Children on railway lines

[Davexoc]

This cropped up earlier.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-49661930

 

The last paragraph is somewht worrying.....

[Phil Parker]

They need to be made to watch "The Finishing Line" BTF film. 

 

 

[Wickham Green]

12 hours ago, Davexoc said:

This cropped up earlier.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-49661930

 

The last paragraph is somewht worrying.....

They don't care that walking on railway tracks is illegal - and nor do I  ..................... but I know WHY it's Illegal and that's what matters - IT'S DOWN RIGHT DANGEROUS !

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

There has just been an item on the BBC about an incident at Tyne Yard where teenager was badly injured when electrocuted whilst climbing on top of a container on a wagon, (or carriage as the local council H&E would have it).

For some reason it was entirely DB's fault and they have been fined £3.7m, seemingly every inch of railway property needs to be made made 100% secure to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

It would be interesting to see the comparitive figures for trespass and injury between the UK and Spain as we have no or very little protection of railway lines over here, just seemingly more responsible parents and kids with common sense.

 

Mike.

[RedgateModels]

25 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

badly injured when electrocuted

 

Make your mind up

[woodenhead]

25 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

There has just been an item on the BBC about an incident at Tyne Yard where teenager was badly injured when electrocuted whilst climbing on top of a container on a wagon, (or carriage as the local council H&E would have it).

For some reason it was entirely DB's fault and they have been fined £3.7m, seemingly every inch of railway property needs to be made made 100% secure to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

It would be interesting to see the comparitive figures for trespass and injury between the UK and Spain as we have no or very little protection of railway lines over here, just seemingly more responsible parents and kids with common sense.

 

Mike.

It's easy to say it's the parent's fault or the kids lack common sense.

 

Did your parents know everything you did as a child?

 

Children don't understand all the dangers that face them, they learn from being told or from experience and even then they may not appreciate the danger - so it's correct the DB or whoever own a stretch of track should be responsible for maintaining reasonable barriers and security on sites.

 

I realise you cannot legislate for all eventualities but they need to take reasonable steps to secure sites.

[TheQ]

We used to play on the line all the time...occationally putting a penny on the track..

 

Mnd you there was only 1 train a day each way, we knew when it was coming, you could hear the noise from the track long before you could hear the loco (normally a 47)

 

Never did find any of my pennies....

[Reorte]

12 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I realise you cannot legislate for all eventualities but they need to take reasonable steps to secure sites.

 

Clearly the law has its own idea about what's reasonable and therefore DB has to comply with the law, but personally speaking if you don't know climbing on top of a wagon under wires is damned stupid you're not fit to be out unsupervised anyway. I'll never agree with legislating to accommodate that degree of stupidity.

[EddieB]

Compared to our childhood, youngsters are less likely to be out on their own nowadays.  However, when the “responsible” parent is fully occupied with a mobile phone (as the BBC story implies), children become unsupervised and dangers can ensue.

 

I may be being unfair - perhaps the woman was using her phone to call the police, having screamed at the boy (not her son) to get off the track and was just about to wave something red at the driver à la Jenny Agutter...

[Steven B]

Lets not forget that those old enough to know better (or who would have seen "The Finishing Line" when first released) are the biggest offenders when ever Flying Scotsman is around.

 

The Finishing Line was tame compared to "Robbie".

 

Steven B

[Jonboy]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

There has just been an item on the BBC about an incident at Tyne Yard where teenager was badly injured when electrocuted whilst climbing on top of a container on a wagon, (or carriage as the local council H&E would have it).

For some reason it was entirely DB's fault and they have been fined £3.7m, seemingly every inch of railway property needs to be made made 100% secure to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

It would be interesting to see the comparitive figures for trespass and injury between the UK and Spain as we have no or very little protection of railway lines over here, just seemingly more responsible parents and kids with common sense.

 

Mike.

 

I seem to recall this was a situation where damage to the fence and trespass incidents had repeatedly been reported to DB, and they didn’t repair the damage or take reasonable precautions to reduce the well assessed risk?

[corneliuslundie]

But why should they have to repeatedly repair a fence which has been damaged by the public?

The whole original legal intention of fencing etc on British railways has been completely altered by the courts with no change to the legislation. I am afraid that I agree with certain others on here and feel that if children trespass, cause damage etc the parents should be prosecuted.

