H & M Clipper help required

[Emmo]

Whatever!!

[AndyID]

You're welcome

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, Emmo said:

Jeez, all I asked for was a photograph! So far I have had people telling me what I should use instead, how dangerous H & M units are, how great and safe H & M units are, and now, a physics lesson and a case report on a 21 year old student!! But alas, still no photo of the damn thing! You will all be pleased to know I have given it to a friend to use the case for something else. This topic is now closed.

As you no doubt noticed, H&M controllers are a PITA to access. So those with the knowledge to do so, are the ones least likely to want to use or repurpose, such an elderly box.

Hence the lack of photos, which led to information about the weaknesses of them.

[AndyID]

4 hours ago, sharris said:

 

For a hobby where we regularly use lead and cadmium based alloys and organic solvents, and indeed selenium compounds (e.g. for metal blackening), I think a sense of proportion is called for.

 

Yes, regular exposure to hydrogen selenide may well be harmful, but we're more likely to encounter the whiff of just one rectifier going bad which might make your eyes water if you're too close. After all, your case study said the symptoms went away when the woman's repeated exposure stopped.

 

With ancient electronics I'd be more worried about being electrocuted through cracked and brittle insulation (David's appears to have passed inspection) 

than being gassed by a dodgy rectifier.

 

 

I think it's a question of risk versus reward. We drive cars and that is inherently risky but there are a lot of benefits too. We know there are risks associated with selenium rectifiers, particularly when they are more than fifty years old and they can fail at any time. In fact they will fail eventually if they are powered.

 

But why should we accept any risk when there is a far better alternative now? I know I wouldn't let my grandchildren use a controller with selenium rectifiers. Should I?

[rab]

7 hours ago, Emmo said:

Jeez, all I asked for was a photograph! So far I have had people telling me what I should use instead, how dangerous H & M units are, how great and safe H & M units are, and now, a physics lesson and a case report on a 21 year old student!! But alas, still no photo of the damn thing! You will all be pleased to know I have given it to a friend to use the case for something else. This topic is now closed.

It's called thread drift; it happens a lot on forums.

 

[WIMorrison]

35 minutes ago, rab said:

It's called thread drift; it happens a lot on forums.

 

 

But the OP doesn't like that and has had many of the posts that he doesn't like removed by the mods ...

[RLWP]

20 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

But the OP doesn't like that and has had many of the posts that he doesn't like removed by the mods ...

 

Which is likely to become a self-defeating behaviour. Why respond to someone who has what you say deleted?

 

Richard

[kevinlms]

24 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

But the OP doesn't like that and has had many of the posts that he doesn't like removed by the mods ...

The OP has only made 78 posts, of which 8 of them belong to this thread!

[Oldddudders]

Threads that turn like this are a pity. Prima facie, the OP has asked a reasonable question and sought a very specific resource response. What he has been offered by several members is earnest advice variously about not wasting time on duff kit, and not taking safety risks. Unfortunately he has chosen to resent them daring to do so, rather than smile and say thank you. The drift about the real risks, I suspect, will not have improved his temper. Sigh. 

[Bernard Lamb]

Quote

 

I have only just come across this thread and I do find it of interest, in spite of the deleted posts that render reading between the lines a necessity.

Going slightly OT. What is the expert opinion about using an ancient Powermaster. I use one to power an oval of set track in my work room and use it to test stock. I usually run a small diesel loco round to check bearings, couplings, corridor connectors and such like. Should I ditch it and replace it with a modern transformer and plug in one of my Gaugemaster Ws?

Bernard

[kevinlms]

20 hours ago, dhjgreen said:

I do hope that a true autotransfomer is not used.  The definition of an autotransformer is that it has only one winding and therefore no isolation from the mains!

That one word is the incorrect one. The rest of the statement is 100% right. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I would just keep on using it, while it serves the intended purpose satisfactorily. But then I am the sort of guy who still uses an inherited Electrolux cylinder vacuum cleaner that was made before he was born.

[kevinlms]

On 13/09/2019 at 06:53, Emmo said:

I have a picture of the inside of the Duette thanks, it is slightly different to the Clipper unfortunately. Thanks for the offer anyway.

The Clipper is a single controller version of a Duette. According to catalogue i have (the only photo is of the outside of the case!), the only difference is that the Duette has 2 rectifiers & control knobs, so the circuitry should be almost the same.

