GMRC Series 2 - Episode 1 - 'The Restless Earth'

[phil-b259]

7 hours ago, Budgie said:

 

I thought that yesterday's episode showed that the ethos hasn't really changed since the previous series. As I see it modellers build layouts that depict either a real scene or a freelance scene that is a real scene in the modellers' imagination. What we have had up to now is scenes that are fantastical and not real. For example, we don't have active volcanos in the UK, and we don't get many earthquakes and sinkholes that affect the railway.

 

One of the judges is the editor of the Railway Modeller. I mention this as RM has published many "plans of the month", and it seems to me that the challenge would be better if the teams were given a selection of these plans and told to choose one to model. This way we would see how people build models that could go on the exhibition circuit, and be exhibited for several years. A good example of what I am thinking of is "Recycle by Rail" in the October 2019 issue of RM, even though that is in N gauge, and the challenge seems to be all in OO.

 

I'd be interested to hear what other folks have to say about this idea.

 

With my railway modellers hat on I would say its a cracking idea. HOWEVER.....

 

As an 'ordinary viewer' whose knowledge of model railways is a Hornby train set it wouldn't make for interesting TV.

 

As has been mentioned the whole premise of the series is to do something like 'Bake Off' for trains. On that show they don't go round telling each contestant exactly what to bake each week do they? No, its up to the contestants to be creative, which is important because the idea behind all such TV shows its to promote creativity by the participants as this increases the chances of someone either making an absolute stunner or it all going horribly wrong. TV thrives on controversy - raw emotion pulls folk in and being too prescriptive takes away the opportunity for individuals to shine in front of the camera.

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, Neil said:

For those not impressed, who think there's not enough 'proper' railway modelling taking place, then please consider the time constraints that we were working under. You'll see me later on in this series, on the 27th I believe, and while I hope you'd consider me to be a 'proper' modeller it won't give any game away if I tell you that the work of mine you see here on RMweb takes far longer to do than the time allowed by the filming schedule.

 

 

 

I don't think the criticism is aimed at the participants - rather some dislike the tone / editing / presenting style of the show itself. To be fair if the two male presenters spent less time fooling around and less 'random scenes of Fawley' padding out each bit, then there would have been a little bit more time to go into the modelling side of things more.

 

It is what it is though - a TV programmed for the masses deliberately designed to attract non modellers

 

What would be nice though if anyone at Channel 5 wanted to do it, would be to offer a 'directors cut' version (for want of a better phrase) for sale on DVD / Blu-Ray / download / etc. Without the need for adverts interrupting the programme (plus the need to 'explain' what the show was about every 15 minutes) it would be possible to add in extra modelling content.

[phil-b259]

24 minutes ago, noiseboy72 said:

The budget was generous - and you wonder what the Train Set spent theirs on, given they had 1 operational DMU and little else to show. I think we managed 5 locos, 2 coaches, 9 goods wagons and a couple of guards vans with the same money!

 

They did spend a LOT of effort on the scenics though. I admit as they were all a bunch of newcomers I was rooting for them - if only to show the 'ordinary viewers' that anyone can produce amazing modelling if they put their mind to it.

 

Its like when you get a novice baker on bake off (as opposed to someone who has been baking cakes at home for decades), the 'you can do it too' vibe is very uplifting.

 

That said it cannot be denied that the 'railway' element was small so I see why they didn't win out in the end.

Edited September 14, 2019 by phil-b259

[icphotos]

3 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

What would be nice though if anyone at Channel 5 wanted to do it, would be to offer a 'directors cut' version (for want of a better phrase) for sale on DVD / Blu-Ray / download / etc. Without the need for adverts interrupting the programme (plus the need to 'explain' what the show was about every 15 minutes) it would be possible to add in extra modelling content.

 

There is the Peco guidebook to the series, which isn't too bad as a "next steps guide" 

[hmrspaul]

Channel 5 are really pushing this - watching a programme about Pompei destruction and they have advertised the show in every break.