By the way, why don't councils have to fence every road to stop trespass? Cars are far more ;likely to kill you than trains and they don't even have to stay on track.

Railways seem to be completely unfairly treated in this respect. 

Rant over, normal service resumed. Apologies if I have offended anyone.

Jonathan

[PaulRhB]

I’ve lost count of the number of daft excuse we get for trespass. I’ve even been asked if they can when on trespass duty as Scotsman was around!

Most people have no idea how quiet modern trains are on the approach and it’s often lineside residents who get caught out thinking they know the service when an extra set of empties or a test train goes through. 

Even people who think they can tell when a train approaches get caught out as a tractor ploughs a field nearby or an aircraft passes over and masks the telltale sounds. 

Graphic videos of trains hitting things and the trauma it causes should be part of the curriculum along with road safety from an early age, not just one offs.

Teach them life skills like that, taxes and pensions properly. 

[kevinlms]

16 hours ago, Davexoc said:

This cropped up earlier.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-49661930

 

The last paragraph is somewhat worrying.....

No this is the worrying couple of sentences.

 

"Phil Marsh took a photo of the youngster on the tracks in Chinnor, Oxfordshire. A woman can been seen standing nearby talking on a phone."

 

Of course the woman was on the phone, for a good reason - to report the nosey old g i t perving on the child!

[br2975]

" A survey of 1,000 teenagers across the UK carried out on behalf of Network Rail showed 18% of them did not know walking along railway tracks was illegal."

 

But they can tell you all you (don't) need to know about Fortnite, Grand Theft Auto, Britain's Got Talent or Love Island !

Edited September 12, 2019 by br2975

[Steamport Southport]

59 minutes ago, Steven B said:

Lets not forget that those old enough to know better (or who would have seen "The Finishing Line" when first released) are the biggest offenders when ever Flying Scotsman is around.

 

The Finishing Line was tame compared to "Robbie".

 

Steven B

 

I remember Robbie very vividly.

 

When they screened it at school they showed a documentary on railways featuring footage of the S&D 150th anniversary to lull you into a false sense of security. This was about the time we were all celebrating Rocket 150. Then they showed Robbie and it really shocked everyone. Must have been about 9 or 10 at the time.

 

Didn't know there was three different versions of the original though. We got the overhead electric one.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbie_(film)

 

 

 

Jason

[Neil]

2 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

...., seemingly every inch of railway property needs to be made made 100% secure to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

It would be interesting to see the comparitive figures for trespass and injury between the UK and Spain as we have no or very little protection of railway lines over here, just seemingly more responsible parents and kids with common sense.

 

Mike.

 

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

 

Clearly the law has its own idea about what's reasonable and therefore DB has to comply with the law, but personally speaking if you don't know climbing on top of a wagon under wires is damned stupid you're not fit to be out unsupervised anyway. I'll never agree with legislating to accommodate that degree of stupidity.

 

13 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

But why should they have to repeatedly repair a fence which has been damaged by the public? ....

 

I need to tell you of one of the saddest incidents I ever had a small part in. Many years ago I was a teacher in a middle school in Leeds, near to Neville Hill depot. At about 3.00pm a teenage girl who had been an ex pupil came in to the school frantic with worry. Her two year old toddler had been playing in the garden of her home, she had nipped inside to grab a coffee thinking the garden was secure. Going back into the garden her child was nowhere to be seen. She'd combed the neighbourhood before coming to the school. We looked, the child wasn't on the premises. When I got home that evening there was a piece on the local news that the child had got onto the tracks at Neville Hill through a gap in the fence and had been killed by a train. Though I'm hazy on the details after thirty years, it still haunts me . I can't imagine how it must be for the mum and her family.

[Reorte]

22 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Graphic videos of trains hitting things and the trauma it causes should be part of the curriculum along with road safety from an early age, not just one offs.

Teach them life skills like that, taxes and pensions properly. 

I've said this before but I'm not sure if graphic stuff necessarily gets through. At any rate first-hand stuff usually works a lot better. Now clearly we don't want children with first-hand experience of getting hit by trains, or of people they are close to getting hit by them but I think there are alternatives. I've got an inkling there may be a railway education section somewhere but if so it needs funding to be able to do school trips to most schools. Stick a simulator in the back of a truck and get them to brake it - maybe have something on the track around a corner so they have some idea about how late that can be seen from a 125 mph train, and how impossible it is to stop. Perhaps make some funding available for preserved railways to somehow play a part too. Just chucking out some (admittedly only casually considered) ideas I've had before there.

