrically complex, there is clearly an advantage in using some sort of multipin connector.

 

Although my layout is unlikely to be exhibited, having the baseboards in sections does help the construction stage. Wiring is also simplified when you can remove the baseboard and turn it over. No more soldering 'against gravity' ... And there is generally much better lighting!

 

For my baseboard connections I use off-the-shelf PCB screw connectors (from Switch Electronics - I'm sure there any many other suppliers), which are sufficiently robust and inexpensive.

 

Baseboard jumper cable:

 

Baseboard terminal connector installed using a small piece of stripboard/veroboard screwed to the underside of the baseboard:

 

 

 

[jonny777]

On 13/09/2019 at 12:24, Tony Davis said:

I understand what you are saying about ease of moving, but I have a concern about visible surface layout joins. I find it really off-putting when I see gaps in scenery etc where there are joins. I realize these are difficult to avoid with a layout designed for exhibition work, but I would like to avoid them where possible. I am thinking about 3 4x4 boards, but I will follow the advice to plot out the layout first.

 

 

 

My only personal difficulty with a 4ft wide board would be leaning over to the far edge of the board and not knocking over everything at the front. 

 

It is a bit wide for the average arm. 

 

[ISW]

30 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

My only personal difficulty with a 4ft wide board would be leaning over to the far edge of the board and not knocking over everything at the front. 

 

It is a bit wide for the average arm. 

 

I agree. I'm sticking with 900mm as a baseboard width. Even then, reaching into any corners will be a 'challenge'. Hence I build the baseboard support structure to with stand the occasional 'overload' of my weight ...

 

[Tony Davis]

I have a bit of a re-think since starting the thread. Realistically the largest workable size is 11x3. The 3' width fits in with the "stretchoverability" factor mentioned in an earlier post.

 

I would post a proposed trackplan but haven't found suitable trackplanning software for Ubuntu as yet. 

[Kris]

As you are saying that you are not looking to exhibit the layout but want to "future proof" it incase of moving I would go for as few boards as is possible. In terms of being able to get it out of the house when you are moving think about how easily 2 people could move it with care. Given the size that you are talking about I think that you could go for 2 boards but this will be very dependant upon exit routes from the room and position of doors etc. 

[doilum]

On 10/09/2019 at 10:37, john new said:

The key question is are you ever going to have to, or will want to, split it for dismantling?

 

Reasons for that vary from examples including decorating, a bedroom location going back to bedroom mode for a visitor to stay for a few days and modelling reasons like doing messy work tasks on it out of the layout room, working on it from both the front and back, etc,......  If yes then where will the parts have to go through or be stored? How big your doors, stairs etc., are then comes into play, as does stacking options even if only moving things around in your hobby room. All these are setting dimensions as to how big the largest part becomes. If you ever want to exhibit it then further constraints arise as you have to consider transport options. Several lighter boards are much easier to deal with than a few monsters. (I/we learnt that lesson the hard way years ago with the first club layout we built after forming a new club)

 

I recently made the mistake of a board being over long, a very lightweight board so lifting was no problem, the issue is we have a wrap around staircase with two 90degree bends at the half landing; it will easily go round the corner but only if carried vertically which made it awkward to move when visitors come and it would have had to go out for storage in the garage for the week! The third dimension, height, is also important if you are considering moving it around whether indoors or outside of the house. That issue has put the Plum Hollow layout I started on hold. The Plum Hollow board is = 1180 x 590 mm in the surface length and breadth  or 46 1/2″ x 23 1/4″  in imperial measurement. A similar, but more easily overcome, issue occurs with my latest 4ft x 1ft shunting plank - 4ft x 2ft therefore may cause a problem due to the 4ft of length.

 

I know from moving my exhibition display boards and related equipment around that a pack of the 3ft square panels will fit hatchback cars, however, my 4ft x 3ft panels are a limitation. I can get a pack of up to four loaded flat into my Corsa for example (Approx 8" height) but if that 4 x 3 footprint was a railway board with the height of the scenery more than that for the third dimension the hatch would not be closeable.

 

Actual size and shape is also influenced by where the joints need to come to fit your track formations, as has been mentioned by others above. 

 

Unless you are using the old fashioned style 3/4inch chipboard solid top construction then weight is less likely to be an issue in determining max size but long-term manoeuvrability and the ability to access both sides and underneath for wiring/construction and then long term for any maintenance or design changes is important. 

 

Hope these notes based on experience help.

 

The "twisted kite" staircase is the reason why Houghton Street ended up at 22" wide. Fortunately my Cassandra Syndrome allowed me to foresee the problem and I knocked up a full size 3D model from scrap ply and timber to see if my 60x24x18 inch projected boards would go upstairs before cutting any expensive birch plywood.