69843 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 G'day all, One that I think will interest a fair few people on here and beyond. Upon a recent visit with a very good friend, we came onto the topic (whilst running his custom made HO Deltics) of the Budd license car, Silver Princess. It was mentioned by this gentlemen that he so happened to have a few photographs of this car, and off he proceeded to find them. His search in person failed to find the photographs, but he did pull out a full, period Budd catalogue, which contained within a VERY clear photograph of Silver Princess, and what is probably the most commonly known photograph of the car since it was published in the John Dunn Comeng book (Vol 2: 1955-1966). Upon returning back home, I received an email from the gentleman which contained the other 7 photographs of the car. These photographs are below, split over a few posts. They are uploaded at full resolution as much as possible to allow all the detail to be retained. If anybody has drawings of the car in either original form as shown, or later rebuilt form with smooth sides, I would be very much interested in seeing them with the intention to create a small number of models of the car. Photographs in later condition (even in Crimson and Cream prior to rebuilding with smooth sides) would also be very much of interest. 8 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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69843 Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 11 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2019 Amazing pictures of what must've seemed like the 'jet age' at the time. Thanks for posting them and thanks to your friend too, for sharing them 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 There was an article with a drawing in the January 1980 Railway Modeller. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin_m Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, BernardTPM said: There was an article with a drawing in the January 1980 Railway Modeller. But beware, there are errors in this drawing, easily identifiable from these photographs. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) As I am without access to those drawings, a few questions leap to mind... Was it supplied with those bogies or are they the BR1 type they look like. Budd had already moved on to coil springs and equilizer beams by the build date so I think an opportunity was missed considering what was learned later about the BR1 ride. Is it possibly a Budd body on a Mk1 frame? (A closer look at the pics on a PC not a phone show it was lifted off the ship with them fitted... Also, it has no buffers but that appears to be where the lifting equipment is attached and they must have fitted later) Is it 63ft? It looks very short (like 57ft BG looks next to a Mk1 coach). What happened to it? Budd cars from the 50s are still in use in the US and Canada (though probably much like Trigger's broom after multiple refurbishment rebuilds) and seem to have lasted rather better than the Mk2 and Mk4 series, though no doubt the intensity of use has been far greater in UK. It might have been a very different looking railway if Britain could have or wanted to afford these. It would be interesting to know if there were any licence productions considered. Edited September 10, 2019 by daveyb Answered my own question!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2019 Crikey? What is this? And, more importantly - when? I have somewhere a 9-car HO California Zephyr by Budd, who were busy before the war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Now that looks better than an Azuma any day comfortable seats and good environment shame they were not bought. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1947. Originally tested on the LMS, LNER and in Ireland. Later rebuilt with smooth sides as a lounge/bar car and used on the expresses to Ireland (Shamrock and Ulster Express). Jason 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2019 So pre-dating the Mk1 significantly... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2019 A quick google found this... https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/4948-did-anyone-ever-hear-of-the-silver-princess/ 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2019 I thought somewhere in the above it said that the sides were reclad with flat material. Presumably that was when it was repainted, so possibly it was not in red and cream or maroon with corrugated sides. Does that make sense? Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, daveyb said: Was it supplied with those bogies or are they the BR1 type they look like. It would be interesting to know if there were any licence productions considered. They were the welded version of the LMS standard bogie. If production had gone ahead in the UK they would have been built by Pressed Steel Co. Ltd. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, martin_m said: But beware, there are errors in this drawing, easily identifiable from these photographs. It is always good to be wary of drawings. That applies to manufacturers' drawings too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2019 Didn't realise it had a third class saloon and first class compartments. It looks to be of integral construction so reskinning it must have been quite a big job unless these they just put the fresh metal over the original 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balders Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Courtesy of Robert Carroll on Flikr. Regards Guy 11 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2019 Cool, really like the look of that and it must have been a jaw dropper compared to the drab and probably very dirty post war coaches. Does anyone have a timeline for it, from when it arrived to withdrawal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
balders Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, jools1959 said: Cool, really like the look of that and it must have been a jaw dropper compared to the drab and probably very dirty post war coaches. Does anyone have a timeline for it, from when it arrived to withdrawal? June 1966 according to Longworth. Converted to a bar-car in 1956, from a composite. Regards Guy Edited September 10, 2019 by balders 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 10, 2019 Also from Robert Carroll's wonderful collection is this photo of it after being rebuilt Does anyone know of a photo showing the other side. 8 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2019 3 hours ago, daveyb said: As I am without access to those drawings, a few questions leap to mind... Was it supplied with those bogies or are they the BR1 type they look like. Budd had already moved on to coil springs and equilizer beams by the build date so I think an opportunity was missed considering what was learned later about the BR1 ride. Is it possibly a Budd body on a Mk1 frame? (A closer look at the pics on a PC not a phone show it was lifted off the ship with them fitted... Also, it has no buffers but that appears to be where the lifting equipment is attached and they must have fitted later) Is it 63ft? It looks very short (like 57ft BG looks next to a Mk1 coach). What happened to it? Budd cars from the 50s are still in use in the US and Canada (though probably much like Trigger's broom after multiple refurbishment rebuilds) and seem to have lasted rather better than the Mk2 and Mk4 series, though no doubt the intensity of use has been far greater in UK. It might have been a very different looking railway if Britain could have or wanted to afford these. It would be interesting to know if there were any licence productions considered. Google and some links have answered most of the questions. It was a 63'6" frame, the bogies were LMS (thanks Bernard TPM) design (though still fairly primitive by Budd Standards) and it lasted until 1966. Pressed Steel became involved in DMU production and later were absorbed into BLMC /BMC /BL along with Metal Box. Had they done much railway work before then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold daveyb Posted September 10, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2019 http://www.pueblorailway.org/Pueblo Railway Museum - Budd Company.html It's is mentioned in here which is an interesting read 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark54 Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said: Also from Robert Carroll's wonderful collection is this photo of it after being rebuilt Does anyone know of a photo showing the other side. There is a 2 page feature in the December 2007 Backtrack with the other side. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 More about Pressed Steel here. The connection with Budd goes back some way. I know they built a lot of BR's steel 16t minerals (having seen quite a few in Woodham's scrapyard in 1978). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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