Mark Saunders Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Northumbrianviking said: This is an exceptional model, and the excitement of how it will develop moving forward will keep me glued on here for updates. Do I continue with my plans for a model of Fenwick pit and the East Holywell/Backworth general area. Or do I just sit back and admire yours I've already been working on rolling stock and engines. Keep up the great work. It would be nice to see some photo's of your Backworth wagons? Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northumbrianviking Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark Saunders said: It would be nice to see some photo's of your Backworth wagons? Mark Saunders The RTR wagon was from http://www.robbiesrollingstock.co.uk/Northern.htm, the NER 21T wooden hopper is a kit from the 2mm Scale Association, with other suitable stock available from here and the N Gauge Society or even RTR from GF/Peco/Dapol etc. just requiring a re-paint. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 8 hours ago, Northumbrianviking said: This is an exceptional model, and the excitement of how it will develop moving forward will keep me glued on here for updates. Do I continue with my plans for a model of Fenwick pit and the East Holywell/Backworth general area. Or do I just sit back and admire yours I've already been working on rolling stock and engines. Keep up the great work. Thanks for your very kind words, Andrew. If you do Eccles/Maude, B- & C-Pit, and finish off with the Hotspur Brickworks, I'll happily tag the Fenwick on We may need to rent St James' Park to get it to scale, but from what I hear it's not getting much use at the moment! And thanks for the link to Robbie's Rolling Stock. A few of those wagons will get me started at least, although I'm planning on badging everything NCB if I ever get that far. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 6 hours ago, Northumbrianviking said: The RTR wagon was from http://www.robbiesrollingstock.co.uk/Northern.htm, the NER 21T wooden hopper is a kit from the 2mm Scale Association, with other suitable stock available from here and the N Gauge Society or even RTR from GF/Peco/Dapol etc. just requiring a re-paint. As far as I can tell the only wagons lettered Backworth were the 15 ton hoppers! Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianblenk Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 No 6 En route to Fenwick march 1967. nice mix of wagons in tow. Ian B 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, ianblenk said: No 6 En route to Fenwick march 1967. nice mix of wagons in tow. Ian B Agree a pleasant mix, 5 Backworth 15 ton hoppers, 1 Charles Roberts 16t NCB hopper, 1 Charles Roberts NCB 21 ton hoper and 1 Standard Wagon all timber postwar built hopper! The Charles Roberts 16 ton hopper is available in 4mm from Dave Bradwell, and the 21 ton one a body kit available Dave Bradwell designed for a Parkside chassis but an etched one is made by Rhumney models! The 16 ton hopper is almost certainly one of six built for the Rising Sun, all others were for the Durham area but the Charles Roberts order books are missing as are the lettering diagrams. Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Mark Saunders said: Agree a pleasant mix, 5 Backworth 15 ton hoppers, 1 Charles Roberts 16t NCB hopper, 1 Charles Roberts NCB 21 ton hoper and 1 Standard Wagon all timber postwar built hopper! The Charles Roberts 16 ton hopper is available in 4mm from Dave Bradwell, and the 21 ton one a body kit available Dave Bradwell designed for a Parkside chassis but an etched one is made by Rhumney models! The 16 ton hopper is almost certainly one of six built for the Rising Sun, all others were for the Durham area but the Charles Roberts order books are missing as are the lettering diagrams. Mark Saunders Thanks for the explanation (and the photo, @ianblenk) but which is which? I'm new to this. I can guess the 15t hoppers, because there are five of them, and I know the black thing at the front is something else... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Geordie Exile said: Thanks for the explanation (and the photo, @ianblenk) but which is which? I'm new to this. I can guess the 15t hoppers, because there are five of them, and I know the black thing at the front is something else... In order from loco, 2 Backworth, 1 CR 16t, 1 Backworth, 1 CR 21 ton, 1 SRW 19t all timber, 1 Backworth. The Charles Roberts 16 ton ones are an uprated and heightened 13 ton hopper and both are almost identical to the BR one that is due from Parkside; the difference is independent brakes rather than Morton with blocks on one side only and different stanchions bases at the sides! Mark Saunders 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark Saunders said: In order from loco, 2 Backworth, 1 CR 16t, 1 Backworth, 1 CR 21 ton, 1 SRW 19t all timber, 1 Backworth. The Charles Roberts 16 ton ones are an uprated and heightened 13 ton hopper and both are almost identical to the BR one that is due from Parkside; the difference is independent brakes rather than Morton with blocks on one side only and different stanchions bases at the sides! Mark Saunders Hmmm. Do I google "stanchion bases" or do I ask...? At the risk of sounding like Donald Rumsfeld, there's a whole list of unknown unknowns in the world of rolling stock. Meanwhile, I'm still counting bricks on my heapstead... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Geordie Exile said: Hmmm. Do I google "stanchion bases" or do I ask...? At the risk of sounding like Donald Rumsfeld, there's a whole list of unknown unknowns in the world of rolling stock. Meanwhile, I'm still counting bricks on my heapstead... Stanchions the vertical sections of steel used to support the sides! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Better photographs showing a Roberts 16t & 21t hoppers! These are Durham No6 area wagons at Derwenthaugh. Mark Saunders 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Plus one of the SRW built tipplers, this is one that had doors added! This one is now conserved at Tanfield. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted October 20, 2019 Author Share Posted October 20, 2019 That'll do for now. Will add a walkway & access ladder for the headgear, but otherwise that's pretty much it. The thread will probably go quiet for a bit as I've now got to convert the photos of the screens into plans, somehow. And I really ought to walk the dog. 14 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted December 7, 2019 Author Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) Gosh - 6 weeks have gone by, and real life has sort of got in the way, but I've made a start on the screens. This is the prototype: The screens were made up of three elements; two in the same orientation as the heapstead, with the third at 90 degrees and feeding the washery. I'm doing one building at a time - they're made more challenging by the clearly indented I-beams with the brickwork sandwiched in between. I've not managed to track down any photos of the northern aspect, so I've assumed they're the same on both aspects (although the middle building is set back, but appears flush with the northern side, if that makes sense). Anyway: two walls complete... The "stilts" are deliberately oversized - I can trim them once I get a sense of how the whole building relates to the height of the heapstead. Edited December 7, 2019 by Geordie Exile 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 Main shell of the screens complete. The windows are glazed, but interiors are blackened. Obviously lacking a roof (so not liable for council tax at this stage), plus some detailing and lick of paint... 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 OK, that the screens done. I'll not connect them to the pithead with conveyors until they're all embedded in the layout. (What layout? The one in my head at the moment.) The picture seems to overemphasise the weathering; it's a lot less harsh in better light. And this is how the winding house, pithead and screens look in context: So - on to the washery. It's lurking in the back of the photo on the PC in the previous post. The slurry settling inverted cone thing with its latticework is going to be fun. 9 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I don't know if these will help but a couple of pics taken at Fenwick pit by me in the early seventies No.16 in typical Backworth condition running along beside the road pulling a cut of wagons away from the screens. This loco is now at Tanfield but "preserved" is perhaps an optimistic description of its status, though it has had a coat of grey paint slapped on it. Austerity No.9 at the bottom end of the Fenwick layout - shows how the road ran alongside the railway. Again the loco in spotless Backworth condition. In 2mm I suggest a Farish WD with an RT models upgrade kit. Alternately there is a 2mm finescale kit for a WD saddletank - see Mr Simon's workbench. This loco is now at the Strathspey Railway. as "CAIRNGORM" Another of No.9 shunting. Note the two wooden-bodied hoppers not unlike the 2mm kit. The last two were taken from part-way up the tip. Fenwick wasn't served by BR locos, just NCB ones from Backworth shed - all spotless in the seventies. RSH outside-cylindered locos 16 and 44 plus austerities 6, 9, 48 and 49 of which 49 was green as per the Hornby OO model. All six of these are preserved. Hope all this helps. The buildings look magnificent. Keep up the good work. Les 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 Thanks, @Les1952 Those photos are really useful, much appreciated. They kept their locos clean, though but! (I'm almost disappointed. If anything shouts "toy trains" it's unweathered rolling stock, so I may - eventually - give mine a gentle dusting.) I've seen a couple of pictures that hint at different levels of track, but the third photo above really shows it, which explains why the clearance of my own wagons under the screens seems so tight. The pictures will also really help when I come to ballasting. There's another recent thread on industrial track which ties in neatly with this topic. I almost don't need to bother with sleepers. Thanks again. Have a cracking Christmas. Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 (edited) A couple more of the locos, this time at Backworth. No.9 and No.6 ourside the shed showing just how clean they were at that time. A little mud and dust on the footsteps from the shunters' boots but that is about all. Note the shading on the "wrong" side of the letters and numbers - except oddly, the 9. Slighty less clean No.44 at the junction where the Fenwick branch left the line to a former colliery since closed, by the seventies used for storage/exchange. Fenwick is in the distance. Note this is a 17-inch cylindered loco while No.16 was 18" and that bit bigger. 44 was the tattiest one I saw in service before the downturn of the last couple of months, apart from a disgustingly filthy No.9 just after it arrived from Burradon. No.47, named "Moorbarrow" in preservation was a twin of No.44 and also worked at Backworth for a time, later being transferred to Whittle where it was run into the ground. Taken shortly before the end of steam at Backworth, this is about as dirty as locos were allowed to get, but it shows the wooden cab shutters in use. One can be just about made out on the roof of No.9 in the first set of pics. Incidentally, the Class 14 model by Farish of D9555 is appropriate as after sale by BR it was allocated to Burradon and certainly got as far as backworth. I had a cab ride on it from Burradon to Backworth "C" and got to drive it part of the way. This also shows that some of the red wagons were allowed to get a bit faded. Plenty of BR 21-tonners to weather almost out of existence, though. These would stop the train set look- and the D95xx locos weren't cleaned (mostly). All the very best Les Edited December 25, 2019 by Les1952 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 This thread is fast turning into an archive for future reference when the layout is started. No doubt it'll be years in the making, but hopefully 2020 will actually see some track laid. Thanks to everyone for your encouragement, feedback and photos. Richard 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 Oh, and I went with Mike @maridunian's suggestion of 3D printed sheaves from Shapeways. The chap came up with a 28mm diameter version which fit beautifully, so I ordered them as my Christmas present to myself! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 On 25/12/2019 at 10:39, Les1952 said: A couple more of the locos, this time at Backworth. No.9 and No.6 ourside the shed showing just how clean they were at that time. A little mud and dust on the footsteps from the shunters' boots but that is about all. Note the shading on the "wrong" side of the letters and numbers - except oddly, the 9. Slighty less clean No.44 at the junction where the Fenwick branch left the line to a former colliery since closed, by the seventies used for storage/exchange. Fenwick is in the distance. Note this is a 17-inch cylindered loco while No.16 was 18" and that bit bigger. 44 was the tattiest one I saw in service before the downturn of the last couple of months, apart from a disgustingly filthy No.9 just after it arrived from Burradon. No.47, named "Moorbarrow" in preservation was a twin of No.44 and also worked at Backworth for a time, later being transferred to Whittle where it was run into the ground. Taken shortly before the end of steam at Backworth, this is about as dirty as locos were allowed to get, but it shows the wooden cab shutters in use. One can be just about made out on the roof of No.9 in the first set of pics. Incidentally, the Class 14 model by Farish of D9555 is appropriate as after sale by BR it was allocated to Burradon and certainly got as far as backworth. I had a cab ride on it from Burradon to Backworth "C" and got to drive it part of the way. This also shows that some of the red wagons were allowed to get a bit faded. Plenty of BR 21-tonners to weather almost out of existence, though. These would stop the train set look- and the D95xx locos weren't cleaned (mostly). All the very best Les If anybody's interested, the large building in the background of the portrait of no.48 [which also appears in a number of other photies of the south end of the Eccles site is still in existence and currently houses the vet I take my dogs to. The trackwork has gone of course and immediately to the north what would be the station throat on the big railway has been obliterated by a new by-pass. However, some of it [not very much] can still be traced heading south and next time I go across there I'm going to collect a bag of the grit-sized ballast for my layout. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 (edited) B*gger! Opened the desk drawers today after several weeks of not modelling, with the intention of playing and starting the washery. Found that a mouse had nibbled through a small glue container in the middle drawer, and a large bottle of PVA in the bottom drawer! The combination of several weeks' worth of seepage, plus glued-in mouse poop, was a thoroughly unpleasant discovery. It's daft - I know the shed where the railway will end up is completely mouseproof, but it turns out the study in the house isn't! The pics don't really show the extent of the leakage, as it's mostly dried clear! Edited February 27, 2020 by Geordie Exile 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 This is the next building, viewed from the southwest, and it's looking more complex than the other three completed so far. I've spent this afternoon reading up on how a washery works: it may not make a difference to the model, but I've found the research as satisfying as the modelling itself. The amazing online archive at Durham Mining Museum has thrown up this article which describes in detail the operation of a similar washery in the Durham coalfield, complete with contemporaneous diagrams and photographs. I now understand what happens to the coal when it enters top left (the period I'm modelling has a different conveyer but the theory is the same), passes through the first screens on the top floor, then into the Baum washer below. The shale leaves the building via the two bucket conveyors onto the shutes, to be dropped into waiting wagons. Meanwhile, the slurry is piped into the centre of the cone at the top, usable coal dust returns to the dryers, water is recycled back to the washer, and the shale/clay slurry extracted to... where? Still have to figure out where that bottom pipe runs. (Another photograph shows it reentering the washery in the northern gable end. I suppose I don't really need to know how it was managed after that, but...) So, the challenges: arched windows, dammit; the three-dimensional arched support columns; the slurry cone itself and all its associated steelwork; the exterior pipework; and a working assumption that the cone is roofless, and therefore I need to fill it with manky black liquid! It also raises another question: I've thought of the third building I modelled as "the screens", but now I'm wondering whether "picking belts" is more accurate, as a diagram of the output from there refers to "best", with "trebles", "singles" and "small" being loaded from the washery. (The picture shows the washery when built in 1926: credit "Backworth, An Illustrated History of the Mines & Railways, Elliott J & Charlton D, Chilton Iron Works 1994) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Exile Posted April 19, 2020 Author Share Posted April 19, 2020 After several months with my attention elsewhere, I've had a week or so to focus on converting photos of the washery into plans on brick-embossed plastic card. The craft knife comes out tomorrow... 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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