[Reorte]

4 minutes ago, Neil said:

I need to tell you of one of the saddest incidents I ever had a small part in. Many years ago I was a teacher in a middle school in Leeds, near to Neville Hill depot. At about 3.00pm a teenage girl who had been an ex pupil came in to the school frantic with worry. Her two year old toddler had been playing in the garden of her home, she had nipped inside to grab a coffee thinking the garden was secure. Going back into the garden her child was nowhere to be seen. She'd combed the neighbourhood before coming to the school. We looked, the child wasn't on the premises. When I got home that evening there was a piece on the local news that the child had got onto the tracks at Neville Hill through a gap in the fence and had been killed by a train. Though I'm hazy on the details after thirty years, it still haunts me . I can't imagine how it must be for the mum and her family.

Horrendous as that is exactly the same thing could happen just as easily with almost every road in the country, and there are plenty of other hazards with a lot of risk in such situations. Horrible as it is unfortunately I don't think it's fair to use that sort of incident as an argument for going to the nth degree in sealing everything up.

[Neil]

6 minutes ago, Reorte said:

Horrendous as that is exactly the same thing could happen just as easily with almost every road in the country, and there are plenty of other hazards with a lot of risk in such situations. Horrible as it is unfortunately I don't think it's fair to use that sort of incident as an argument for going to the nth degree in sealing everything up.

 

I think it's entirely fair.

 

A:- You would if you had an involvement in a similar incident.

B:- If you allow gaps then why bother with fencing at all?

C:- A comparison between road and rail is like comparing cheese with apples. Speed limit on the estate surrounding Neville Hill 30mph, line speed through Neville Hill not known but I'd assume a good deal more. Huge difference in braking distance between car and train. Road vehicles can take avoiding action.

 

 

[Reorte]

You're asking for the world to be toddler-proof - or is it just the railway? Ultimately parents have to be responsible for their children, not everyone else. Not that I'm advocating raking the mother over the coals on what would already be a horrendous experience but I really do not think it is at all fair and reasonable to expect the rest of the world to be bullet-proof to such things.

 

The road speeds may be lower but what with more roads and more cars and toddlers being what they are you sure the dangers are significantly lower? Or even various ways they can get hurt without even leaving the house... Railways are dangerous places but they're certainly not unique in that aspect. There are plenty of houses backing on to major roads and motorways, all sorts of places. I've got a canal nearby, no issue for an adult but probably just as much risk or more to a toddler as railway.

 

Edited September 12, 2019 by Reorte

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

There has just been an item on the BBC about an incident at Tyne Yard where teenager was badly injured when electrocuted whilst climbing on top of a container on a wagon, (or carriage as the local council H&E would have it).

For some reason it was entirely DB's fault and they have been fined £3.7m, seemingly every inch of railway property needs to be made made 100% secure to prevent this sort of thing happening again.

 

 

From reading the various articles on the story from 6 months ago, yes DB was at fault.

 

According to the stories there was a lack of fencing between the yard and a public walkway, a lack of signage, and DB was (or should have been aware of) a chronic trespassing issue given that local people used an abandoned signal box on the site, did graffiti on the site, and site staff had seen the trespassers and done nothing.

[Classsix T]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

 

From reading the various articles on the story from 6 months ago, yes DB was at fault.

 

According to the stories there was a lack of fencing between the yard and a public walkway, a lack of signage, and DB was (or should have been aware of) a chronic trespassing issue given that local people used an abandoned signal box on the site, did graffiti on the site, and site staff had seen the trespassers and done nothing.

I don't disagree with this as fact or as a point of view, however were there not (what used to be called) electrification flashes on the stock? Besides, dicking about on top of railway vehicles isn't ever going to end well. 

Death by misadventure perhaps, but to kick DB in the balls over it seems a bit harsh. Maybe they can counter sue NR for not painting the ole in a suitably "this is f***king dangerous" colour scheme.

 

C6T. 

[lmsforever]

As a member and past active volunteer at Chinnor I can assure everyone that the fences are checked regularily and the people in the area are good at reporting problems.It is difficult to police every foot of   fence all the time but rest assured the team do their best to keep everyone safe.

[Mallard60022]

Bringing safety into schools costs money. That money is rarely available these days. End of.

 

P