Farish Class 319

[TomE]

28 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

The £320 is the quoted RRP. They won't be on sale for that and no-one will pay that price. The usual 15% discount will make them around £275.

 

 

Rails price is £271.96 for the 319

 

Plus £17.50 for a decoder, making it £289.46 for a DCC 319.

 

My kato 800s were £178. If I want the decoder pack that’s another £44, and if I want the interior lighting that’s another £20, so £242 for a comparable DCC 800.

 

£47 difference between the two. Given the known difference in production run size between the two companies I don’t think that’s an unreasonable difference, personally.

 

Tom. 

[grahame]

19 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

Still a heck of a chunk of cash though and most layouts will need more than one realistically....

 

I guess wether it's a big chunk will depend on individuals personal discretionary spending budget for models. No doubt for some it'll be of no concern as they can easily afford it, while others will find it expensive and think twice about purchasing. But then there will also be those who think the Kato unit is dear and couldn't even afford a £100 train.

 

 

[montyburns56]

7 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

I've removed the full frontal shot - the damage hadn't been noted. It's not a production issue.

 

Was it from that time that you tried to do some nude soldering?

[Revolution Mike]

3 hours ago, fezza said:

At nearly £320 I can see these sitting on shelves for awhile. You don't have to look hard to find Farish's last 4 car emu still for sale at £120... and that came out a long time ago.

 

I get the economies of scale argument, but that is a massive difference to Kato prices and quite a big difference to Farish's former emu prices. (And bear in mind a current Farish diesel and three coaches won't set you back more than about £260).

Are we talking fair like for like comparisons? Ie new tooling, full RRP non-discounted prices for both? A 31 plus 3 x Mk2fs at full rrp would be £150 + 3*48 ie £294 so not that different to the 319 (which is newer tooling and you’d expect to sell far fewer 319s proportionally than loco plus coaches). 

 

The Kato comparison is largely irrelevant unless you’re producing 5-10 times the normal Farish production run. 

I hope that the 319 does really well (I’m looking forward to getting one or two) because if it doesn’t then it is a struggle to see how anyone can make multiple units. 

[fezza]

14 hours ago, red death said:

Are we talking fair like for like comparisons? Ie new tooling, full RRP non-discounted prices for both? A 31 plus 3 x Mk2fs at full rrp would be £150 + 3*48 ie £294 so not that different to the 319 (which is newer tooling and you’d expect to sell far fewer 319s proportionally than loco plus coaches). 

 

The Kato comparison is largely irrelevant unless you’re producing 5-10 times the normal Farish production run. 

I hope that the 319 does really well (I’m looking forward to getting one or two) because if it doesn’t then it is a struggle to see how anyone can make multiple units. 

 

Sure, but it is still £25 higher than the most expensive comparison you could find - and a lot of those rather over priced 2fs are still sitting on shelves despite them being an absolutely essential item for most modern modellers. (Dapol Mk3s can be widely had for £25 compared to Farish 2fs at around £40).

 

Locos and coaches sell a lot better than EMUs so I still think this pricing is ambitious. I guess only time will tell.

[Revolution Mike]

The only reason they are the most expensive (they aren’t as some other Farish diesels are more expensive) was that I was using the newest tooled items I could think of. Comparisons with a decade old Dapol Mk3 is not helpful as that tooling will have been paid off and tooling prices have increased considerably in that period. 

[Steven B]

There maybe Farish Mk2F FO, RFB, BSO and DBSO but try finding a TSO - I could do with another (or a pair of Mk2a TSO) but can't find one anywhere without forking out £60+ on eBay.

 

I don't think it's fair to compare the Dapol Mk3 to the Farish Mk2F - the latter has got much more detail to be fitted and five different body shells from day one. The Dapol Mk3 by comparison is much simpler - both in design and in number of parts needing putting together.

 

Has Farish gone too far with separately fitted detail? (I'm guessing its the time to put together the model that makes the biggest impact on the price we pay)

 

Personally I think a Farish Hawksworth (RRP £39.99) is a better model than the Dapol Collett (RRP £26.95). If the Hawksworth had been produced to the level of detail as the Collett and at a similar price I'm guessing most modellers would be happy. Perhaps it's time for Farish to consider an element of design clever (or at least design for simpler construction)?