 

Personally I don't understand why they spend so much time showing the 12in. to the foot toy train! Same bits of film over and over and not heritage railways greatest hour.

 

As to the show, well I cannot see where the extra time went and, I may be biased, but I thought the Train sets modelling was the winner; the volcano and 3D backscene clever and the river and sea front the best modelling actually done during the show. They were robbed of the scratch build 2 points. 

 

Mind, I spent some time looking out for wagons based on my photos

 

Paul

Edited September 14, 2019 by hmrspaul

[ColinK]

Just watched it on catch up, very entertaining and really enjoyed it.

 

Those cliffs, wonderful modelling which might get other modellers trying to achieve something just as good.  That backscene, superb and innovative, another idea for us to consider.

 

Perhaps the programme will bring new people and new ideas into the hobby which has to be good.  I suspect it will improve the ‘public perception’ of railway modellers and railway enthusiasts too.

[melmerby]

5 hours ago, sharris said:

The rather more haunted wing of Freeview appears to have a few craft channels.

Even those concentrate on that which brings the most return.

When I first saw "Create & Craft" it was a compendium of different crafts including metalwork, woodwork, (oil) painting and other such things.

Now it should be re-named "Create & Paper Craft" as that's mostly what it seems to cover nowadays, sometimes we get sewing machines.

 

 

[melmerby]

The subject underwhelmed me but the teams efforts to realise it were interesting.

The  TrainSet did very well as novices, Personally I thought Corby got an easy ride from the judges, I would have marked them down more for failures, during final judging.

 

And has been repeated by others, a show designed to entertain the typical C5 viewer and not model railway enthusiasts.

IMHO "proper" railway modelling would go down like a lead balloon, audience wise.

[TravisM]

What the programmes don’t show is the pure hard slog it was over the three days of filming.  We were at Fawley for 8am and it wasn’t unusual to still be there working 11-12 hours later, though the judges and presenters had gone by 5pm.  The Knickerbockerglory crew worked their socks off and several said they wouldn’t see their families, boyfriends, girlfriends for nearly two weeks.

[Pacific231G]

I've just watched the first episode and I'm a bit underwhelmed. Though there have been some tweaks and a useful increase in length  I just didn't feel that it has developed enough from last year and, if this episode had been slotted in amongst series one I'm not sure I'd have really noticed the difference.

 

I can't quite put my finger on why this is and subsequent programmes may change my view but if I was its Commissioning Editor or Exec. Producer I'd certainly have asked the production team how they intended to build on the success of the first series. The answer to that question wouldn't have been a few tweaks. Knickerbocker glory is a good production company with an impressive list of credits so did Ch 5 ask them for more of the same? 

 

The presenters are engaging and the judges are both well qualified to assess what the teams are achieving but perhaps being pushed unnecessarily into artifical "roles". I've not seen Steve Flint in any other TV context but he's supposed to be "Stern Steve" and it's fairly obvious that's not really him at all. Kathy comes over far better in her own videos (which are well worth watching) where her own enthusiasm realy shines through so the talent is there and I wonder if the producer or director is either over-producing them or editing their material to fit those roles.  

The teams are also fine, they're all enthusiastic and reasonably skilled modellers (though Britain's best modellers ? perhaps not)   but it strikes me that the big difference between this and the cookery competitions like Bake Off is that in those people are using their skills to do what they normally do but under time pressured competition conditions. In this series, partly because the time pressures are so much greater,  the task is very different from "normal" modelling but I wonder if it could more closely reflect those skills which I think the general public can recognise when they see it.

 

We all seem to be saying, well this series is for the general public and not for us but, if we include model-making in all its aspects and certainly if we include craft hobbies in general, "us" probably includes  much if not most of the programme's audience. I don't hear enthusiastic  cooks and people who are really into baking saying that programmes like "bake-off" are for the general audience and not for us even though it's probably also enjoyed by many people who never go near the oven.   

