Fenwick Pit: a North East Colliery in 2mm

[Middlepeak]

Hi Richard,

 

Just wondered if you'd considered sand? Although I model in 4mm and 3.5mm, I've found it gives a very fine texture, which also helps to bring out the detail in the track.

 

When I did my previous P4 layout, Middlepeak, I used some fine black sand, which I think came from the weight in an old washing machine, which gave an excellent representation of ash ballast. Not sure if that's as readily available these days, but might be worth a try.

 

Happy New Year when it comes,

 

Geraint

[Jan W]

Richard,

The december MRH magazine has a feature about making ballast in any colour from sand.

https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/

Seems like quite a bit of work but the result is very nice. 

 

Jan

 

Edit: your coffee ballast looks very good. It's a bit difficult to see but am I right that the loose grain effect is a bit lost because of glue or paint?

Edited December 27, 2020 by Jan W

[Geordie Exile]

16 hours ago, Middlepeak said:

Just wondered if you'd considered sand?

 

13 hours ago, Jan W said:

...am I right that the loose grain effect is a bit lost because of glue or paint?

Hi both.  Sand is a real option, which I'd not considered.  My first reaction to Geraint's post was "ah yes, but how do I colour it?" but Jan's post gives me the answer.  I'll go take a look at the link!

 

The loose grain is still pretty good - here's a picture from above (which I ought to have done in the first place).  Ignore the shiny-ness from the metallic paint, I'll fettle that with an overspray of more matt black just as soon as it stops snowing and I can get out to the shed!

 

 

Hmm, the photo appears to be only focussed on one area, dead centre - probably something to do with the camera on my phone - but that area does give a good idea of the overall effect.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Caley Jim]

Richard,

While the texture of the ballasted area between the rails is good, my memory of the ground between tracks is that it was pretty well beaten down flat by the passage of shunters etc. and certainly not as coarse as in your photos.   Instead of using spray paint, have you considered powder paints?  You can create a mixture of shades and dust that on dry, giving an uneven 'dusty' look.  I use them a lot for weathering and creating variation in the colour of yard areas, roads etc.   I'm not sure how easily available they are these days, but you can get the same effect by grinding down crayon.

 

Jim

[Geordie Exile]

I've been looking at a couple of photos of the colliery itself and you're right. The shoulders are quite coarse as there's no traffic just there, but everywhere else seems almost smooth. I think I've been aiming for what I think ballast ought to look like.

 

I'll keep at it!

[Middlepeak]

Richard,

 

Just to illustrate my previous point, here's a photo of my old layout "Middlepeak" showing the results of ash ballasting with the black sand. It was laid dry, then secured with the conventional mix of thinned PVA with a drop of washing up liquid, before weathering slightly with the airbrush.

 

[Geordie Exile]

9 hours ago, Middlepeak said:

Richard,

 

Just to illustrate my previous point, here's a photo of my old layout "Middlepeak" showing the results of ash ballasting with the black sand. It was laid dry, then secured with the conventional mix of thinned PVA with a drop of washing up liquid, before weathering slightly with the airbrush.

 

That looks much nicer! There's fine white silica sand available for aquaria, so I might get hold of some and have a play.  Appreciate the pointer.

 

R.

[CF MRC]

I find pumice powder very useful as a fill-in for badly maintained ballast.  It is so easy for ballast to be over scale. 
 

Tim

[Geordie Exile]

Revisiting the photographs, and the ballast is hard-packed and almost smooth.  I need to model what I see, not what I think it should look like!

 

[MinerChris]

Hi Richard,

 

I needed ash ballast for Callington Road - though to me ash is a lot lighter than your coal dust/cinders mix. In the end I used a base-layer of Treemendous Earth powder and not finding it quite fine enough, put a layer of 'dark grey modelling dust' from Here (no connection etc...) The effect is good enough for me, with the unevenness from the baselayer giving a hint of texture that I don't think I would have got if I had just used the fine powder and certainly better than other products that claim to be 2mm ash ballast.

 

The powders were all held down with a fine misting until wet of 'quick shine multi-surface floor finish' although other klear alternatives are available.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Chris.

Edited December 29, 2020 by MinerChris
awful spelin

[Geordie Exile]

1 hour ago, MinerChris said:

Hi Richard,

 

I needed ash ballast for Callington Road - though to me ash is a lot lighter than your coal dust/cinders mix. In the end I used a base-layer of Treemendous Earth powder and not finding it quite fine enough, put a later of 'dark grey modelling dust' from Here (no connection etc...) The effect is good enough for me, with the unevenness from the baselayer giving a hint of texture that I don;t think I would have got if I had just used the fine powder and certainly better than other products that claim to be 2mm ash ballast.

 

The powders were all held down with a fine misting unit wet of 'quick shine multi-surface floor finish' although other klear alternatives are available.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Chris.