 

Steven B.

[woodenhead]

16 minutes ago, Steven B said:

 

Personally I think a Farish Hawksworth (RRP £39.99) is a better model than the Dapol Collett (RRP £26.95). If the Hawksworth had been produced to the level of detail as the Collett and at a similar price I'm guessing most modellers would be happy. Perhaps it's time for Farish to consider an element of design clever (or at least design for simpler construction)?

 

 

I suspect that would be a death knell to British N gauge - the market is already small, to attract people to convert down from 00 you need quality products, and where would it leave someone like RevolutioN with their niche models if their quality was so much higher than the other manufacturers - it would look odd and turn people away from N.

 

There is nothing wrong with the models being brought out by Farish, it is just that the market isn't growing fast enough to deliver more product and cost efficiencies.

[John M Upton]

IN N scale you also have the supply oddity that many N Gaugers have cash ready to buy stock but there is hardly anything to buy, especially compared with OO for example where Bachmann seem to concentrate their efforts on the shiny new toys.

[Mike Harvey]

A class 769 (ex-Class 319) is now converted for parcels services. One for Electra Rail. @Captain Electra

 

Parcels multiple unit shown off at Euston (railmagazine.com)

[grahame]

On 14/06/2021 at 10:14, AY Mod said:

Farish have just sent through images of the livery samples.

 

 

These highly detailed, high specification models are currently projected for release in early-2022 with a RRP of £319.95 each.

 

The Class 319 specification is as follows:

 

Graham Farish N Scale

Powerful coreless motor and flywheel fitted to the MSO vehicle

Electrical pickup from all axles

Sprung Brecknell Willis or Stone Faiveley pantograph

Unobstructed interior including seat and table detail

Integral conductive couplings between vehicles

Functional multiple unit couplings at the outer ends

Directional lighting – switchable on/off via DCC or the chassis-mounted switches

Internal lighting

Speaker Fitted

Easy Access DCC decoder socket – located behind an underframe panel on the TSO vehicle

Equipped with a Next18 Decoder Socket (one decoder required) – recommended Decoder item No. 36-567A

Length 560mm (over couplings)

 

 

 

Only the Northern liveried one appears to have pick-up shoe beams on the cab end bogies.

 

 

[msw2009]

Just noticed the RRP has risen to £349.95 - £297.46 with the 15% discount at Rails, TMC, Kernow etc.  Not wholly inconsistent with current inflation rates (BoE prediction of 7.25% next month) but still painful.  Will have to have that 'do I or don't I?' debate again, although will probably reach the same conclusion I reached after the last increase.  

 

Mark 

[montyburns56]

2 hours ago, msw2009 said:

Just noticed the RRP has risen to £349.95 - £297.46 with the 15% discount at Rails, TMC, Kernow etc.  Not wholly inconsistent with current inflation rates (BoE prediction of 7.25% next month) but still painful.  Will have to have that 'do I or don't I?' debate again, although will probably reach the same conclusion I reached after the last increase.  

 

Mark 

 

I've noticed that Farish have rather sneakily recently increased the RRP for items that had been released last year such as the Class 108 DMUs. Considering that they would have been manufactured about 18 months ago, I don't know what the justification would be?

[woodenhead]

18 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

 

I've noticed that Farish have rather sneakily recently increased the RRP for items that had been released last year such as the Class 108 DMUs. Considering that they would have been manufactured about 18 months ago, I don't know what the justification would be?

Rampant inflation, rises in energy prices, a war in the Ukraine.

 

The cost of the individual item may be historic, but ongoing costs of running the company are real time and surges in energy prices and inflation will no doubt play into current prices.

[fezza]

On 12/03/2022 at 19:25, montyburns56 said:

 

I've noticed that Farish have rather sneakily recently increased the RRP for items that had been released last year such as the Class 108 DMUs. Considering that they would have been manufactured about 18 months ago, I don't know what the justification would be?