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Pacific231G

[phil-b259]

15 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

 

 

We all seem to be saying, well this series is for the general public and not for us but, if we include model-making in all its aspects and certainly if we include craft hobbies in general, "us" probably includes  much if not most of the programme's audience. I don't hear enthusiastic  cooks and people who are really into baking saying that programmes like "bake-off" are for the general audience and not for us even though it's probably also enjoyed by many people who never go near the oven.   

 

 

Bake off was DELIBERATELY pitched at the 'non baking' segment of the viewing public from day 1. From the presenters picked to the set design its all done with an eye to having a bit of fun rather than being all deadpan serious.

 

While it may have changed slightly from its original incarnation (with Loyd Grosman), Masterchef is a better example of something more pitched towards enthusiastic cooks.

[Pacific231G]

3 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Bake off was DELIBERATELY pitched at the 'non baking' segment of the viewing public from day 1. From the presenters picked to the set design its all done with an eye to having a bit of fun rather than being all deadpan serious.

 

While it may have changed slightly from its original incarnation (with Loyd Grosman), Masterchef is a better example of something more pitched towards enthusiastic cooks.

Heaven forbid that GMRC should be deadpan serious but my point is that Bake Off was always enjoyed by people who enjoy baking as well (and you don't have to be a keen cook to enjoy Masterchef either). In my career I've directed plenty of how-to cookery items (including wih Loyd Grossman) and you do go into far more detail for those than you ever would for something like this. Nevertheless, "inspires you to have a go" can be fun and doesn't have to be as detailed as a "how to". (Even so I do wish more directors would learn to use tight close-up. Despite being shot multi-camera,  James May's reassembler series  was particularly bad for not letting you see what he was doing)  

[sb67]

7 hours ago, icphotos said:

 

There is the Peco guidebook to the series, which isn't too bad as a "next steps guide" 

 

Has anyone read the Peco book? That seem's a good idea to follow on and give people a bit more info on the hobby although I didn't recall seeing it plugged on the show, could have missed it though.

Steve

[Neil]

5 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Heaven forbid that GMRC should be deadpan serious but my point is that Bake Off was always enjoyed by people who enjoy baking as well (and you don't have to be a keen cook to enjoy Masterchef either). In my career I've directed plenty of how-to cookery items (including wih Loyd Grossman) and you do go into far more detail for those than you ever would for something like this. Nevertheless, "inspires you to have a go" can be fun and doesn't have to be as detailed as a "how to". (Even so I do wish more directors would learn to use tight close-up. Despite being shot multi-camera,  James May's reassembler series  was particularly bad for not letting you see what he was doing)  

 

I wonder if Bake Off is the best analogy for GMRC?  The best I can come up with so far would be Scrapheap Challenge. The engineer in me used to wince at some of the bodges, the results had no sense of permanence or long term desirability but it was fun to watch.

[noiseboy72]

The Train Set lost out because although their scenic elements were good, they simply didn't run enough trains!

 

The marking scheme awards points for functionality of both the animations and layout as a whole. I think that's potentially where Corby picked up points, as they could run trains - even if their smoke unit packed up on the volcano! 

 

Getting the track down properly and well ballasted also gets you build points. We spent hours on getting ours as we wanted it, not running trains until quite late on. Stern Steve doesn't like poorly laid track and does mention it during the build - both off camera and on. If this isn't proper railway modelling, I'm not sure what is.

 

The themes are suggested by the commissioning editor rather than the production company. We actually liked our theme for heat 5 and all 3 teams showed a different approach and created 3 very different layouts. I think in this first program, the end results have been quite similar with a lot of overlap in ideas. I know in discussion with the production company they try to get us to build really different layouts to show the widest range of creativity possible.

 

A big well done to all 3 teams in heat 1, may all the other heats be equally entertaining!