That looks really effective, Chris, thank you. I found Chris Nevard's blog earlier today where he uses Das, and that has a nice result too.  Lots to try!

[Geordie Exile]

Well, looks like I've got my first track laid! It's glued straight onto the board, but the exchange sidings which I'm hoping it'll turn into show no cess, shoulders or ground features of any kind!

 

My plan is to make a mirror image of this board using PCB sleepers, to see if that construction method suits me. That'll give me two loops and a head shunt, which (almost) matches the original.  

 

I'll use the board to practise TOUs and wiring/isolating before making the decision about it actually forming a part of the layout.

 

[Caley Jim]

1 hour ago, Geordie Exile said:

That looks really effective, Chris, thank you. I found Chris Nevard's blog earlier today where he uses Das, and that has a nice result too.  Lots to try!

I use DAS all the time for ground surface.  If you water it down to a slurry - about the consistency of thick wallpaper paste - and then colour it with either powder or acrylic paint, you can spread it with a spatula or pallet knife and you don't have to paint it.  I've just been doing exactly that for the stretch of roadway in front of the block of buildings I'm making for Kirkallanmuir.  be aware that it takes a lot of paint to make it dark grey and it dries to a much lighter colour than the mix.

 

I also use it to 'bed in' buildings by making the building sit a little lower than the ground surface and then working the thin DAS up against them.  All my buildings are removable, so I wrap them in Cling film before bedding them in.  That way the DAS doesn't stick to the buildings.

 

Jim

[Geordie Exile]

An A3 sheet of Bob Jones' wonderfully detailed NER P4 coal wagons arrived before Christmas, and I've spent the last couple of days tackling the first one.  I struggled with the strapping, both internal and external, as each side comes as a single overlay, which you solder on then remove the 'sprue' and tags. I may resort to superglue for the next one. The unpainted result is very shiny, as I got an ultrasonic bath for Christmas. 

 

[Geordie Exile]

End stanchions added. They don't come with the kit, so I've filed down some plasticard. They ought to be finer, and riveted, but my skills don't stretch that far. I'll file them flush(ish) top and bottom tomorrow assuming the glue holds.

 

If ever something  cried out for 3D printing, it's these. Their chunkiness, rivets and tapered form in three planes don't seem to lend themselves to etching. 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Geordie Exile
Edit: Pic changed, terrible focus! I'll risk the cruelty of the close up.

[2mm Andy]

Nice work on the P4 hopper. You might want to check with Bob about the end stanchions - the kits I bought (not long after they became available) had cast whitemetal end stanchions (it may be that Bob has run out of these and can't get any cast at the moment). The stanchions do also project below the bottom of the wagon headstock - I think this was so that they could be mixed with the older style chaldron wagons used in the collieries when these wagons were first introduced.

 

The wagon below is one of the three of these that I've built so far (there are another 7 in my gloat box, along with a selection of 21t steel hoppers too). The strapping is fiddly, and I usually find at least one bit pings off when I try to remove the etch surround! One other tip - the axleboxes seemed to stick out a long way if you stack-up all the etched layers, so I omitted a few on the wagon below (you can just make out that the wagon on the right has the full number as on the etch (and not assembled very neatly either - I shall have to revisit that one). I probably ought to shape the monkey tails better too (and add the missing clutch shaft on the brake gear).

 

Andy

 

[Geordie Exile]

11 hours ago, 2mm Andy said:

Nice work on the P4 hopper. You might want to check with Bob about the end stanchions - the kits I bought (not long after they became available) had cast whitemetal end stanchions (it may be that Bob has run out of these and can't get any cast at the moment). The stanchions do also project below the bottom of the wagon headstock - I think this was so that they could be mixed with the older style chaldron wagons used in the collieries when these wagons were first introduced.

 

The wagon below is one of the three of these that I've built so far (there are another 7 in my gloat box, along with a selection of 21t steel hoppers too). The strapping is fiddly, and I usually find at least one bit pings off when I try to remove the etch surround! One other tip - the axleboxes seemed to stick out a long way if you stack-up all the etched layers, so I omitted a few on the wagon below (you can just make out that the wagon on the right has the full number as on the etch (and not assembled very neatly either - I shall have to revisit that one). I probably ought to shape the monkey tails better too (and add the missing clutch shaft on the brake gear).

 

Andy

 

That's such a neat job with the strapping, Andy!  And I did wonder about the axle boxes, as they seemed quite chunky.  I'll get in touch with Bob - the instructions do mention cast stanchions which weren't available at the time of writing, and those on your wagons look significantly less chunky than my cackhanded attempts (and frankly, I've got a sheet of these etches, and I don't fancy trying to file another 60 stanchions!)

 

Cheers, Richard.