I guess they do it because they can.

 

Although if they can't sell a product at existing prices, I'm not sure how raising the price will help.

[woodenhead]

@fezza have you failed to notice all the problems in the world over the past couple of years, inflation is back, oil prices, wars, pandemics?

 

Food is going up in price, electronics going up in price, travel is going up in price and especially noticeable is the cost of energy.

 

Or do you think Bachmann operate in some sort of alternate universe where none of these factors matter and they just want ever more profit for their jets, boats and mansions?

[fezza]

57 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

@fezza have you failed to notice all the problems in the world over the past couple of years, inflation is back, oil prices, wars, pandemics?

 

Food is going up in price, electronics going up in price, travel is going up in price and especially noticeable is the cost of energy.

 

Or do you think Bachmann operate in some sort of alternate universe where none of these factors matter and they just want ever more profit for their jets, boats and mansions?

Dapol must be in another universe then.

[woodenhead]

26 minutes ago, fezza said:

Dapol must be in another universe then.

An N Dapol class 22 - a Dave Jones era model - 153 pounds on the Dapol website, a Farish class 24 which is a similar vintage is 139 pounds.

[fezza]

Latest Dapol 156 (with full interior) £129.

Latest Farish 150 (without full interior) £204

 

Big difference in price. No obvious reason other than greed. If anything the new liveries on the 156 are more complex, especially the Ravenglass one.

 

 

[woodenhead]

@fezzaAs long as Dapol get the livery correct for example the BR logo on the Strathclyde model.

 

We could go on all day selecting individual models to compare and contrast and we would never agree, so I will leave you to it.

[Steadfast]

5 hours ago, fezza said:

No obvious reason other than greed. If anything the new liveries on the 156 are more complex, especially the Ravenglass one.

Not necessarily. The Farish 150s (all liveries) are Tampo printed, each element requiring a separate pass.

Photo Real elements often use a different technique,  where the whole picture is printed direct to the model, akin to how your ink jet printer works on paper. If so, it's less complex than tampo. 

 

Not being funny, but looking at the washed out colours on the printed section, I'd rather pay Farish prices for a model that looks right. Also, the Dapol 156 is rather crude compared to the 150, so perhaps that's where the extra value in the Farish model can be found. Neither is cheap, but I'd rather pay mote for a better model!

 

 

Jo

Edited March 17, 2022 by Steadfast

[John M Upton]

But if the area/period you are modelling only saw Class 150's and never a 156, the comparison is worthless, you are going for the 150 regardless.

[fezza]

3 hours ago, Steadfast said:

Not necessarily. The Farish 150s (all liveries) are Tampo printed, each element requiring a separate pass.

Photo Real elements often use a different technique,  where the whole picture is printed direct to the model, akin to how your ink jet printer works on paper. If so, it's less complex than tampo. 

 

Not being funny, but looking at the washed out colours on the printed section, I'd rather pay Farish prices for a model that looks right. Also, the Dapol 156 is rather crude compared to the 150, so perhaps that's where the extra value in the Farish model can be found. Neither is cheap, but I'd rather pay mote for a better model!

 

 

Jo

 

Fair enough and each to their own - although how a model with false windows to disguise an internal motor can be regarded as better beats me. Plus the Farish's provincial 150 is the wrong colour blue as many have already remarked.

 

The Dapol 156 has been widely praised in its various iterations - I've never heard any significant criticism before. Very pleased with my three.

[Davexoc]

21 hours ago, fezza said:

The Dapol 156 has been widely praised in its various iterations - I've never heard any significant criticism before. Very pleased with my three.

 

Well they have never managed to get the numbers the right size or font, and that goes for a lot of their products.

The underframe of the 156 is crude, over-wide in places, and solid to hide the mechanism, so which looks better, that or the slight intrusion of the mech in a couple of windows?

Personally, I prefer the latter because most of the time you can't see in the windows, whereas the underframe is more visible as it passes you by.

[grahame]

Rumour has it that the 319s have arrived at Barwell.

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by grahame