[noiseboy72]

14 hours ago, sharris said:

This may have been asked in the last series, I can't remember, but may I ask of anyone who's been involved this year - regarding the pre-builds, is there a fixed budget and timescale you're expected to keep to for these parts to ensure a level playing field in this respect?

In terms of budget, this is very generous and you can supplement it up to a certain level AND supply any stock of your own.

 

It was quite obvious to us that some pre builds have been lifted off existing layouts and not built specifically for the show, but this minor rule bending does give better quality models. 

 

We made a point of using construction techniques that pretty much anyone could attempt. Yes, there's Metcalf kits in abundance, but we modified them all. We wanted to encourage people to think differently about model railways and just what can be constructed.

[whart57]

10 hours ago, noiseboy72 said:

The budget was generous - and you wonder what the Train Set spent theirs on, given they had 1 operational DMU and little else to show. I think we managed 5 locos, 2 coaches, 9 goods wagons and a couple of guards vans with the same money!

 

Most of the stuff we bought from Hornby and Bachmann didn't have wheels. And in the end we didn't get much time in the presentation stage to actually run trains anyway.

[caradoc]

I agree absolutely regarding the importance of good track; If I was involved (which I'm not likely to be !) the track layout would be as simple as possible,; Certainly as many (independent) circuits as necessary but no points on operational sections, and track wired and tested as early in the build as possible.

[Torper]

So The Train Set had a derailment - well, what did the organisers expect?  The Train Set had one person who had two years experience of railway modelling and four others who were complete novices.  The Corby team, on the other hand, were all experienced modellers - inevitably, their trains were likely to run better although even then they had one inintentional derailment and a train got stuck in a tunnel.  Yet in spite of their inexperience The Train Set gave us far and away the best scenic modelling with their cliffs, beach, sea and river, and their volcano was stunning, whileas Corby's didn't work.  Personally I'd have given it to the Train Set, and I do wonder what the point is of pitting novices against experience modellers if no allowance (or handicap in golfing terms) is to be made.

 

DT

Edited September 15, 2019 by Torper
Typo

[noiseboy72]

25 minutes ago, Torper said:

So The Train Set had a derailment - well, what did the organisers expect?  The Train Set had one person who had two years experience of railway morning and four others who were complete novices.  The Corby team, on the other hand, were all experienced modellers - inevitably, their trains were likely to run better although even then they had one unintentional derailment and a train got stuck in a tunnel.  Yet in spite of their inexperience The Train Set gave us far and away the best scenic modelling with their cliffs, beach, sea and river, and their volcano was stunning, whileas Corby's didn't work.  Personally I'd have given it to the Train Set, and I do wonder what the point is of pitting novices against experience modellers if no allowance (or handicap in golfing terms) is to be made.

 

DT

Yes, I kind of accept that, but they were shown on the programme attacking the catch point with a jigsaw! That's not just inexperience, that's a little bit foolhardy, but I guess the panic was building at that point...

 

I think there's probably aspects of the build that we didn't see that influenced the judges. The film crews don't know what the judges might have picked up on and are discussing when they are doing the closeup shots post judging,, so it's possible that some deciding factors are not be picked up, so don't make it into the edit. 

 

I would loved to have seen them in the semis, so fingers crossed... 

[MarkSG]

22 hours ago, TheQ said:

I notice pre-built houses seem To be standard Metcalfe  , if you're going to pre build then you should have "finescaled" the pre build.. This is a modelling competition.. 

 

As has already been said, Metcalfe are one of the sponsors so there's a specific budget for their kits which can't be spent on anything else. It doesn't stop people using other stuff, but that has to come out of other funds.

 

Realistically, Metcalfe is probably the largest range of building kits so it makes sense to use them. I would expect that the judges do take account of how well they've been put together and how effectively they've been integrated into the layout. I know they're not necessarily the most realistic of models, at least not without a fair bit of customisation, but they do stretch your skills somewhat more than using RTP buildings!