[WIMorrison]

2 hours ago, RLWP said:

 

Which is likely to become a self-defeating behaviour. Why respond to someone who has what you say deleted?

 

Richard

 

It isn’t just my posts that were deleted - the first of which has 18 people agreeing with it (I suggested that it was propitious to consider replacing it with a newer, safer and more effective controller) but many other posts that were all suggesting similar.

 

This may also be deleted by him, such is life

[RLWP]

5 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

It isn’t just my posts that were deleted - the first of which has 18 people agreeing with it (I suggested that it was propitious to consider replacing it with a newer, safer and more effective controller) but many other posts that were all suggesting similar.

 

This may also be deleted by him, such is life

 

TBH, I don't know how many posts have gone, the whole start of this thread now reads very strangely

 

Somewhere I have an Autotransformer H&M controller - I wonder where it is?

 

Richard (who boiled mercury as a child)

[RedgateModels]

Here you go, hope this helps 🙂

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2022 by RedgateModels

[kevinlms]

45 minutes ago, WIMorrison said:

 

It isn’t just my posts that were deleted - the first of which has 18 people agreeing with it (I suggested that it was propitious to consider replacing it with a newer, safer and more effective controller) but many other posts that were all suggesting similar.

 

This may also be deleted by him, such is life

How can the OP delete other peoples posts, unless he is also a moderator, perhaps with another name? That is scary, if a moderator does delete posts, that he personally doesn't like.

[kevinlms]

41 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

TBH, I don't know how many posts have gone, the whole start of this thread now reads very strangely

 

Somewhere I have an Autotransformer H&M controller - I wonder where it is?

 

No it's a variable transformer, not the same thing. My catalogue shows the Powermaster & Safety Minor Unit as being variable transformer controllers.

 

[dhjgreen]

12 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

No it's a variable transformer, not the same thing. My catalogue shows the Powermaster & Safety Minor Unit as being variable transformer controllers.

 

Irony?  "Boiled mercury as a child"

[RLWP]

20 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

No it's a variable transformer, not the same thing. My catalogue shows the Powermaster & Safety Minor Unit as being variable transformer controllers.

 

 

It is - I didn't dig back far enough through the thread to find the correct title

 

7 minutes ago, dhjgreen said:

Irony?  "Boiled mercury as a child"

 

It's quite true. I remember doing this as a young teenager in a friends cellar. The boiling point is around 350C so not too hard to achieve

I would strongly recommend people don't do this

 

Richard

[sharris]

2 hours ago, dhjgreen said:

Irony?  "Boiled mercury as a child"

 

On the other hand, irony's boiling point is 2862 Celciusy.

[RLWP]

6 minutes ago, sharris said:

 

On the other hand, irony's boiling point is 2862 Celciusy.

 

I've melted iron but never boiled it. I've vaporized zinc though* - I wouldn't recommend that either, gives you a terrible headache

 

Richard

 

*welding up a galvanized quench tank for blacksmithing

[AndyID]

20 hours ago, RedgateModels said:

Here you go, hope this helps

 

 

 

 

If you drilled out the rivets I'm pretty sure you've invalidated the warranty.

 

 

[AndyID]

19 hours ago, RLWP said:

 

It's quite true. I remember doing this as a young teenager in a friends cellar. The boiling point is around 350C so not too hard to achieve

 

 

That's nuthin. I put meths in my Mamod's boiler and converted it into a flame thrower. (DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT TRYING THIS AT HOME!)

 

(Apologies for the drift.)

[Hroth]

2 minutes ago, AndyID said:

That's nuthin. I put meths in my Mamod's boiler and converted it into a flame thrower. (DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT TRYING THIS AT HOME!)

 

Which just goes to show that you should Read The Flippin' Manual (or the little instruction leaflet you got with a Mamod engine) before attempting to fuel the beast! 

p.s. How far did the flames go?

 

Veering wildly back on topic, I've a Clipper and a Duette that are suffering from worn resistance mats and was toying with the idea of opening them up and trying to do something about them. Having seen the innards of the Clipper posted above, I've decided that the best option would be to drill out the rivets, discard the internals and use the cases to contain new electronic gubbins.  That seems the safest option!