[AlfaZagato]

If you have molding silicon, cast duplicates of your filed ones.

[Geordie Exile]

On 11/01/2021 at 22:42, 2mm Andy said:

Nice work on the P4 hopper. You might want to check with Bob about the end stanchions - the kits I bought (not long after they became available) had cast whitemetal end stanchions (it may be that Bob has run out of these and can't get any cast at the moment). The stanchions do also project below the bottom of the wagon headstock - I think this was so that they could be mixed with the older style chaldron wagons used in the collieries when these wagons were first introduced.

 

The wagon below is one of the three of these that I've built so far (there are another 7 in my gloat box, along with a selection of 21t steel hoppers too). The strapping is fiddly, and I usually find at least one bit pings off when I try to remove the etch surround! One other tip - the axleboxes seemed to stick out a long way if you stack-up all the etched layers, so I omitted a few on the wagon below (you can just make out that the wagon on the right has the full number as on the etch (and not assembled very neatly either - I shall have to revisit that one). I probably ought to shape the monkey tails better too (and add the missing clutch shaft on the brake gear).

 

Andy

 

Bob's sent me some etched stanchions: you laminate 6 together per stanchion (times 4 per wagon, times 14 wagons...) 

[Geordie Exile]

I'm horrible aware I'm bouncing from project to project!  Since Christmas, I've knocked up a shunting plank (no, I don't have a working loco to go on it yet!), built a Fencehouses P4 hopper, and started the artwork for my first wagon etch.  I've also created an etch which I hope will turn into the tall windowed building at the back of this photo:

Well, the etch arrived from PPD a couple of days ago.  I've built the concrete pillars/horizontals as a series of laminates, two or three layers deep:

(It turns out that a spare nasal swab from a lateral flow test is a pretty good solder paint brush).  The pieces to the left are the corner columns - indented for the first laminate to fit onto the lintels, and then solid for the outer laminate.  I've given the building a pretty good scrub with an electric toothbrush, but it still needs a good brush with the awful glass fibre weapon of torture.

 

And then the folding begins.

 

 

[Geordie Exile]

Well that went up with fewer swearies than I expected. And only three bits fell off.

 

The distortion is mostly the fault of the phone camera, it's squarer than it looks.  Honest.  I've just tack-soldered it for the moment.  Now to add the two layers of corner columns, painstakingly folded using my (as-yet-unpatented) clamp-n-bend-n-pray tool.

 

After that, infill the bits between the windows with brick-embossed plasticard, glaze it, floor and roof it, add the opening windows, and paint it.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Geordie Exile

[Caley Jim]

5 hours ago, Geordie Exile said:

  Now to add the two layers of corner columns, painstakingly folded using my (as-yet-unpatented) clamp-n-bend-n-pray tool.

 

Nice work, Richard.  That's basically a set of bending bars you've made there!

 

Jim

[Geordie Exile]

11 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

Nice work, Richard.  That's basically a set of bending bars you've made there!

 

Jim

 

You mean I needn't bother putting a stamp on that letter to the Patents Office, then?

[Trewisin]

Hi Richard , Ive been watching your blog for a while and you have brought back fond memories.as I come from Backworth originaly born in Wallsend but my Mothers family were from Backworth. My Grand father worked at the pit and retired afer being a miner and then working in the blacksmiths shop. From your original blog i think you also said you were from this area before going to Scootland. I am also thinking of building a layout of Backworth but i think i would need a hangar to put it in .I can remember  visiting my Grandparents home during scool holidays and on return from overseas postings (my father served in the R.A.F.) At one stage iwent to the original backworth primary school ,I can remember riding on the footplate of J94s a nd seeing the introduction of the Sentinal deisel loco before the class 14s. Ithink your doing a marvellous job keep it up would like to see somebody do a kit of the RCH wagons as they are special to the area. your P4 wagons are close. Keep up the good work.Ray.

[MinerChris]

On 24/01/2021 at 15:41, Geordie Exile said:

The distortion is mostly the fault of the phone camera, it's squarer than it looks.  Honest.  I've just tack-soldered it for the moment.  Now to add the two layers of corner columns, painstakingly folded using my (as-yet-unpatented) clamp-n-bend-n-pray tool.

 

After that, infill the bits between the windows with brick-embossed plasticard, glaze it, floor and roof it, add the opening windows, and paint it.

Hi Richard,

 

Before you go and solder up the corner pieces, would you be better soldering some 1/4" or 1/2" square section brass lengths up the inside of your corners? This might make the whole building less flimsy and liable to damage when: something gets put on it/ sat on/ looks at it funny and falls over. I would think some cross member pieces of brass probably wouldn't go amiss at reinforcing the structure either - ang give you something to place the floors on to solder to.

 

Best Regards,

 

Chris.