 

I suspect that the time pressures make it difficult to scratch-build much in advance, particularly given that the pre-build probably has to be focussed mainly on the big set piece elements that will be a key part of the theme rather than just background material.

 

Also, card kits are precisely the kind of "next step up from ready to run" that marks the start of a journey from train sets to railway modelling. One of the things that I hope people who just "play with trains" will get out of this series is that you can do a lot more than just an oval of track on a flat rectangular baseboard - if it encourages them to take scenery seriously, then that's a good thing.

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

13 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Bake off was DELIBERATELY pitched at the 'non baking' segment of the viewing public from day 1. From the presenters picked to the set design its all done with an eye to having a bit of fun rather than being all deadpan serious.

 

While it may have changed slightly from its original incarnation (with Loyd Grosman), Masterchef is a better example of something more pitched towards enthusiastic cooks.

 

13 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

Heaven forbid that GMRC should be deadpan serious but my point is that Bake Off was always enjoyed by people who enjoy baking as well (and you don't have to be a keen cook to enjoy Masterchef either). In my career I've directed plenty of how-to cookery items (including wih Loyd Grossman) and you do go into far more detail for those than you ever would for something like this.  

I'm slightly concerned by the amount of detailed culinary television knowledge displayed on this forum. I'm beginning to feel a bit inadequate.

 

I can, however, boil an egg (usually).

 

2 hours ago, Torper said:

one person who had two years experience of railway morning

Personally, I find that I usually produce better modelling after 12.30 pm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Sorry, couldn't help that one).

 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Captain Kernow

[Phil Bullock]

Just watched this on catch up.

 

Its formulaic - as has already been pointed out with bake off and scrapheap challenge - hence the continual imposition of "deadlines" to create tension....

 

But it works for the public at large..... SWMBO enjoyed it with me over lunch today. All the way through I pointed out that the train set would suffer for not having running trains and so it proved. But its a bit of fun. And maximum kudos to all involved as no doubt the production must be very trying.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[Keith Addenbrooke]

16 hours ago, jools1959 said:

What the programmes don’t show is the pure hard slog it was over the three days of filming.  We were at Fawley for 8am and it wasn’t unusual to still be there working 11-12 hours later, though the judges and presenters had gone by 5pm.  The Knickerbockerglory crew worked their socks off and several said they wouldn’t see their families, boyfriends, girlfriends for nearly two weeks.

 

For me - full credit to those who've stepped forwards and taken on the challenge, and put themselves in the public eye.  As a fan of micro-layouts, I've tried measuring out a space 5' x 10' at home just to imagine what it would be like trying to cover it in the time available.*

 

I often ask operators how big their layouts are at exhibitions - as what seems moderate in a public hall is almost invariably bigger than I think.  I suspect there's something of the same effect here, with the size of the layouts (and hence the task) looking smaller to me watching from afar than they must feel to the layout builders in the competition, due to a combination of the effects of the larger space at Fawley and then the predominance of close-up camera shots.

 

I was impressed by what all three teams were able to achieve in the first heat - and it did seem to me that a close result was a fair one.  Well done to Corby, with a special mention for the scenic work with the river and the seaside / beach / cliffs on the Train Set layout.

________________________________

* even allowing for the preparatory work done in advance, it still looks incredibly ambitious.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Keith Addenbrooke
Grammar

[LNER4479]

4 hours ago, caradoc said:

I agree absolutely regarding the importance of good track; If I was involved (which I'm not likely to be !) the track layout would be as simple as possible,; Certainly as many (independent) circuits as necessary but no points on operational sections, and track wired and tested as early in the build as possible.

Ah yes, but if you do have points and they work (remotely) that scores you points (oops - pun not intended!) for functionality and a bit of build quality. That was our experience (Heat 5), Stern Steve certainly appreciating such aspects - which provides some reassurance that railway modelling IS an important aspect.